Melting fuse plastic?

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:22 am

I found a wierd electrical bug tonight.

Because my engine/bay is all custom, there's a single relay that fires up the electrics of the engine/ECU etc. I have this relay triggered by an IGN signal (discovered a nice 12v ignition feed to the wiper motor when I did the conversion - relay is on same side)

Anyways, by tapping in to the same spot to power the thermo temp switch (the probe type) it only comes on with the ignition, this is how I have had it wired for the last 12 months. But when playing around tonight by manually turning the switch to test the fans I noticed that when the fans turn off, it was triggering the prior mentioned relay somehow, even though it was already engaged.

Though that's not the wierd part lol. I thought the fans seemed lazy when turning on considering my new super wiring. In an effort to eliminate the weird bug above, I connected the thermo switch directly to the 4G cable. Well, the fans start with so much punch they near on roll the 4Runner over hehe!

Like I said I had always had it wired as described, so I wonder if that had something to do with the melting wires and fuses to.

But, I don't really get what was going on. I measured the power at the thermo switch and it was quiet low (11.something v.) It's output is simply the trigger for the fan relays though, which should be just on or off yeah? So why did connecting the temp switch to a beefy power supply make the fans run twice as fast (literally) even though it's only triggering the relays?

Post by **-Scott-** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:44 am

I really don't know what's going on; do you have your fans wired in a two speed arrangement? If so, you might normally only see them start in low speed mode, and this "bug" is causing them to start up in high speed.

Post by **stuee** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:21 am

Hmm. This is why diagrams are important to make up because its quite difficult to follow what you said.

If the thermo switch drives a relay though I dont see how it could be a two speed arrangement unless you've got a resistor or other device in there we dont know about.

Possibly you've wired up the relays incorrectly and the input feed is actually going into the power in pin while the nice chunky supply cables are on the switch pin, leaving the relay in the always on position, supplied by your wiper motors wiring.

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:24 am

You were right Stuee. Lesson learned, avoid wiring up relays under torchlight after midnight in a rush.

I had the engine and fan relays wired with the trigger lines to the 12v feed pins oops. Feel like a noob now!

All is good all sorted now though. Even finally wired in a switch to manually turn off the fans for water etc.

Have got some before and after pics I'll upload soon.

Thanks for the tips guys!

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:01 pm

Okay as promised.

The old set up. Bare in mind that the red 12g wire and the hanging relays are from a temp fix to the fans etc from the weekend prior, making it look extra bad. Still you can see how shocking two years of join over the top ends up with new accessories! The melting fuse in question is dead center of the pic.

After a weekends effort. I put all the HID headlight shit and most of the big wiring/distribution in the actual gaurd, so it benefits by staying clean and dry! (forgot to take a bloody pic before putting gaurd on!)

Because I managed to get it all under the lip of the edge of the bay, I'm thinking of knocking up a sheet of tin to cover them so it'll be a nice flush black finish on the inner gaurd. I can't believe how much room it free'd up.

Post by **stuee** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:55 pm

Massive improvement mate. Just make sure if you put the tin on that it doesn't act as a trap for mud.

I'd like to run all the main wiring behind my guard but atm I'm to chicken shit to take it off

Maybe when I cut it up for flares (edit* corrected spelling) I wont worry about it not looking right again

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:44 pm

Heh it was pretty easy to realign it, under the panel bolts there was no blue paint so I simply did it back up so the paint looked perfect for all the bolts/tabs.

Because I can't afford some HID's for the spotlights, I've started beefing them up to make them a bit more comparable to the headlights. They're the already impressive Nitestalker 170's, the metal body type.

I'm looking at trying some 130w white globes even though they're probably no different to 100w. But for that I'm beefing up the wiring too.

Stock Nitestalker wire leaves a bit to be desired

And my new mock up, which is a bit temp. Going tomorrow to try get a right angle connector like original, though with this set up they still fit in the housing okay and I closed the gap on the female plug so they hold the globe nice and tight. The core of the new wire is as thick as the outside of the stock one.

Post by **stuee** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:17 am

Provided you've got that back all the way to the battery that will be a big improvement. Have you tried them out on just the new wiring alone?

How long did it take you to get the quaters back off then back on??

When I can afford it I will replace my IPF's with some sort of HID's. I like the ones from Hobzee but they're still a long way off

I found a big improvement with my headlights after new wiring.

Further on from previous discussion here though I am going to look at separating the supply to the thermos and the lights (its easy cause I just cut the tabs I welded together on the fuse distribution block and there's a cable on each side anyway). Basically as opposed to sharing twin 8g's they will get an individual 6g each. This way any voltage drop due resistance in the cable will be limited to only the headlights or the thermos not both. The only voltage drop that will effect both the lights and the thermos is a voltage drop at the battery (only when the alternator isn't pumping out enough current). That's my thinking anyway.

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:09 am

Haven't tried em yet, ran out of normal connectors as well lol.

Quarter wise it didn't take that long, maybe 10-15 each way. I have done it before though, it's not hard. Having said that, I've only done it on a 4Runner and it's quiet simple. Take the plastic weather gaurd off from underneath, then just keep undoing bolts till it comes loose.

Website · Post by **murcod** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 pm

A tip Nemesis- go out to Jaycar and buy a proper ratcheting style crimping tool

. Otherwise you will run into issues with those lugs you've crimped in the future.

Something like this http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.as ... rm=KEYWORD

Dick Smith should also sell something similar.

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:37 pm

Thanks mate, I actually bought a decent Narva one today because yeah I had just been using pliers (can't find my old crimpers.)

Never seen ratcheting ones before, never mind, two hands can do alot of damage still lol.

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:06 pm

Hehe you want overkill, here's my spotlight harness I've made up

Oh and I forgot to add re fans: When the fans would turn on in traffic say, it used to take around 2 mins before they switched off again. With my new wiring they take around 40 seconds

Post by **stuee** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:20 pm

-Nemesis- wrote: Oh and I forgot to add re fans: When the fans would turn on in traffic say, it used to take around 2 mins before they switched off again. With my new wiring they take around 40 seconds

My fans are switching on for short periods too atm. My new controller I'm building is going to have the fans come on in stages (ie 1 fan then 2) to try and cut down on the high rate of switching and hopefully maintain a more stable temperature..

Website · Post by **murcod** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:21 pm

Stuee, I don't know if you're seen this link - http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-vit ... fan-2.html , it's how I did mine.

I haven't got shots of the relay box on there but the circuit diagram and controllers I'm using are. I can get very fine control over the temps with the setup- you can't even see the temp gauge move at all. High speed rarely comes on unless it's over 30 degrees.

Nice work with the improvements Nemesis. It's amazing the difference even 0.2V drop will make to electric fans.

Post by **stuee** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:24 pm

Jeeze it took me a while looking at it to see you were running them in parallel then switching to series at a higher voltage.

Brilliant idea that I will probably be pinching. I've just got to modify my newly created fuse box now :(

I can run the cables through the guard at the same time

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:24 pm

For the record, a typical negative switching relay set up for spotties doesn't work when the factory harness is plugged into a HID harness. Everything worked great, till I turned the headlights off and happened to switch the spotlight switch inside on, which turned the headlights on lol! I assume this somehow bridges power accross the relay sending power to the HID relay, or similar, either way it wouldn't work.

I couldn't find any suitable signal wires in the HID harness to use for hi beam spotties. Ended up going with the stock wiring, just tapping into the headlight constant 12v and the hi beam earth circuit, each of which goes to the 85 and 86 pins to switch the relay on with hi beam.

Post by **stuee** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:08 am

murcod wrote:Stuee, I don't know if you're seen this link - http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-vit ... fan-2.html , it's how I did mine.

I haven't got shots of the relay box on there but the circuit diagram and controllers I'm using are. I can get very fine control over the temps with the setup- you can't even see the temp gauge move at all. High speed rarely comes on unless it's over 30 degrees.

Nice work with the improvements Nemesis. It's amazing the difference even 0.2V drop will make to electric fans.

When your running the fans in series murcod do they still suck the same amount of juice? ie are they still pulling 30 amps each totaling 60amps?

I realize they are pulling less voltage and therefore be running slower and possibly pulling less current but to what extent I wouldn't know with out testing. From looking at the diagram I guess they aren't blowing you 30 amp fuse when running in series.

My concern is that my current wiring wont be adequate, i could upgrade to 8g to the fans but I've only just done it all. Mind you I've already started designing a compact relay+breaker box that ill mount right next to the fans to drop wiring distances

Website · Post by **murcod** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:11 pm

stuee wrote:
murcod wrote:Stuee, I don't know if you're seen this link - http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-vit ... fan-2.html , it's how I did mine.

I haven't got shots of the relay box on there but the circuit diagram and controllers I'm using are. I can get very fine control over the temps with the setup- you can't even see the temp gauge move at all. High speed rarely comes on unless it's over 30 degrees.

Nice work with the improvements Nemesis. It's amazing the difference even 0.2V drop will make to electric fans.
When your running the fans in series murcod do they still suck the same amount of juice? ie are they still pulling 30 amps each totaling 60amps?

I realize they are pulling less voltage and therefore be running slower and possibly pulling less current but to what extent I wouldn't know with out testing. From looking at the diagram I guess they aren't blowing you 30 amp fuse when running in series.

My concern is that my current wiring wont be adequate, i could upgrade to 8g to the fans but I've only just done it all. Mind you I've already started designing a compact relay+breaker box that ill mount right next to the fans to drop wiring distances

Yes, they will draw significantly less current. I haven't measured so can't give an accurate figure.

Post by **stuee** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:41 pm

murcod wrote:Yes, they will draw significantly less current. I haven't measured so can't give an accurate figure.

Fantastic.

I'll start a new thread soon to save hijacking Nemisis's thread

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:21 pm

Hehe that's okay, mines solved now. Cant wait till tonight to test the spotties.

I ended up earthing the fans and the spotties directly to the chassis at the nearest point. I've then doubled up and run 2x 6mm2 wires (taped together to form one) from the same bolt directly to the battery negative.

I even re-did the air con fan wiring today with the same big wire (thank you mr employer hehe) as my condensor is under the rear of the 4Runner. They sound like they're spinning alot faster too. This is now one low voltage drop 4WD hehe...

Post by **-Nemesis-** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:48 am

With the same el cheapo blue tinged 100w halogens (ebay special) the spotties are probably 100% better already with the new wiring! You can really tell they're on now, the light is still the yellow temperature compared to the HID headlights but i'm happy. Hopefully my 'german' 130w super whites come today to test out.

Post by **gp339gm339** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:53 pm

RE Fuse panel,

The navara fuse panels are crap

I have started using marine grade fuses panels at work.

Depending on your power requirements they are great, plus as they are designed for marine use they can get wet.

see
http://www.keoghsmarine.com.au/product_ ... ductID=633

Post by **+dj_hansen+** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:59 pm

Looking good Nem

for a neat wiring job, have a look at DAZ's lux-bob thread here, and ozrunner buildup thread on toyotasurf forum, both have created cover panels for the wiring looms and way cool

For another idea for an earthing point, i managed to acquire a nice brass terminal strip from an electrician mate with various sized cable holes and about 300mm long, cut into three and screwed to the body, voila nice neat earth point rather than 15 wires hanging off 1 bolt

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Melting fuse plastic?

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