Chinese vs ARB Locker video

[Dozoor]

Daniel ,

I was wondering if you guys have a list of axle breaking torque
for most of the ome axles .
I think it would be a great to be able to do a quick comparison.
Realising some axles seem to be designed more for cycling
resistance, it would still provide readers with an idea of the improvments
they would achieve when doing diff swaps, such as suzuki to lux-- MQ-k,
Rover to Toy--gq-u ect, choice of diffs for buggy builds ect.

[berad]

Parts backup is an excellent thing to have.

I went to ARB to get a new air fitting nut and olive so I could connect the air line to my locker.

I went to head office in Kilsyth too.
They didn't have the part I wanted on it's own it was only available in a kit form that cost me I think $40 at the time, which is about one 30th of the cost of a whole locker, I got 1 fitting complete with olive, a piece of pneumatic hose and some other little bits that I didn't need. About $8.00 worth retail IMO.

Cheers

for olives pneamatic shops for the win. they do it because they can i guess, just like the pinion gears cant be bought seperatly in the locker i own bringing the price from $113 to $400, granted you get the sidegears, shafts, washers, gears etc, but those components in my case could be cleaned up and reused. Which i find a bit rough but once again, what can you do .

Either way i own 2 of them and so do 1000's of other trucks theres always going to be issues with a few of them.

More friendly staff would be a bonus though, quick to jump down my throat that i wrecked something and gave me the well toughshiit it will be fixed when its fixed, until i handed a reciept over showing it was not even a month old, and their attitude toward me changed dramaticly. Granted alot of people would go in there huffing and puffing when it was user error or installed wrong but to treat everyone as if they know nothing is wrong, when you own the market i guess you can.

[dbongard]

Whoa! ...there's allot of info asked for in there.

First of all, axles-aint-axles, and even 2 shafts from the same manufacturer with the same spline count but from 2 different models or years have shown to sometimes use different materials and/or heat treat process yielding varying torque results. And we have probably broken more shafts in the lab than almost anyone out there, but we are a long way from having broken everything.
And from our testing, performance aftermarket shafts have proven to offer an improvement of anywhere from double the breaking torque of your factory shafts down to just over 50%, and therefore can represent a possible downgrade.

Just like so many things in drive train it seems that you will get what you pay for, and the aftermarket shafts that come cheap but have a big full colour pic of a monster truck or something on the box are probably going to disappoint you.

One recommendation from our testing over the years is that gun drilling shafts is highly under-rated.

Now, as far as the pros and cons of different diff swaps goes, there would be far higher authorities on that subject on Outerlimits than me. I'm aware of some of the stregths and weaknesses from a diff and axle shaft perspective, but there are still hubs, spring hangers, ring and pinions, driveline angles, heat generation, track width, etc, etc to deal with. The guys who build and run comp vehicles would be the ones to cover swap recommendations from all the key angles.

But if you have any specific questions on a specific upgrade than PM me and I'll try to help if I can.

-daniel
AIR LOCKER

Daniel ,

I was wondering if you guys have a list of axle breaking torque
for most of the ome axles .
I think it would be a great to be able to do a quick comparison.
Realising some axles seem to be designed more for cycling
resistance, it would still provide readers with an idea of the improvments
they would achieve when doing diff swaps, such as suzuki to lux-- MQ-k,
Rover to Toy--gq-u ect, choice of diffs for buggy builds ect.

[nottie]

ARB are nothing more but rip offs.

who even shops there ???

Well Money killer i would assume since you are from caboolture then you would be talking about the ARB stockist over on airodrome rd near maccas??
They are not a ARB store just a stockist. So maybe your low opinion is of them and not ARB in general.[/quote]

[nottie]

If we could just put this much effort into a comparison between the Air Locker and its real competitors and answer the TJM vs ARB debate... (web jockey opinions dont count)

- David.

Didnt think you were able to buy a Pro locker at the moment or in the last 12 months for that matter. So you would be talking about a comparison to a macnamara locker and an ARB i assume??
My money will allways be on an ARB. They have been at it for a long time and have and still are ( in this thread) proven that they are constantly looking to improve on it. Along with tires i think they are the single most important upgrade to any 4wd.
Cheers Jamie

[joeblow]

ok......seeming how this thread is low on tech, but high on bitching on about shite i will try to add some info from my experiences.

many years ago myself and a friend were doing a well known hard track in vic when my ring and pinion let go( my fault, did not pre-load correctly ). we had to turn around and go back down, but due to the track conditions etc i could not remove the rear tailshaft, so i had to keep power to the busted rear. once down and able to remove the tailshaft i can tell you there were no teeth left on the pinion or ring gear, was very messy comming down.

i thought 'bugger' there goes my locker, buggered because of all the busted crap that contaminated it. the following monday at my workshop i removed the diff with the idea of having to re-build the air locker, but, lucky for me, not the case. it had put up with the failure and continued to work. the materials being of such high quality that they recieved very little scoring. a clean out and some new bolts and locking tabs, along with diff gears and she was back on the road. same thing has happened on the boys trips to tassie, and once again the airlocker has recieved little or no damage because of contaminants. (many thanks to DAMO and the guys for parts/ repairs).

to think of the stuff we do, and combine it with a locker of inferior design, i'm sure would lead us to be very unhappy on pulling down of a busted diff. and like i have said before, is not a chance myself and others i know are willing to take.

[nottie]

We have near the same type of incident with a pinion letting go on the front of a 45 with 60 series diffs. It dont nothing more then a few scratches in the side of the air locker.

[ferrit]

We have near the same type of incident with a pinion letting go on the front of a 45 with 60 series diffs. It dont nothing more then a few scratches in the side of the air locker.

The locker in my rear diff is a very early design- early 90's hilux air locker.

its been through at least one catastrophic blowup- there are MASSIVE scores in the side of the locker case, but it still works perfectly as designed! Even when my the bolts on my crownwheel backed out anywhere between 2-10mm, it still didnt damage the locker- we were expecting the bolt holes to oval out- because i must have done about 5000kms on that diff like that, but again, nothng happened to it!

Whenever i get a new 4wd, ARB lockers will be going in front and rear!

[Dirty]

Didnt think you were able to buy a Pro locker at the moment or in the last 12 months for that matter. So you would be talking about a comparison to a macnamara locker and an ARB i assume??
My money will allways be on an ARB. They have been at it for a long time and have and still are ( in this thread) proven that they are constantly looking to improve on it. Along with tires i think they are the single most important upgrade to any 4wd.
Cheers Jamie

Well there you go. I am sure I was pricing up a MacNamra/TJM for the GU only around 6 months ago, but doesn't surprise me that TJM has given up on it. The Air Locker would be a very, if not extremely hard product to take any market share from, as it is proven and there is no real reason not to buy it. And I am one that agrees that ARB gear is expensive, but also good value for the price.

But this is another thread where the only real substance in it is that we are all pissed with ARB as a brand, but love their product so we drag ourselves back to the stores when we have to.

Last time I spoke with a ARB retailer I was need of help in Tassie on a family holiday and because the 10min job was going to take them to 5:05pm and 5:00 was knock off time they turned me away. And although this is the worse run-in I have had with an ARB branded store, it is not the only one.

It will be interesting in the years to come, as there are now some products out there that will offer some choice against some of the ARB product.

- David.

[nottie]

I dont know if they have given up on it or there are production issues.

I dont very often get into an ARB store but i do beleive the Air locker is value for money. Think about it. Apart from oil how often do you have to "service it" in any way. What it does for your vehicle as far as more controled driving, meaning less damage.

[Mick.]

I dont know if they have given up on it or there are production issues.

I dont very often get into an ARB store but i do beleive the Air locker is value for money. Think about it. Apart from oil how often do you have to "service it" in any way. What it does for your vehicle as far as more controled driving, meaning less damage.

As far as i'm aware it's production issues although i've been hearing this for over 12 months. I've currently got them in my patrol and would like to get them for my new rig i'm building but I cant see that happening now. If they haven't sorted there shit out by now I don't think they ever will.

Cheers Mick.

[djroberts]

"There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey."

- John Ruskin; English writer and critic of art, architecture, and society, 1819-1900.

[bowtie landie]

I dont know if they have given up on it or there are production issues.

I dont very often get into an ARB store but i do beleive the Air locker is value for money. Think about it. Apart from oil how often do you have to "service it" in any way. What it does for your vehicle as far as more controled driving, meaning less damage.

As far as i'm aware it's production issues although i've been hearing this for over 12 months. I've currently got them in my patrol and would like to get them for my new rig i'm building but I cant see that happening now. If they haven't sorted there shit out by now I don't think they ever will.

Cheers Mick.

TJM found that they did not have as much control of the manufacturing process as they would have liked - being as the ProLockers were being made in Melbourne and TJM is based in Brisbane. This was not only for the existing ProLocker part numbers, but also for the new ones that they were trying to get on the market.

They looked at the problem for some time knowing that if they seemed to take the product off the market soon after it was implemented then it wouldn't look good and many rumours would start.

They have faith in the product but decided that, in the interests of quality control, they would build a complete plant up at their head office in Geebung, and have hired the services of a driveline engineer (from Germany I heard) to head up the plant. This would enable them to iron out any bugs or identify problems sooner if they had alot closer control over the manufacturing.

So I have heard anyway.

Peter K.

[coxy321]

Strange, but feasible.

[money_killer]

so have anyone bought and tried these chinese air lockers ???

[dumbdunce]

so have anyone bought and tried these chinese air lockers ???

Yes, ARB has - they even made a video

[money_killer]

so have anyone bought and tried these chinese air lockers ???

Yes, ARB has - they even made a video

lol you know wat i mean.............

[bigbluemav]

so have anyone bought and tried these chinese air lockers ???

Yes, ARB has - they even made a video

lol you know wat i mean.............

There was a guy with a GQ (pig something or something pig) that said he was going to install a set and test them hard.

Anyone heard anything from him?

[bowtie landie]

One of the competitors in Tough Tracks was running one in the front of a GQ MWB (SWB with rear long arm kit etc.) with TB42 efi and 35" Centipedes and he gives it shite. He hasn't broken it - yet.

Peter K.

[money_killer]

interesting maybe they arent that bad .............

[xenith]

DID NO ONE ELSE NOTICE that there was a massive bronze bush around the bearing mount . when the axle shaps like this and yes i have seen a fue they blow the bearing mount and bearing apart there is no driving it home

[nottie]

I dont know if they have given up on it or there are production issues.

I dont very often get into an ARB store but i do beleive the Air locker is value for money. Think about it. Apart from oil how often do you have to "service it" in any way. What it does for your vehicle as far as more controled driving, meaning less damage.

As far as i'm aware it's production issues although i've been hearing this for over 12 months. I've currently got them in my patrol and would like to get them for my new rig i'm building but I cant see that happening now. If they haven't sorted there shit out by now I don't think they ever will.

Cheers Mick.

TJM found that they did not have as much control of the manufacturing process as they would have liked - being as the ProLockers were being made in Melbourne and TJM is based in Brisbane. This was not only for the existing ProLocker part numbers, but also for the new ones that they were trying to get on the market.

They looked at the problem for some time knowing that if they seemed to take the product off the market soon after it was implemented then it wouldn't look good and many rumours would start.

They have faith in the product but decided that, in the interests of quality control, they would build a complete plant up at their head office in Geebung, and have hired the services of a driveline engineer (from Germany I heard) to head up the plant. This would enable them to iron out any bugs or identify problems sooner if they had alot closer control over the manufacturing.

So I have heard anyway.

Peter K.

Perhaps they should have them built by ARB

[bowtie landie]

Perhaps they should have them built by ARB

Funny you should say that - the wiring looms are exactly the same - same colours, terminals, wiring diagram - everything.

[nissanbender]

[quote="bowtie landie"]One of the competitors in Tough Tracks was running one in the front of a GQ MWB (SWB with rear long arm kit etc.) with TB42 efi and 35" Centipedes and he gives it shite. He hasn't broken it - yet.

Peter K.[/quote]Hi peter and all ,That would be my shorty that peter has mentioned and yes i do drive it bloody hard -I have been running the locker since the start of the year and have not had any problems even running 4.6s and treated CVs.The guys that are bringing the lockers in have been nothing but helpfull.Steve

[GRIMACE]

One of the competitors in Tough Tracks was running one in the front of a GQ MWB (SWB with rear long arm kit etc.) with TB42 efi and 35" Centipedes and he gives it shite. He hasn't broken it - yet.

Peter K.

Hi peter and all ,That would be my shorty that peter has mentioned and yes i do drive it bloody hard -I have been running the locker since the start of the year and have not had any problems even running 4.6s and treated CVs.The guys that are bringing the lockers in have been nothing but helpfull.Steve

Will be interesting to see how long it takes to wear! I am even interested to see what the diff oil looks like after some use.

[KiwiBacon]

DID NO ONE ELSE NOTICE that there was a massive bronze bush around the bearing mount . when the axle shaps like this and yes i have seen a fue they blow the bearing mount and bearing apart there is no driving it home

So once you've done an axle in an ARB locker, then you're up for a new diff carrier and can't drive home anyway?

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Daniel - thank you for your comments.
I appreciate why you so rarely post and well done for staying above this mess.
I think you guys do great work and make a top notch product.

The tradeoffs I am willing to make are why I am always willing to consider alternates. Ultimate strength is not a selling point for me. Weight, price, appropriate lifespan, brilliant design - these are the things that hold my attention.

My cruiser will be dead by the time it's 30yo most likely, possibly less. For me, it has to be as good as the OEM part, with additional functionality that I am after, but need last no longer. Hence why this was an interestign thread.

Paul

[dumbdunce]

DID NO ONE ELSE NOTICE that there was a massive bronze bush around the bearing mount . when the axle shaps like this and yes i have seen a fue they blow the bearing mount and bearing apart there is no driving it home

So once you've done an axle in an ARB locker, then you're up for a new diff carrier and can't drive home anyway?

unlikely. of the full floating toyota axles I've seen fail, shear off neatly at the drive flange, right at the outer end, so pulling it out is a doddle. regardless, it's a full floater, you can pull the whole third member out and still drive home. the semi floaters tend to break at the end of the spline or through the spline, but they don't tend to immediately take out the bearing with them; the spline is supported in the side gear, which is supported in the end of the hemisphere, which is supported in the bearing, the axle gives up long before there is enough stress to deform the bearing let alone the outer bearing support. regardless, it's a semi floater, you're not driving very far with a broken axle before the wheel falls off unless you have a spare axle with you, all set up with a brake and bearing on it to install.

in either scenario, if the diff casing was damaged or destroyed, they are virtually free, I throw them away constantly because the cheapest way to re-gear a diff is you get a second hand "good" one and re-race it + install the locker out of the busted one. a busted case is inevitable going to mean broken gears, so a complete second hand diff is the replacement you need.

[xenith]

KiwiBacon wrote:
xenith wrote:
DID NO ONE ELSE NOTICE that there was a massive bronze bush around the bearing mount . when the axle shaps like this and yes i have seen a fue they blow the bearing mount and bearing apart there is no driving it home


So once you've done an axle in an ARB locker, then you're up for a new diff carrier and can't drive home anyway?


unlikely. of the full floating toyota axles I've seen fail, shear off neatly at the drive flange, right at the outer end, so pulling it out is a doddle. regardless, it's a full floater, you can pull the whole third member out and still drive home. the semi floaters tend to break at the end of the spline or through the spline, but they don't tend to immediately take out the bearing with them; the spline is supported in the side gear, which is supported in the end of the hemisphere, which is supported in the bearing, the axle gives up long before there is enough stress to deform the bearing let alone the outer bearing support. regardless, it's a semi floater, you're not driving very far with a broken axle before the wheel falls off unless you have a spare axle with you, all set up with a brake and bearing on it to install.

so they say that they are using a stock axle and if you look at 2:10 you can see that the axle is bolted to the test rig as it would be if it was fitted to the hub and it still brakes near the bearing mount. then look at 2:13 you can see the splinter that has come off the side of the axle and jammed between the axle and the bearing mount and if was not for the brass collar would have destroyed the mount and bearing . if you need more proof after lots of hammering they give up trying to get the axle out and pull the locker apart to prove there is no damage . then press out the axle . as for pulling out the third member so it can be driven how are you going to do that if you can not get the axle out . if you do get it out then how is this different to what you need to do if the china one brakes so you can drive it . in saying all this i have front and rear arb lockers in my nissan but a also take a spare locker and axle with me when we go to comps and the parts for the locker are very cheaply priced so for me it's arb thanks

[Mick.]

Perhaps they should have them built by ARB

Funny you should say that - the wiring looms are exactly the same - same colours, terminals, wiring diagram - everything.

No there not exactly the same.

Cheers Mick.