Mog axles

Post by **RANUKI** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:21 pm

Just thought I'de ask the question, if people could buy mog diffs (404) with the pinion conversion for say $4k steer and $3-4k for non steer, Who would want a set..(all have lockers of course)

Hyperthetically of course

bEN

Post by **highrr** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:49 pm

I would

Post by **80diesel4play** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:45 pm

Hello bank manager.... :lol:

Goodbye missus' :finger:

I'm going wheelin'!

Post by **N*A*M** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 6:33 pm

personally no but i can see how quite a few others might be keen. i think you may need to be more competitive with pricing though. but the pinion conversion is cool.

good luck dude!

Post by **RUFF** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:53 pm

RANUKI wrote:Just thought I'de ask the question, if people could buy mog diffs (404) with the pinion conversion for say $4k steer and $3-4k for non steer, Who would want a set..(all have lockers of course)

Hyperthetically of course

bEN

The pinion conversion is not going to make for a big selling point. If you could convert the front housing to RH side drop you would sell more. Most transfers are RH drop.

Post by **RANUKI** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:37 am

RUFF wrote:The pinion conversion is not going to make for a big selling point. If you could convert the front housing to RH side drop you would sell more. Most transfers are RH drop.

Good piont Ruff hadn't even thought about that.. See i knew this question would raise some points.. Shall speak to the importer I know they do custom conversions just how much$$$$ he going to sting for that.

Cheers,
bEN

Post by **Strange Rover** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:42 pm

Most people think that mogs are cool but they are a very difficult axle to build around. Mainly because of the 4.5in portal and because the pinion centre line in only 100mm off the axle centre line.

Once most people see in person how big the axle is they realise its probably to difficult to use them.

To get a quick idea of the size problems jump under you rigs and measure above your current front diff 125mm all over cause this is where the top of the mog diff will be at your current ride height. And then work out where the pinion will sit. The centre line of the pinion is 100mm to the left of centre and the pinion section is basically 125mm diameter and is about 450mm long from the axle centre line. The pinion is where most of the problems lie.

In the mogrover the engine has basically been lifted over 5inches and mover back over 10inches from where it would have been with conventional axles and its also lent over at an angle to get the sump away from the pinion. The sump has also been cut in half for clearance also.

This is why my rig is the only one with mogs. When people saw it in the mag there was lots of interest by lots of people to get mogs (which are available in Aust) but nobody has ever got past the thinking about it stage to my knowledge.

Sam

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:17 pm

The volvo portals are a lot easier to fit in, everything is almost in the right place. And mog 404's will probably be far too wide for most people's rigs. Volvo's are narrower. And for $7+k - without all the other conversion bits, you may as well buy Maxi-Drive portals - not as strong, but since you save a huge amount of unsprung weight it will make breakage less likely.

Post by **Loanrangie** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:03 pm

I'm with Isuzurover, the volvo portals are a much better size and would require much lees engineering to fit to a Rangie and you could probably get them cheaper to.

Post by **Strange Rover** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 10:14 pm

The only problem with the Volvo portals is that basically they are a dead axle (this is my understanding). Nobody is rebuilding these axles and you carnt buy new replacement parts.

With the mogs you can buy fully rebuilt axles in a crate.

Sam

Post by **RANUKI** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:14 am

Thanks fore the info Strange Rover, just got the plans of them thismorning and yeah they are big.. Back to drawing board as they say, nothings impossible but yeah there are better options i think to. Reality is i like to keep everything landrover if i can. They have tuff stuff you just have to track it down..

Thanks Guys

bEN

Post by **wilsby** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:09 am

I think the Volvos aren't totally dead. Brake shoes are LR stuff. Seals for brake drums an some other stuff are supposedly available from normal Volvo dealers. Some things may be hard to source, but the C303 and C306 donor vehicles are still in use by the military, so there should be parts available. It may be expensive, but so are new Mog parts...

I bought a rebuilt set for about AU$ 3000, and that is considered a premium price for good condition. Granted, they are hard to find even here in Sweden, but the laws of supply and demand don't seem to work.

Post by **N*A*M** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:58 am

parts aren't that big a problem. i have had mine fully rebuilt. if my r&p break though, i will probably go custom and put the hubs onto some other housings.

Post by **wilsby** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:44 am

Do you think the R&P are the weak link? I don't know the dimensions, but I figure they should be pretty well protected by the gearing down in the hubs?

Post by **grimbo** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:58 pm

have you seen the latest issue of Landrover Owners international with the article about the Outback-Import's Disco and 90. Both are running portals and the Disco has rear steer. Very nice units. Seems they are Mal Storey ones

Post by **Thor** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:30 pm

grimbo wrote:have you seen the latest issue of Landrover Owners international with the article about the Outback-Import's Disco and 90. Both are running portals and the Disco has rear steer. Very nice units. Seems they are Mal Storey ones

mmmm!
http://emmanuel.richard.er.free.fr/DEFENDER/LAND%20ROVER%20DEFENDER%2090%20OUTBACK%20IMPORT/

Post by **AVGAS_502** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:44 pm

I've just realised that is our LF distributors vehicle in France methinks?

Post by **grimbo** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:33 pm

Thor wrote:
grimbo wrote:have you seen the latest issue of Landrover Owners international with the article about the Outback-Import's Disco and 90. Both are running portals and the Disco has rear steer. Very nice units. Seems they are Mal Storey ones

mmmm!
http://emmanuel.richard.er.free.fr/DEFENDER/LAND%20ROVER%20DEFENDER%2090%20OUTBACK%20IMPORT/

aye that be the one but it be in english not french me hearties :new-alien:

(Just thought a Pirate type reply was in order for no other reason than I'm bored)

Post by **landy_man** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:03 pm

that defender looks way to lifted... :roll:

Post by **RANUKI** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:27 pm

Ok, all aside, Landrover made portal hubs that bolted on to landy housings, they are chain driven units (2.35 :1, I believe)....does anybody know where i can get my hands on them... I have spoken to a fella from Mlitary Srplus Aus, yes he has them ,, no he cant release them. So how can I get some............. come on fellas someone out there has to have this info.... SOMEONE.... WHERE ARE YOU????....

Volvo portals are a dead axle the only parts availabe are excess stock so to speak.. once it's gone thats it (so the army say). I don't think they are an option because you can build a stronger diff using landy parts... Yeah the portals are good however in the states no one has won major event on them so it leaves one thinking.yeah...

Cheers

bEN

Post by **wilsby** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:48 pm

To each his own. Portals are more or less a prerequisite for getting anywhere in the higher trial classes over here. One of the points of hub reduction is of course that you don't need a very strong diff, which gives you even more clearance.

As for the US, I don't know. I think the main reason why it hasn't cought on yet is that they lack a domestic manufacturer.

But the yellow D90 on portals looks a bit poseur to me. You can't do portals, high lifts and slinky suspension on the same rig and expect it to be stable. It has pretty small tyres, too.

Post by **RANUKI** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:23 pm

yeah that is the main advantage, lower torque stress on the centre. As for Aus yes they seem to work well, however we do have very different conditions to the states, I do agree.

Yes it is looking unstable, however with the portal lift you don't need to put in that much lift, if you keep your uptravel..

My specialty..

..

Cheers
bEN

P.S. Huge tyres (44's+) are for people that can't pick lines, For example in the states most run 37's (not that big really).. :lol:

Not saying I am any rock leg end either,, I'm just a can't afford comp pleb..

Post by **wilsby** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:55 pm

For rocks, I agree, 37"s should suffice. However, we have to many
military and ex-military Volvo C303's running around with their 5" portals and stock 36" rubber, sometimes with snow chains. They dig mean ruts,
and I'm fed up getting stuck in them with my Defender. Cost me a CV last time...

I'm dreaming of combining 39" Michelins that can be driven on the road as well, the Volvo axles and a truck/buggy that is significantly ligther than a C303. It would be a killer in the mud, and not so bad on rocks, either.

Post by **POS** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:03 pm

RANUKI wrote:yeah that is the main advantage, lower torque stress on the centre. As for Aus yes they seem to work well, however we do have very different conditions to the states, I do agree.

Yes it is looking unstable, however with the portal lift you don't need to put in that much lift, if you keep your uptravel..

My specialty.. ..

Cheers
bEN

P.S. Huge tyres (44's+) are for people that can't pick lines, For example in the states most run 37's (not that big really).. :lol: Not saying I am any rock leg end either,, I'm just a can't afford comp pleb..

OK,

The main reason why guys in the states are running smaller tyres and NO portals is due to the fact that they have already passed the stage of needing huge tyres and portals for clearance!!!

Portals and Big tyres are only useful when driving over sh!tty little rocks.

The U.S guys are driving Near Vertical walls and steep ledges, Low centre of gravity and light weight is the key factor now! Portals and big tyres will not be of any advantage, if anything a disadvantage!

I believe here in OZ we are nearly getting to, or aiming for the same sort of driving.

IMO when it comes time for me to build a Rock Buggy i will be looking for a dana60 rather than MOGs or Volvos. But that is just my opinion and will suit what we/I want to drive.

Post by **308LUX** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:18 pm

cant wait to see your new rig POS ':shock:'

Post by **RANUKI** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:15 am

POS,

Totally man, our sport has to mature alot though, If you have seen my post under "trips and tracks" you know what i mean (if you agree). I'am a Rangie owner and I drive as such,I dont break sh1t because I place wheels not the accelerator and drive like I'm old fart (off road anyways), Well I mean shit breaks but no more than any other unit.
I want to build the same thing as you by the sounds of it. Smaller tyres, LCOG, and Dana's, Myself and FAT (Freedom Automotive Technoligies) are building an LJ50 at the mo, sort of an experiment as to the ability of registering an open wheeler in Vic, 37's, rangie diffs, maxi lockers, 3.8 V6 Holden, secret auto and so on (hence the name ranuki). Sounds to me like where all on a similar track.

Everyone who hasn't read/seen a copy of 'Petersens 4wheel & off road' SHOULD.

Cheers,

bEN

Post by **wilsby** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:26 am

Built LJ50? Thats cool. I'm taking delivery of a build LJ80 trialler next week. No lift, Sami engine, full cage and 700kg.

While I like portals, I agree that they are not the holy grail. You can't really build an optimal rig for all conditions. If you want to take it to the extreme, you need one for every type of terrain you drive.

Post by **POS** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:37 am

308LUX wrote:cant wait to see your new rig POS ':shock:'

What new rig???

Post by **Strange Rover** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:05 am

For 90% of trails axle and belly crearance are perhaps one of the most important things and this is why portal axles are to good. My mogrover has got massive amounts of axle clearance and decent belly clearance and does do many things so easily somply because it doesent touch anywhere.

In the US rock crawling competition scene the terrain that they drive on is highly selective so that they dont need portals or 44in tyres for diff clearance (which work so well on 90% of trails). Their competitions have just evolved like that - in the early days people were running big tyres for axle clearance and then the cource designers realised that when rigs were getting stuck because they were diffing out it wanst very entertaining - so they picked obstacles that were cleaner with less chance of diffing out (and made the obstacles harder as well - more off camber, steeper climb and bigger ledges) So as the course designers made courses that were cleaner and cleaner to produce more exciting driving tyre sizes came down and made portal axles totally unnecessary.

My understanding is that the Europe scene went the other way - they still drive over all sorts of stuff and everybody has got portals and everybody needs them to be competitive.

Sam

Post by **TuffRR** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:08 pm

I personally don't think that the comp scene here will follow the U.S. We just don't have enough of the "clean" terrain (Ayres Rock doesn't count!) as the yanks do. And certainly for 90% of the trails in Victoria - portals would be a HUGE advantage.
IMO an unlocked portalled RR with 35's would go further than a locked standard RR with the same tyres here in Vic.

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