Chinese vs ARB Locker video

[Jacked]

lol. I think no one wants to test them because they are scared they wasted so much on arb's.

In a perfect world any way. "Pay peanuts and you get monkeys."

Not quite sure what you are saying? The ARBs have been tested - by over 1000 competitors using them in winch comp trucks, tuff trucks, rock crawling buggies, outback challenge...and that's only Australia.

The Chinese version got tested too. Please refer to page 1 of this dog's breakfast of an arguement.

a once of bench test is almost useless. to use a different analagy (sp) A ferrari has more power on an engine dyno then an mk patrol. does this mean a ferrari will outlive an mk patrol? does it mean the ferrari will be faster through a bog hole?

Im not saying that either of these diff's are better then the other. On paper you would think the airleaker would be a better UNIT. But a fracture test at new doesnt show a difference for 50,000k's later? 1000s of lock/unlock cycles, oil contamination, heat durability etc. untill a small proportion of these china lockers are used you might as well be guessing. Im all for competition for arb, i dont care where it comes from. The more of these china lockers are made, the more money the company will make, the more engineering they will put into there product, the better the outcome and finally the more arb will realise to stop being a F#$ken rip off.

[nottie]

lol. I think no one wants to test them because they are scared they wasted so much on arb's.

In a perfect world any way. "Pay peanuts and you get monkeys."

Not quite sure what you are saying? The ARBs have been tested - by over 1000 competitors using them in winch comp trucks, tuff trucks, rock crawling buggies, outback challenge...and that's only Australia.

The Chinese version got tested too. Please refer to page 1 of this dog's breakfast of an arguement.

The more of these china lockers are made, the more money the company will make, the more engineering they will put into there product, the better the outcome.

Ahh no they will just go copy somethn else with the same crapy quality that they put into everything else they copy. The only outcome you will get And this is a certain is they make money, you wont be able to sit down as your A#$@ will hurt to much and you wont be able to drive to the shops to get some cream releif for your butt cause you have a destroyed diff due to the cheep crap locker you put in it that caused the start of this problem you have.
Now leary isnt offering a group buy. What he is doing is selling a product for his own gain. ( thats the way its coming across.)

[Jacked]

not everything that comes out of china is s#!t. Most of the stuff people here own is made in china. China is starting to realise that people will pay more for a better product, regardless of where it is made. The only reason i want the china lockers to be decent is to provide ARB with some competition.
whats this got to do with leary???
I never said i would use one
IF it was a good product on the otherhand i dont really have a thing for brand names.

[Dirty]

Now leary isnt offering a group buy. What he is doing is selling a product for his own gain. ( thats the way its coming across.)

Nottie, middle of page 10.

Seeing as i am not making any profit off this i can hardly see how you say I'm advertising. i'm maintaining every thread that i post in and replying to all post's

Taking Leary's word for this, it is a group-buy for our benefit.

- David.

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Well done on the group buy Leary.

Forums' aren't always pleasant, but you ar trying to help.

Good effort, even though I'm not buying atm, I (and I'm sure many silent others) appreciate any effort towards the community.

Paul

[leary393]

ok guys sorry for upsetting some of the outters members. I was mis- informed or un-aware of forum rules which prohibits multiple posts in different threads.

Now that this has been pointed out to me i will make sure it doesn't happen again. I am in the process of talking to the MODS to see if I'm able to run my group buy in the 4x4 Tech thread.

To clear up a few issues.
No i was not making any profit from my group buy.
No i never claimed these lockers to be better than an ARB.
I myself are aware of some of the poor quality stuff that comes from china.
I think Arb is an outstanding product but i also believe they could cut cost and increase sales. If this wasn't the case then I'm sure i wouldn't of had so much interest in my group buy.

my original thread actually contained alot more info until deleted.
In my opinion these are one of the best quality lockers that came out of china. Not to base my opinion around experience but after many hours of research i discovered that not only were air lockers produced by this company, but they also produce alot of parts for well known car brands.
And all goods and materials were subject to strict inspections for quality.

Even Sayin that i would not put these in the same catergory as an ARB but simply a cheaper option. Perfect for a week end warrior, suzuki and your budget 4wd'er.

I have spoke to a guy who is selling a simalar item to these on ebay, And he tells me he uses them him self and can't folt them. His Comment Was, I personally recommend these 100%.

So judge for your self But it seems to me that Arb's strangle hold on the ever so expensive airlocker market is slowely loosening. Just my personal opinion.

I'm pretty sure thats why sites like these run. to share opinions.

[bigbluemav]

Love your work Leary!!

At the end of the day, this argument will go on ad infinitum.

Even if 20 people bought the chinese version and only 2 broke, all hell would break loose from the nay sayers, without asking appropriate questions.

I had ARB items in the fr and rear of the Mav and they never let me down. However, my style of driving is alot less full on than some I've seen, so even markedly weaker items may suit me.

I must admit that I would prefer to buy Australian, but when you can get 2 for the price of one, its very tempting!!

Also, how much of the actual (cost) price of the ARB item do you think is real cost and how much is it still "getting back" the cost of R & D? How much do you think is the product of the reputation that they built when they were THE ONLY manual diff lock, and the high price reflecting this? Basic free market ideology.

If the(se) chinese copies ARE as good and are cheaper because of the fact that they aren't paying for ongoing R & D and labour and other overheads are WAY CHEAPER, ARB will have to lower its prices and margins and profits. Maybe its easier just to put out a video a destroying one.

One thing (perhaps the only thing!!) that univeristy taught me was NEVER EVER EVER listen to someone who has a vested interest in something. That's why these forums are so valuable, and 'opinions' and advertising material from any given manufacturer is, in the main, without value.

My 2c worth.

[Strange Rover]

Love your work Leary!!

At the end of the day, this argument will go on ad infinitum.

Its ar$eholes like you and leary that are destroying the value of Australian manufacturing.

ARB are the original. They developed the product. They have developed the market. They are the absolute leaders in the industry world wide and they are Australian.

ARB have invested many many Australian lives into the development and production of there product.

The only R&D costs for these chinese ripoffs is to buy an ARB airlocker so they can measure it up...and just looking at their range of lockers I would guess they would have bought about 10 lockers total so far.

Shiat....just thinking thinking about it...these chinese companies are probably supporting Australian industry more than you ar$ewipes.

I think its disgusting that any Australian could support such a blatent ripoff.

I think we should have a new forum rule....

Anybody that buys a chinese ARB airlocker ripoff doesent belong on this site.

Sam

[ajsr]

Love your work Leary!!

At the end of the day, this argument will go on ad infinitum.

Its ar$eholes like you and leary that are destroying the value of Australian manufacturing.

ARB are the original. They developed the product. They have developed the market. They are the absolute leaders in the industry world wide and they are Australian.

ARB have invested many many Australian lives into the development and production of there product.

The only R&D costs for these chinese ripoffs is to buy an ARB airlocker so they can measure it up...and just looking at their range of lockers I would guess they would have bought about 10 lockers total so far.

Shiat....just thinking thinking about it...these chinese companies are probably supporting Australian industry more than you ar$ewipes.

I think its disgusting that any Australian could support such a blatent ripoff.

I think we should have a new forum rule....

Anybody that buys a chinese ARB airlocker ripoff doesent belong on this site.Sam

yep said like a true one eyed wanker. Sam can you tell me who invented the car? and how many rippoffs of that have there been over the last 9 decades or so?
victa lawn mower, hills hoist ect etc? what brands do you own?
do you by the cheaper medicines at the chemist sam?
whats the difference?
and by the way ARB did not invert the air locker they bought the design though.
cheers andrew

[Struth]

At the end of the day if the Chinese can sell a comparible locker into the Aussie market then ARB need to learn to compete by reducing costs and therefore prices or aim purely to sell a hi end product to a niche market.

Hi end products into niche markets would justify the cost of an ARB locker, I honestly think they need to review their marketing though. Especially if, as some claim, an ARB locker can be bought in the states and shipped here cheaper than we can buy them, despite the fact the Aussie dollar is always weaker than the US.

It says a lot for their treatment of their domestic market in my view.


Cheers

[dogbreath_48]

...then ARB need to learn to compete by reducing costs and therefore prices...

I suppose they can just cut the factory workers wages? Ohh...that's right, they can't. They'll just ship all manufacturing offshore. May as well send the R&D over with it, save a few bux there! Chuck a few inferior materials and relaxed quality standards into the mix...and it'll STILL cost more than the rip-off.

..fark, may as well just buy a chinese locker!


...the sad state of aussie manufacturing Don't blame me, i voted liberal

[joeblow]

Especially if, as some claim, an ARB locker can be bought in the states and shipped here cheaper than we can buy them, despite the fact the Aussie dollar is always weaker than the US.

It says a lot for their treatment of their domestic market in my view.


Cheers

here we go again!..........


LEARY.....like i said in one of your posts before it was rightly deleted.........WHO will be the person or persons responsible for warranty? i know that the chinese factory won't care, so will you take it onboard? to spend 700 an end, and have it break and no parts or replacement which i bet will be the case is a lot of money for anyone to waste. just curious to know before people hand over thier hard earned money (which wives won't be happy about!) who will be the contact person for problems?

[Strange Rover]

yep said like a true one eyed wanker. Sam can you tell me who invented the car? and how many rippoffs of that have there been over the last 9 decades or so?
victa lawn mower, hills hoist ect etc? what brands do you own?
do you by the cheaper medicines at the chemist sam?
whats the difference?
and by the way ARB did not invert the air locker they bought the design though.
cheers andrew

no
to many
whatever..
Haultech, Icepack, Outerlimits
yes
Air Locker is proudly Australian

And you yell too much.

Sam

[-Scott-]

Love your work Leary!!

At the end of the day, this argument will go on ad infinitum.

Its ar$eholes like you and leary that are destroying the value of Australian manufacturing.

ARB are the original. They developed the product. They have developed the market. They are the absolute leaders in the industry world wide and they are Australian.

ARB have invested many many Australian lives into the development and production of there product.

The only R&D costs for these chinese ripoffs is to buy an ARB airlocker so they can measure it up...and just looking at their range of lockers I would guess they would have bought about 10 lockers total so far.

Shiat....just thinking thinking about it...these chinese companies are probably supporting Australian industry more than you ar$ewipes.

I think its disgusting that any Australian could support such a blatent ripoff.

I think we should have a new forum rule....

Anybody that buys a chinese ARB airlocker ripoff doesent belong on this site.Sam

yep said like a true one eyed wanker. Sam can you tell me who invented the car? and how many rippoffs of that have there been over the last 9 decades or so?
victa lawn mower, hills hoist ect etc? what brands do you own?
do you by the cheaper medicines at the chemist sam?
whats the difference?
and by the way ARB did not invert the air locker they bought the design though.
cheers andrew

Andrew

With reference to Sam's post, as quoted in your post, where did Sam claim that ARB invented the air locker?

ARB developed the Air Locker into the product we know and (most of us) love. Invention and development are two very different things.

[coxy321]

I hope you get your group buy up and happening leary - it should be interesting to see the outcome!

I think that its fine for people to buy the chinese lockers. Some people can't afford an ARB unit, so given the price and amount of use it would get, i can see why they appeal to many people.

Don't be shy cause you dont have the cash, there's nothing wrong with trying something different - just dont expect ARB life or parts support from a chinese unit.

PS. Ford is better than Holden.

[zooki]

Its ar$eholes like you and leary that are destroying the value of Australian manufacturing.

Greed killed Australian manufacturing, on both sides of the invoice.

Dont knock the Chinese, they know what people want and are unbelievably eager to provide it, you want cheap shit, they have cheap shit, you want good quality and stringent documentation and quality standards, they have that too.

You would be suprised just how deep the chinese have penetrated into everything, I'l bet the steel used to make your icepack units aint Australian and you dont even relise it.

[TEAMRPM]

yep said like a true one eyed wanker. Sam can you tell me who invented the car? and how many rippoffs of that have there been over the last 9 decades or so?
victa lawn mower, hills hoist ect etc? what brands do you own?
do you by the cheaper medicines at the chemist sam?
whats the difference?
and by the way ARB did not invert the air locker they bought the design though.
cheers andrew

no
to many
whatever..
Haultech, Icepack, Outerlimits
yes
Air Locker is proudly Australian

And you yell too much.

Sam

Geeeeeeeeeeeez,

calm the fark down lads.. its only a locker!!


if it does its job does it really matter who made the flipin thing? I have supported ARB for numerous years, i like the products. but if china can give the same results in strenght, proven track record in comps and available spares then it may be worth considering. it is half the cost!
im not saying id use one but if it survives the harsh reality of 4x4ing ya never know.

Cheers

[Zook_Fan]

yep said like a true one eyed wanker. Sam can you tell me who invented the car? and how many rippoffs of that have there been over the last 9 decades or so?
victa lawn mower, hills hoist ect etc? what brands do you own?
do you by the cheaper medicines at the chemist sam?
whats the difference?
and by the way ARB did not invert the air locker they bought the design though.
cheers andrew

no
to many
whatever..
Haultech, Icepack, Outerlimits
yes
Air Locker is proudly Australian

And you yell too much.

Sam

Hey sam, just curious but what is the traction control on your web refering to? http://www.haultech.com/Traction.shtml ?

I think that the chinese lockers are not a way of saying aussie. i think it is an alternative that some people see as an easy alternative. That is like saying anyone who cant afford a toyota and buys a nissan should be banned. I will never buy one of these lockers and am looking at getting an arb unit but i can see where a lot of people are coming from.

[Struth]

Especially if, as some claim, an ARB locker can be bought in the states and shipped here cheaper than we can buy them, despite the fact the Aussie dollar is always weaker than the US.

It says a lot for their treatment of their domestic market in my view.


Cheers

here we go again!..........

Where are we going to make you roll your eyes ?

A lot of Australian companies are having to look at their costs in order to compete with overseas products. On top of that we have lived high and mighty for the last decade selling our minerals to the chinese for absolutely bullsh*t rates, in return some people think it's un Australian to buy Chinese product but ok for them to buy ours, that attitude is very narrow and makes me roll my eyes.

I work for a company that imports steel from Chinese mills, some of it is crap and not worth the certificate written for it, most of it is as good as that produced by European or US mills just depends which Chinese company makes it, a lot like any Australian product really.

Assuming Chinese = poor quality is going to put a lot of Australian companies out of business, it's a naive approach at best.

Cheers

[Dirty]

THESE ARE JUST LOCKERS!

All the same stupid arguments when the Chinese winches first came on the market.

Blah, blah, blah....

- David.

[Shadow]

does ARB even own a copyright on the airlocker anymore?

Its been around for so long, i think it would have expired surely?

If so, i dont really see why everyones getting so upset by these chinese lockers.


If another manufacturing firm in australia was making the copies, would that be ok?

or are you all just racist?

[coxy321]

does ARB even own a copyright on the airlocker anymore?

Pretty sure they have something similar (patents?)

If another manufacturing firm in australia was making the copies, would that be ok?

That would be highly illegal. The way the chinese get around it is that it is legal for them to reverse engineer/design stuff - the same way they have been "reverse designing" a lot of European/Japanese cars to an identical product (albeit of far lesser quality material etc).

or are you all just racist?

I'm not racist, however the "dont buy chinese" gig reminds me of old people carrying on after the war when you weren't allowed to buy Japanese stuff - because its "unaustralian".

[cj]

does ARB even own a copyright on the airlocker anymore?

Pretty sure they have something similar (patents?)

If another manufacturing firm in australia was making the copies, would that be ok?

That would be highly illegal. The way the chinese get around it is that it is legal for them to reverse engineer/design stuff - the same way they have been "reverse designing" a lot of European/Japanese cars to an identical product (albeit of far lesser quality material etc).

or are you all just racist?

I'm not racist, however the "dont buy chinese" gig reminds me of old people carrying on after the war when you weren't allowed to buy Japanese stuff - because its "unaustralian".

Actually the original patent has expired and any other firm in Australia could look at making them if they wanted to. What ARB have done is to continue to develop the Air Locker and have a couple of new patents so they couldn't copy the latest version.

I have Air Lockers and I'm happy to have them but if someone wants to run a cheaper Chinese version that's fine by me too just like some years ago people used to buy cheaper and lower quality Japanese products and now they are starting to buy cheaper and lower quality items from Africa and South America as China's prices rise. Hell, even the Chinese are setting up cheaper offshore production facilities as their labour is becoming too expensive.

I don't have a problem with group buys of these things either, at least we'd get some numbers out there to get some feedback on. Parochialism and protectionism isn't the answer, continuing innovation and marketing is what's needed as it's a big wide world out there that we live in. We all buy for different reasons and although price is a consideration it is not always the highest priority. Value or perceived value is where i'ts at which is different to price.

[leary393]

I really don't understand this hole un-Australian nonsence.

If you wear Ausiebum jocks, Married to a full blood Aussie, Drive an Australian made Car, With an Australian Made Engine, wear Australian made clothes and only eat Australian grown food.

Then yes you have a fair arguement.

I think Australians have been short changed for a long time now. Hell even an Australian made with aussie R+D Car, Goes faster and is cheaper in the US. Go figure. Us wingeing about it is hardly goin to make a diference.

If you made a product would you sell it cheaper to your enemy than your best mate. Its marketting. ARB can't give a stuff about the aussie guy.
All they worry about is making a good product and making as much money as they can off it. And who can blame them.

[bigbluemav]

Love your work Leary!!

At the end of the day, this argument will go on ad infinitum.

Its ar$eholes like you and leary that are destroying the value of Australian manufacturing.

ARB are the original. They developed the product. They have developed the market. They are the absolute leaders in the industry world wide and they are Australian.

ARB have invested many many Australian lives into the development and production of there product.

The only R&D costs for these chinese ripoffs is to buy an ARB airlocker so they can measure it up...and just looking at their range of lockers I would guess they would have bought about 10 lockers total so far.

Shiat....just thinking thinking about it...these chinese companies are probably supporting Australian industry more than you ar$ewipes.

I think its disgusting that any Australian could support such a blatent ripoff.

I think we should have a new forum rule....

Anybody that buys a chinese ARB airlocker ripoff doesent belong on this site.

Sam

Well, thanks for your input and opinion, venomous as it is.

ARB market their gear here and overseas and, like alot of companies, try to appeal to (Aussie) customers' sense of patriotism. But that patriotism comes at a price. I bought a set of their lockers, and paid $2200 for the privelege 5 years ago.

I hear what you're saying but, in a global economy, with the benefits reaped by ARB, there are also consequences. Because of the global economy, ARB have integrated their stuff into so well, one of the consequences IS competition.

Yes, in an ideal world if I had more money to put into my hobby (wheeling), I'd probably buy Australian and even get it fitted at an ARB shop. But this is NOT the case, as it is for MOST of us.

Its a 2 way street, if ARB want Aussies to support them, discount the product to us! If the difference between the two options was only $200-300 (for a pair), then more people would go the other way (to ARB). But with the difference being $1000 +, its a big ask.

ARB have benefited from reduced barriers of trade to export their terrific products and still expect patriotic Aussies to buy their gear. When does that patriotism work the other way?

[me3@neuralfibre.com]

Welcome to globalisation.

Don't like it - go to one of the protests, they happen regularly enough. Maybe throw some rocks at the cops or something.

Personally - I like it, with some constrained limits. History show the richest countries are those that trade like crazy. Isolationist approaches tend to yeild poor economies. Unmitigated capatilism has no conscience, so Governments need to step in to put the limits in place. There is no right line in the sand, it keeps moving. I reckon the Liberal (capitalist) Govt's tend to get the line closer to correct, but sometimes it needs a Socialist (Labour) gov't to bring it back the other way.

US cars suck, and now they are bankrupt. Innovate or die.

The concept of a patent was invented so that society would end up woth full public disclosure of new technologies. The payback for a company disclosing the technology is 10 years (generally) protection from copying the technology. After 10 years, it's fair game, keep innovating, or die.

I support Australian innovation, not sob story handouts to inefficiency. That didn't work well for the soviet economies years ago, and won't really help us that much.

Sam runs a business, so knows all about cashflow. A solvent business can go under due to a temporary glitch in cashflow. The Govt can help out by smoothing out all sorts of things that cause those glitches, but if the fundamentls aren't solvent, it'll go under anyway.

I've been to the chinese trade shows. These guys are innovating. Until Aust does, we'll stay the mine / farm / tourist spot we are now. We have bright ideas, but no manufacturing base to build them competitively. The chinese innovated on this locker. They made it "good enough to sell" and "cheap enough to sell". Only time will tell if they set the bar at the right point.

Personally, my cruiser will be worn out in 300,000-500,000km. A locker any tougher than that, is a waste of money. A locker that wears faster than that, is a downgrade from OEM reliability.

Paul

[Dozoor]

Over 50% of australians are Lazy full stop .
That 50% put shid on there employers at every chance ,
They will search for the easiest way to have a bludge ,
Take sick days for no reason and pilfer anything thats not tied down,

Manufacturing in this country is being eaten alive from both inside and out.
half the people don,t do there best while working at it ,
and the other half don,t support it .

Factories in china are all government run as far as i know.


Oh and when i say australian it means people that live here,
whether there what ever race.
We have bred a population of slakers,


Oh all this dosn,t alter the fact the chinese lockers are craap.

If you expect the people on this site to say oh maybe there ok your wrong , you can expect that from a TOURING forum.
{Although it sounds like one of those lately}

[thehanko]

Buy what ever you prefer. there we go debate over.

people keep saying its half the price.

but its also worth noting that the locker is only a fraction of the total price of getting lockers,

so saving $500 against $1100 (just the locker) sounds great, but saving saving $500 against a total price of say a $2200 system drive in drive out doesnt seem so much, and your back up is gone.

Also I have just bought arb lockers and paid to have them fitted into my centers, but have pulled the centers out myself etc etc and its quite alot of work. so saving $500 to have a mayby ok mayby rubbish product in my car simply wasnt worth it in MY opinion with the risk of doing all that again and possibly replacing the whole thing plus what ever else died if it went wrong (and im a tight arse).

So for me right now arb is proven.

chinese are questionable, and an outdated design.

when/if the chinese ones are proven then this will be a more relevant debate.


Legally and morally the chinese can make the old patent free designs. they save by having no r & d but lose out by not having the upto date product.

I have seen a number of our (personally) products blatantly ripped off, by both aussies and other nations. SADLY it is a fact of life. even by people i used to trust and consider friends .

[88pajero]

I will be in the market for a locker/ lockers very shortly and I have been researching my ass off and in all honesty I will prefer by a mile to go with the arb. Several reasons got me to that conclusion, Reliability, good name, aussie owned, proven, etc etc. But I am a married man with 4 kids so no matter how much I earn I will never have the $$$ I would like to have floating around in my pocket, so there is my only hurdle with going arb lockers, and to be honest when its going to cost over 3 grand to lock both ends its a big hurdle.

Then came the idea of auto lockers, or unlockers as it would seem. Cheap, effictive but I would be a fair bit weary about running one in the front, especially living only 15 mins drive from the foot hills of the high country, snow and auto lockers might be a bit sceary. Funny enough the arguements of arb vs auto lockers seem to get as viscious as this topic as well. The other issue I have with auto lockers is that im driving a 75 series troopy and with the rear constantly locked ill be worried about breaking my axle bolts.

So it would seem that an air locker is the best idea. I watched that test on you tube that simon from 4wd tv did and I would think that "IF" I was to try these chinese lockers in the troopy I would well and truely break the axle bols (stub axles, whatever theyre called) well before the locker had a chance of breaking. If that is the case, I would almost say that it would be worth the effort of purchasing them! If theyre going to out last the bolts that hold my axle in, they would definately be strong enough for the troopy! And for the price, i cant complain with that.

But dont get me wrong, I would still prefer to go arb, and I probably save for a bit longer anyway to get them BUT there is that bit of temptation to try.

Also as some have previously mentioned a bit of competition for arb will be good, if there prices were more affordable so many more people would purchase theyre lockers rather than dreaming about them, I would gladly lock both my 4x4s with arb products if it was more affordable! Then of course my hard earned cash will be staying on our shores helping keep more aussies in a job!!!!! COME ON ARB, BEFORE I LOCK MY TROOPY DROP YOUR PRICES AND I WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT BUY YOU PRODUCT

[k3lst]

everyone keeps on saying the same old thing

"i want arb lockers but they cost too much"

Has anyone looked into getting an arb one for their car off ebay before they say that?? I bought a used arb locker (only been in for a few months) for 600 bucks. Put it in with a decent compressor bought new, and still have it installed for under $1000. Good thing about this is usually you can sell your old diff center off once the new one is installed.

Yes i know you have to put abit of trust in the seller that the components in the diff centre are all good, but having said that, mines been going strong!