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Dozoor wrote:
If you expect the people on this site to say oh maybe there ok your wrong , you can expect that from a TOURING forum.
{Although it sounds like one of those lately}
No one is expecting anyone to say they are ok by the standards of use that you expect from people that use this site.
the point is, they have a place in the market.
Having these things around will (if they prove to be good enough for light duty users) force the price of the ARB items down, or they will start to loose sales. even if Mr ARB thinks he will not have to do it, If these things start to sell in numbers, ARBs price will come down. It must already be hurting them, other wise they would never have posted that video on youtube.
Dozoor wrote:
If you expect the people on this site to say oh maybe there ok your wrong , you can expect that from a TOURING forum.
{Although it sounds like one of those lately}
No one is expecting anyone to say they are ok by the standards of use that you expect from people that use this site.
the point is, they have a place in the market.
Having these things around will (if they prove to be good enough for light duty users) force the price of the ARB items down, or they will start to loose sales. even if Mr ARB thinks he will not have to do it, If these things start to sell in numbers, ARBs price will come down. It must already be hurting them, other wise they would never have posted that video on youtube.
Its funny, but products like this can actually increase sales in more expensive established products.
you get 12 pages of people talking about lockers - a name sinonomous with arb gear (sorry about the spelling).
people go - wow i can justify a locker at that price, the mind set changes to im getting a locker - then they go oh well for an extra 5 hundy which isnt much i can get the arb.
I personally dont think these will be hurting arb's sales, but that doesnt mean arb are not watching the situation with great interest.
*there's a rock, drive over it :) there's a bigger rock, drive over it :twisted: there's an even bigger rock, oops broke it :oops: Upgrade broken bit :bad-words:
Goto *
From what I can see is the biggest reason people are looking at the chinese lockers is upfront cost.
Gee we can all relate to that lately.
I wont put cheap arse shit into my Maverick because you have to rely on it.
I put a Lockrite in the front of mine because I couldnt afford the air locker. Saying that I bought the original instead of the South Australian knockoff because of know quality issues.
I want to lock the back but cant afford an ARB at the moment , there is no Lockrith available for it and the chinese shit isnt going anywhere near the truck so at the moment it will get nothing.
Maybe ARB need to grab this bull by the horns and do something constructive instead of just slagging out the opposition.
Maybe if ARB were to run something where you can get lockers for a downpayment of what the chinese ones are and then you can pay the rest off over 12 months or something it would swing people who want the locker but cant afford the ARB upfront so will go chinese to get the ARB.
More product out there and more available to the masses could only help their cause.
thehanko wrote:Buy what ever you prefer. there we go debate over.
people keep saying its half the price.
but its also worth noting that the locker is only a fraction of the total price of getting lockers,
so saving $500 against $1100 (just the locker) sounds great, but saving saving $500 against a total price of say a $2200 system drive in drive out doesnt seem so much, and your back up is gone.
Also I have just bought arb lockers and paid to have them fitted into my centers, but have pulled the centers out myself etc etc and its quite alot of work. so saving $500 to have a mayby ok mayby rubbish product in my car simply wasnt worth it in MY opinion with the risk of doing all that again and possibly replacing the whole thing plus what ever else died if it went wrong (and im a tight arse).
So for me right now arb is proven.
chinese are questionable, and an outdated design.
when/if the chinese ones are proven then this will be a more relevant debate.
Good points Hanko.
If an inferior (largely agreed by all here) cheap copy shits its self, the replacement cost may not just be the purchase of a new cheap locker and fitment. This alone negates the 'saving' vs buying ARB. If the failure of the cheap product causes the destruction of other components like axles or crown and pinion, suddenly your saving becomes expensive.
I recently broke a cheap CV (didnt understand what it would be subjected to when I bought it )
the cost of the cheap CV plus the replacement CV along with trashed stub axle spindle, replacement wheel bearings, oil seals, diff oil etc could have just about paid for Longfeilds for one side. The inner axle just survived, so could have been worse.
Might be cheap on face value, but cheap often ends up being expensive.
But joeblow has a point, these other items dont have to drive us home.
Allthough im still fairly confident a cheap locker will last longer than my axle bolts will. There for shouldnt cause any real issues, but i would still like to $ave for a bit longer and go aussie. I think
Jabber gone. Now have 98 nissan terrano and a 94 4.2ldiesel rv troopy on 33s slowly getting the fancy bits. How the hell do I change my user name?
yeah?...........explain that to the crank in the GMC chainsaw i had after its 3rd run!
and it didn't have to drive me or my family home!
I've on my 4th Makita angle grinder with home use only.
I'm on my first $45 GMC circualr saw after doing a HUGE reno on an old qld'er (hardwood) now 2 storey, 75sqm hardwood deck, 6 x 18m hardwood shed.
Not as smooth and quiet at the Hitachi, but at the price.
And I haven't killed the Aldi chainsaw yet.
yeah?...........explain that to the crank in the GMC chainsaw i had after its 3rd run!
and it didn't have to drive me or my family home!
yeah well, there is no 'tongue in cheek' emoticon. but i figured every one would be smart enough to work i was joking. perhaps i was wrong.
that being said i got a few GMC power tools at work, they are all very noisy but have copped a fair punishment over the last few years, they are all still going strong.
would i buy a GMC chainsaw, hell no, only an idiot would do that.
shindowa all the way, 4 times the commercial warrenty of stihl stuff and far better build quality.
yeah?...........explain that to the crank in the GMC chainsaw i had after its 3rd run!
and it didn't have to drive me or my family home!
I've on my 4th Makita angle grinder with home use only.
I'm on my first $45 GMC circualr saw after doing a HUGE reno on an old qld'er (hardwood) now 2 storey, 75sqm hardwood deck, 6 x 18m hardwood shed.
Not as smooth and quiet at the Hitachi, but at the price.
And I haven't killed the Aldi chainsaw yet.
Paul
Couple of points worth noting, GMC went under by being too big for itself. stock on hand and debt to cover that stock along with loss of 1 major buyer which effected cash flow killed the company not their return rate.
Another thing worth noting is that while gmc products did fail alot some kept going albeit never as smooth, quiet or accurate as top range items, but they were never meant to compete with those.
The problem with makita is they lowered their quality to try to compete with inferior product. I hope ARB never stoops to this. Makita are not the brand they used to be, which is why their grinders start from $60 not $160.
So basically gmc filled a need as does the chinese locker - it is also worth noting gmc made millions of these things to get it right and they still had a huge failure and return rate.
locker manufacturers might make hundreds or thousands but not millions, and if there was a return rate of these lockers of anywhere near this they would not be worth a second thought. its no as simple as taking your drill back to bunnings, its a complete strip down and ship back to china.
*there's a rock, drive over it :) there's a bigger rock, drive over it :twisted: there's an even bigger rock, oops broke it :oops: Upgrade broken bit :bad-words:
Goto *
mattsluxtruck wrote:From what I can see is the biggest reason people are looking at the chinese lockers is upfront cost.
Maybe ARB need to grab this bull by the horns and do something constructive instead of just slagging out the opposition.
Maybe if ARB were to run something where you can get lockers for a downpayment of what the chinese ones are and then you can pay the rest off over 12 months or something it would swing people who want the locker but cant afford the ARB upfront so will go chinese to get the ARB.
More product out there and more available to the masses could only help their cause.
I reckon you have hit the nail on the head.
There a big enough company to set up 12 month interest free finance like a lot of furniture shops, car yards etc. This would get them a shit load more sales and would knock the cheaper brands around in a big way. This would not only improve there lockers sales but they could do it with all there products.
yeah?...........explain that to the crank in the GMC chainsaw i had after its 3rd run!
and it didn't have to drive me or my family home!
I've on my 4th Makita angle grinder with home use only.
I'm on my first $45 GMC circualr saw after doing a HUGE reno on an old qld'er (hardwood) now 2 storey, 75sqm hardwood deck, 6 x 18m hardwood shed.
Not as smooth and quiet at the Hitachi, but at the price.
And I haven't killed the Aldi chainsaw yet.
Paul
Couple of points worth noting, GMC went under by being too big for itself. stock on hand and debt to cover that stock along with loss of 1 major buyer which effected cash flow killed the company not their return rate.
Another thing worth noting is that while gmc products did fail alot some kept going albeit never as smooth, quiet or accurate as top range items, but they were never meant to compete with those.
The problem with makita is they lowered their quality to try to compete with inferior product. I hope ARB never stoops to this. Makita are not the brand they used to be, which is why their grinders start from $60 not $160.
So basically gmc filled a need as does the chinese locker - it is also worth noting gmc made millions of these things to get it right and they still had a huge failure and return rate.
locker manufacturers might make hundreds or thousands but not millions, and if there was a return rate of these lockers of anywhere near this they would not be worth a second thought. its no as simple as taking your drill back to bunnings, its a complete strip down and ship back to china.
surely you would change brands after the first failed prematurely, let alone the second??
cheap x 4of becomes expensive, even if there is waranty involved, the pain of not being able to finish something, having to go back to the supplier etc etc even for home handyman type stuff its a pain in the arse, my saturday is worth more than the hassle, and thats just talking cheap shit tools which as said dont have to get you and your family home again.
An intersting thing about the GMC example is how many have popped up in their place, Ozito and Talon and everyother Grimace name you can think off
So talking of brands such as GMC Vs Bosch or Makita, do these Chinese lockers have a brand, or are you all just slagging off on Chinese products in particular?
What brand or manufacturer was the one tested by ARB?
Struth wrote:So talking of brands such as GMC Vs Bosch or Makita, do these Chinese lockers have a brand, or are you all just slagging off on Chinese products in particular?
What brand or manufacturer was the one tested by ARB?
The ones I'm doing the group buy on are OFFROAD air lockers (couldn't get a more vague brand name)
So tell me who is in the position to stand up to ARB and put these idea's forward. If things change, And ARB will come to the party with finance or something of the like, So its easier for your average jo blow to afford ARB.
I'll point all of my customers to ARB. Would much rather see our money stay on the shores of Australia.
These lockers will still have a place in the market tho. Same as GMC and the other cheap brands. Who will be wanting to put in air lockers which are more expensive than the car they drive.
Is a poll the answer or a vote. What will it take. Maybe a chinese factory to make a video breaking an ARB. I would love to be the person to put forward the average Austalian 4wd'ers point of view, But Why would they listen to little old me.
are you guys for real its not arb,s responsibility to offer finance
for accessories , it would only make them dearer anyway even if they
did . seriously you guys need to get a life either save the money over a few months or if you want to get into debt get a credit card .
flexytj wrote:are you guys for real its not arb,s responsibility to offer finance
for accessories , it would only make them dearer anyway even if they
did . seriously you guys need to get a life either save the money over a few months or if you want to get into debt get a credit card .
it aint that hard
gold!
I enjoyed reading this after the provious lot.
buy what you can afford. if you cant afford what you want then go without or save, go second hand or go a cheap chinese rip off all of the above is better than bullshite finance.
Finance on non essentials is part of the reason for the ecconomic crap going on at the moment.
Any store can offer finance through a third party. just many dont believe its responsible.
Oh and how do you get arb to listen to your thoughts... dont worry big brother is watching dont you worry about that at all.
But what they think is a sound corporate plan and what you think will make it easier for you to get lockers may or may not be the same thing. they are not running a charity to get more people with locked diffs.
*there's a rock, drive over it :) there's a bigger rock, drive over it :twisted: there's an even bigger rock, oops broke it :oops: Upgrade broken bit :bad-words:
Goto *
flexytj wrote:are you guys for real its not arb,s responsibility to offer finance
for accessories , it would only make them dearer anyway even if they
did . seriously you guys need to get a life either save the money over a few months or if you want to get into debt get a credit card .
it aint that hard
Yes I'm for real. Since when it it a crime to have an opinion?
It's the 21st century in case you haven't noticed and ARB could benefit from this. But it's fine if you still want to run around with your head up your ass and still think it's the 80s.
interest free finance is not actually free. RRP's go up to cover som of the cost so the buyer still pays more. and the vendor loses out by having to pay a certain % to the finance company along with a sign up fee per person.
on a locker it would probably cost the buyer an extra $100 and also cost arb another $100 so i personally dont think it would benefit them at all. but as i said i personally believe...
*there's a rock, drive over it :) there's a bigger rock, drive over it :twisted: there's an even bigger rock, oops broke it :oops: Upgrade broken bit :bad-words:
Goto *
I reckon offering interest free terms would see ARBs sales go through the roof personally, a lot of people can afford to pay things off over time and would jump at the chance to build their dream 4 x 4 sooner.
Shite we got, ducted heating, carpet throughout, sound systems, televisions, air conditioners, etc, etc, etc on interest free terms. We know we payed a premium for it, we are not farkwits, but it worked well for us.
So why would it not work for people buying lockers, fridges, draw sets, suspension, etc, etc, etc.
It's an option ARB should consider, if they have and then knocked it back then so be it, but to discount it and tell people to get a life for thinking of it is just plain rude and not necessary.
Struth wrote:I reckon offering interest free terms would see ARBs sales go through the roof personally, a lot of people can afford to pay things off over time and would jump at the chance to build their dream 4 x 4 sooner.
Shite we got, ducted heating, carpet throughout, sound systems, televisions, air conditioners, etc, etc, etc on interest free terms. We know we payed a premium for it, we are not farkwits, but it worked well for us.
So why would it not work for people buying lockers, fridges, draw sets, suspension, etc, etc, etc.
It's an option ARB should consider, if they have and then knocked it back then so be it, but to discount it and tell people to get a life for thinking of it is just plain rude and not necessary.
Cheers
Theres no such thing as interest free. You are simply paying for it in the purchase price.
There is absolutely nothing stopping somebody from getting a personal loan for these items. If the bank refuses the loan, its probably because the bank feels they wont meet the repayments, which means they probably wouldn't meet the "interest free" payments either.
I personally think interest free is a scam to get suckers to buy items they cant afford, or want on a whim.
Struth wrote:I reckon offering interest free terms would see ARBs sales go through the roof personally, a lot of people can afford to pay things off over time and would jump at the chance to build their dream 4 x 4 sooner.
Shite we got, ducted heating, carpet throughout, sound systems, televisions, air conditioners, etc, etc, etc on interest free terms. We know we payed a premium for it, we are not farkwits, but it worked well for us.
So why would it not work for people buying lockers, fridges, draw sets, suspension, etc, etc, etc.
It's an option ARB should consider, if they have and then knocked it back then so be it, but to discount it and tell people to get a life for thinking of it is just plain rude and not necessary.
Cheers
Theres no such thing as interest free. You are simply paying for it in the purchase price.
There is absolutely nothing stopping somebody from getting a personal loan for these items. If the bank refuses the loan, its probably because the bank feels they wont meet the repayments, which means they probably wouldn't meet the "interest free" payments either.
I personally think interest free is a scam to get suckers to buy items they cant afford, or want on a whim.
Anyone with the IQ of more then 5 knows that interest free is not exactly interest free but it's an option that works for tens of thousands of other businesses and people use it.
Getting a personal loan is a major stuff around which can take up to a week and even then you have to chase the bank up to get a response not to mention they don't open weekends. I'm sure some smart ass will come on here and say there's doe's though.
Finance can be done within 10 minutes over the phone and it's convenient. It's a very good option and this day and age is more common then bank loans and if payed off in time is actually cheaper then a personal loan.
thehanko wrote:But what they think is a sound corporate plan and what you think will make it easier for you to get lockers may or may not be the same thing. they are not running a charity to get more people with locked diffs.
I agree. They are a business which is in the business of staying in business. They need to protect themselves, especially in this economic climate otherwise if they go belly up like Kleenmaid, GMC etc then the only lockers you'll be able to buy will be the chinese ones or the TJM ones (if they're still making them...?). And what happens if there's no competition or consumer choice? The price of the chinese ones suddenly become the price of ARB ones. And when that happens, we'll all be saying "gee i wish ARB was still around, they made some good stuff and compared to the current prices of this chinese stuff they were cheap...
"air locker" on ebay as the intro line. $850 with compressor sounds like a bargain - even uses the name 'air locker'.
at least this guy admits its not an arb one its one that he sourced from overseas.
but major rsik buying a second hand unit without an origional purchase recipt to show arb on it.
I mean $850 for a knock off is alot but it has been bid on.
*there's a rock, drive over it :) there's a bigger rock, drive over it :twisted: there's an even bigger rock, oops broke it :oops: Upgrade broken bit :bad-words:
Goto *
Struth wrote:I reckon offering interest free terms would see ARBs sales go through the roof personally, a lot of people can afford to pay things off over time and would jump at the chance to build their dream 4 x 4 sooner.
Shite we got, ducted heating, carpet throughout, sound systems, televisions, air conditioners, etc, etc, etc on interest free terms. We know we payed a premium for it, we are not farkwits, but it worked well for us.
So why would it not work for people buying lockers, fridges, draw sets, suspension, etc, etc, etc.
It's an option ARB should consider, if they have and then knocked it back then so be it, but to discount it and tell people to get a life for thinking of it is just plain rude and not necessary.
Cheers
Theres no such thing as interest free. You are simply paying for it in the purchase price.
There is absolutely nothing stopping somebody from getting a personal loan for these items. If the bank refuses the loan, its probably because the bank feels they wont meet the repayments, which means they probably wouldn't meet the "interest free" payments either.
I personally think interest free is a scam to get suckers to buy items they cant afford, or want on a whim.
Definately it's a trap for dumbasses who can't manage their money, for the rest of us it's a perfectly legitimate and acceptable way to get things we want while only paying a bit extra.
As someone else has already stated bank loans are a PIA for anything smaller than a car, I can walk into a shop and walk out with anything up to our limit after about 10 mins of paperwork.
)
