Feroza Engine Rebuild

[Clint]

I don't get on here much these days but i thought you guys might be interested in this little project.

The Roza has been running rough for a while now and i have replaced all the ignition parts to try and fix the problem with no success.
Plugs, leads, coil, dizzy cap, rotor etc with no change.
It has been using a bit of oil for a while now too.

I did a compression test the other weekend showed No.3 at 50psi and all the others around 150ish psi
Pulled the tappet cover off and all looks ok. None of the valve clearances have changed.

Then i did a wet compression test and No.3 has come up from 50 psi to 110 psi which is closer to the 150-160 the rest of the cylinders are at.
So it looks like it's the rings more so than the valves.
Out of interest i priced a full engine rebuild from a mob in town thisarv.....$3000 So that is certainly not going to happen.

So I have decided to pull it out and have a go at rebuilding it myself.
I recon the parts will come out to about the same $$ as a 2nd hand engine and once done i will know exactly what i have got.

Being Fitter & Turner it shouldn't be to difficult but not having done
an engine rebuild before i may be looking for a few tips from those who have.

It is certainly going to be an experience and i will keep you all posted.
Will also be asking a few questions along the way no doubt.

Few photos of the disassembly

[F300tazmanian]

Just keep us updated here sir

[MightyMouse]

Actually a second hand engine is MUCH cheaper... I usually get Applause engines for around $130 if I remove them myself.

The trick of course is to find a good one, and in my experience pulling the rocker cover off and checking the condition of the rocker gear is very effective. if there's any sign of black or carbonized oil its not for you.

A good one will have a consisten light gold color to all the rocker gear components.

About 1 in 3 are good candidates.

[Clint]

hmmmmmmm..............

$130 hey? was thinkin they were more like $1600

[MightyMouse]

Go to a Daihatsu wrecker... mention Feroza and they want to pay for their childrens education from your purchase.

Then they sell you an Applause engine that they bought for $50 from $1200 +

Self Serve wreckers are the answer - they don't know or care, its its a bare 4 cylinder then its $X.

You will need to transfer the externals from the Feroza but this has been very well covered in other articles.

Feroza and Applause HD's are the SAME engine - only internal difference is the Applause cam that makes slightly more power at the expense of a bit of bottom end torque. As you have the Feroza cam you get to choose.

Just check the block at the exhaust side, flywheel end - it should have HD cast in it. If it has HC then its a 1.3.... whcih somewhat surpringly makes just about the same power as the i.6

Whilst the head is the same, the block ( deck height ), crank and pistons are all different so in reality there's not a lot of usefull parts.

I've got new bearings, some of the seals, timing belts, valves etc etc that i was going to use on a supercharged engine... but I've found a MUCH better engine to put in - so perhaps we can do a deal ?

If you want to get excited I've got the blower / mounts / drive etc etc

[Clint]

Yeah i have read a lot over the years about the applause being essentialy the same as the roza engines.
Might still look at that option.

For some reason though i would like to stick with the original if i can.
Will get some satisfaction and experiance fixin it myself i think.
Providing it's measures up ok and is not too worn out of course


Now a supercharger..............mmmmmmmmmmmm........???????

[MightyMouse]

bores have a nasty habbit of ridging heavily at the top of stroke and can take a lot of metal to get right - which then causes EXPENSIVE piston issues.

Crank / rods etc seem to be very wear resistent - i've never struck one that had ever really worn. in the bottom end.

[Clint]

Question guys........do i have to put the valve springs back in the same position when i reassemble it or doesn't it matter?

I will be gettin a new set of valves if that makes any differance.

[Clint]

Well today i pulled the rest of the block down and did some measuring to see how much wear there is.

Is it normal to have so much carbon build up on top of the pistons after 240000kms?
What would cause such a build up?

You can see some scuffing in the sides of the piston.
Guess this is caused by the Ferozas reputation for pinging.
This has worn the bore a bit and it measures a fraction bigger than max spec.

[monmendoza]

Clint, very informative thread. thank you and good luck.
Is there a thing as a long stroker for a Feroza? Or is it
possible to have an over size piston to increase power?
Forgive me if the question sounds foolish. Have zero
experience with an engine rebuild.

[Clint]

Is there a thing as a long stroker for a Feroza?

I doubt it mate. I think things like that would be limited to the higher perfomace end of the engine market ie V8's etc.
We can always dream but

Or is it
possible to have an over size piston to increase power?

There is very little room for much of an oversized piston.
The cast cylinder liners in the alloy block are only about 4 mm think.
You would not be able to machine much out of these at all.

[MightyMouse]

There is no way of easily stroking the HD...

Pistons - I usually just have them made to suit whatever bore I'm working with but there's not a lot of metal in the bores to start with so in effort vs reward its a complete waste of time.

if its supercharged or turbo then the pistons are obvioulsy required so its a better deal.

Also HD's sleves aren't supported at the top - simply clamped by the head which means removing lots of metal will allow the bores to walk under power creating lots of expensive problems. A girdle will fix this but this is a major job unless you have a CNC mill and lots of time and money.

Anythings do-able but there are lots of more prommising engines out there - spend the time and effort on the engine adapter and end up with a much better outcome.

[Clint]

Got the block back from the engine mob yestrday arv.
Bores were worn (0.2mm) 0.008". So the machined em out and i am chuckin in some oversized pistons.
So it's the weekend in the shed for me.

[Clint]

Ok a few pics of it goin back together.


Puttin the crank in










All pistons in and turning over nicely



All these bits have to go somewhere

[chugga]

How much do you think the whole rebuild will cost?

[Clint]

I will let you know next week i am gunna do a total over the weekend.
Its probably gunna be a bit more than i planned but i am doin a few extra things along the way that will need doin soon anyway.

[MightyMouse]

Pay particular attention to the small filler "gaskets" that straddle the front and rear main bearing shells / sump.

Give them a gererous dose of sealant as they aren't a particularly good design and have a habit of leaking if your not carefull.

Whilst you have got it apart change the water hose that runs under the intake manifold - its almost impossible to get too when the engines in - I used silicone heater hose from a hose supplied and it wasn't dear.

Overhaul the dissy - the grease on the timing plate bearing goes hard... and the rotor buttons seem to break up at the drop of a hat.

[Clint]

Pay particular attention to the small filler "gaskets" that straddle the front and rear main bearing shells / sump.

Give them a gererous dose of sealant as they aren't a particularly good design and have a habit of leaking if your not carefull.

Whilst you have got it apart change the water hose that runs under the intake manifold - its almost impossible to get too when the engines in - I used silicone heater hose from a hose supplied and it wasn't dear.

Overhaul the dissy - the grease on the timing plate bearing goes hard... and the rotor buttons seem to break up at the drop of a hat.

Thanks for the tips.
I did that hose a few years back when i did the chassis replacement.
I will have another look at it now but.
Have recently put on new dizzy cap and button but will have a closer look at the rest of the dizzy.

Thanks for that.

[Clint]

Few more pics while i am here

[Newtothefourbeworld]

wow that looks schmik!

did you do any head work at all?

[Clint]

wow that looks schmik!

did you do any head work at all?

Thanks.
If ya mean performance enhancement wise then no, i left it all standard.
Just put in new valve guides, seals, and valves.


Another question guys.
Will i need to use running in oil for a while or just put normal oil straight in it.?

[MightyMouse]

No - the days of running in oil are pretty much over - especially if its been honed properly / new rings etc.

Current wisdom is good quality - non "super anti friction" for say a thousand km's and then back to a good quality friction modified oil for normal use.

Change the filter at 1000 Km's also to clean out any junk that may have been dislodged in the run in process.

[Clint]

Thanks mate.
So what grade ye recon 20W50 or 15W40?

[MightyMouse]

I'd suggest 20W50 if its likely to do any real off roading, you "might" get a tiny bit more power form a lower viscosity - but IMHO its a risk that I wouldn't take.

As you know Feroza's are prone to overheating and pinging so I belivve the extra viscosity is justified.

[Clint]

Thanks again.

I was running 15W40 in the earlier years but lately it's been 20W50 so i will stick with that.

[Clint]

Ok some more pics after i have spent all night in the shed chucking more bits on the donk.

Got the injectors back thisarv after getting them cleaned and checked out.









So it's into town tomorrow to get oil, filters, coolant and a thermostat.
Then i will spend the rest of the weekend puting the engine back in.
Won't be able to start it yet cause the auto leccys still have the starter motor that was playing up.

[Clint]

Well the engine is back in.
Just gotta hook everthing back up now.
Will kick off again in the morning.

[chugga]

Your nearly there mate. Can you take a pic where the air hoses come off your powersteering please as mine have been placed on the wrong way?

[Clint]

Your nearly there mate. Can you take a pic where the air hoses come off your powersteering please as mine have been placed on the wrong way?

I had to look up the manual to make sure i had it right myself mate.
Looks like the top one goes to the front of the black box of the air inlet on top of the engine.
The bottom one goes over to the side of the inlet manifold.


Also another question, just below and to the rear of the thermosat housing there is 2 cooling system hoses.
One is approx 20mm dia and the other is approx 8mm dia. Does the smaller one go to the bottom of the throttle body?
I can take a pic if this doesn't make sense.

Could some one please double check both of the above on theirs please and lets us know?
Thanks heaps.

[Newtothefourbeworld]

if i remember correctly i think it goes to the bottom of the intake manifold? i could be wrong but its too cold outside to go check right now! i will let you know for sure next time im at the car