V8 engines for your 4x4??

[enginefactory]

I thought it was time to get a poll going about V8 engine choices for our 4x4's. There are so many mixed opinions and I thought it would be good to see if there was a preference for a particular setup.

I've had heaps of different opinions from talking to people and most of the time, its always come down to the cost factor which has determined which engines they would select.

If money wasn't an option, which engine would you choose and why? Is the Horsepower, Torque, Weight, Fuel Economy, ease of installation - engine bay space etc?

Would you choose Fuel Injection, Carby, Diesel, Straight Gas?

How much HP and TQ does a 4wd really need, what would you be happy with?

What make, model 4x4 do you own and would put a V8 into?

[want33s]

In what type/size 4wd??
EG: F100 and Sierra would be totally different RE: engine replacement.

[joeblow]

TOJO 4.0 Litre.

[Struth]

Different engines for different vehicles as mentioned.

Torque over out right power would be best IMO,

My 5.0 in a 4 Runner goes well over 2000 rpm and takes off like a rocket at 3000 rpm, great for a commodore.

But for daily driving in a 4WD more torque at say 1200 rpm plus would make the driving experience much nicer and save on my 20L per 100km fuel usage.

Also when in low range there is a fine line between having the required torque and braking traction when operating in the 1800 rpm plus range compared to having the torque come on at the 1200 rpm I mentioned.

So IMO V8 engines that bring on peak torque as low as possible in the rev range are the best bet for daily driven/weekend warriors.

If I had the time and money I would stroke my 304 to 355 to get the low down torque happening.

I chose the EFI engine for several reasons, not the least of which is bang for buck as far as power and torque go vs an NA engine.
But also because of the relevant reliability and smoothness of the EFI and the way it effortlessly pours it power on in a nice curve.


Cheers

[enginefactory]

Hey want33s,

I've edited my original quetions an added the type of 4wd one in there.

Cheers,

Mark
www.enginefactory.com.au

[lay80n]

To add another variable too - what type of use. A winch truck or desert race style truck is going to want a good top end. A crawler is going to want a good responsive motor all round with good low end, but smooth power up top for wheel speed. A tourer is going to want effortless low down grunt to lope along for large km's.

Sorry to make it worse hahaha.

Layto...

[chimpboy]

I think you want low-end torque in a fourby for more than just crawling, I think it is also because of the sheer weight of the vehicle. So even for the race style stuff I would want something with a bit more low-end emphasis than the average car engine.

The problem with all your options is that they are still pushrod designs which imho is just buying more old tech. I would like to see an OHC option on your list eg VH45, 1UZFE etc.

But, from your list, I would just pick the torquiest one I could fit in my engine bay

FWIW I have a 4.6 litre Rover V8 in my 4WD, which is claimed to make "222 hp (166 kW) at 4750 rpm and 300 ft·lbf (407 N·m) at 2600 rpm". I find it adequate but if it ever dies I'll look at a bigger one.

[want33s]

I've been thinking about repowering our thirsty FJ62 lately..
I think for it I'd be happy with a 351C on gas so I'd tick the small block box but a turbo diesel V8 out of a new cruiser would be good too...

Picking the best engine isn't always number one consideration, sometimes cost is the deciding factor. A stroker carby 308 will do pretty much the same job as an LS1 at half the price.

Too many options out there to decisively say that ONE is the best.

[mkpatrol]

FWIW I have a 4.6 litre Rover V8 in my 4WD, which is claimed to make "222 hp (166 kW) at 4750 rpm and 300 ft·lbf (407 N·m) at 2600 rpm". I find it adequate but if it ever dies I'll look at a bigger one.

One of the reasons I dont own one, I always thought the power output was not worth the fuel consumption.

Dont get me wrong, I love driving them for the comfort & they were way ahead in the early days when everything was leaf sprung but Love diesels for the bush & my Patrol was cheap.

Having said that it gives me the shits on the highway so I am my own worst enemy as far as having diesel blinkers is concerned.


So Enginefactory, I answered V8 diesel because it would suit me best for what I currently do with my rig, touring & towing. Its no mud racer or OBC Rig.

If I was going to build a toy with possibly the intent of doing OBC or something like it that wasnt going to be driven everyday I would go big block (possible forced induction & cos I am a power junkie) & auto juse because I could.

[mkpatrol]

I've been thinking about repowering our thirsty FJ62 lately..
I think for it I'd be happy with a 351C on gas so I'd tick the small block box but a turbo diesel V8 out of a new cruiser would be good too...

Go 460, physically not much bigger than a Clevo.

I have driven a few differnt F trucks over the years with hottie Clevo's & Windsors in them, the owners always used to brag about how well they went but I was still yawning. I drove one with a 460 in iton day, I went from this to on the first pedal push.

[chimpboy]

FWIW I have a 4.6 litre Rover V8 in my 4WD, which is claimed to make "222 hp (166 kW) at 4750 rpm and 300 ft·lbf (407 N·m) at 2600 rpm". I find it adequate but if it ever dies I'll look at a bigger one.

One of the reasons I dont own one, I always thought the power output was not worth the fuel consumption.

Actually I find the fuel consumption surprisingly good! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the TB42 Maverick was. It used over 50% more fuel than the RR does, admittedly with bigger rubber.

[KiwiBacon]

Besides a duramax, there aren't any V8 diesels you'd swap into a normal 4x4.
The old IDI 6.2 and 6.5 chevs don't have much going for them.

[mkpatrol]

FWIW I have a 4.6 litre Rover V8 in my 4WD, which is claimed to make "222 hp (166 kW) at 4750 rpm and 300 ft·lbf (407 N·m) at 2600 rpm". I find it adequate but if it ever dies I'll look at a bigger one.

One of the reasons I dont own one, I always thought the power output was not worth the fuel consumption.

Actually I find the fuel consumption surprisingly good! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the TB42 Maverick was. It used over 50% more fuel than the RR does, admittedly with bigger rubber.

That why I dont own a petrol one


Figures? I am averaging between 12 - 14/100 in my diesel & as its not a daily driver any more I have been tossing up wether to go back to petty or not.

[jessie928]

late model powerstroke/duramax diesel.

mapped correctly, it can behave however you want

Jes

[DamTriton]

Pointless poll as there are too many variables, and no "best" of anything - each has their strengths and weaknesses.

[Struth]

Pointless poll as there are too many variables, and no "best" of anything - each has their strengths and weaknesses.

It has relevance if you take into acount peoples posts re the reason for their particular choice of V8.

Convert the various reasons into a matrix of required and preffered criteria and you can establish the specimen groups requirements in a 4WD V8.

Cheers

[jessie928]

Pointless poll as there are too many variables, and no "best" of anything - each has their strengths and weaknesses.

It has relevance if you take into acount peoples posts re the reason for their particular choice of V8.

Convert the various reasons into a matrix of required and preffered criteria and you can establish the specimen groups requirements in a 4WD V8.

Cheers

on outers?
LOL

[berad]

I wouldnt run any of the above v8s, big heavy motors that make the hilux suspension cry, a 4cyl fi has plenty enough low down torque and the top end to match the 8's, imo the problem most v8's have, is they have not kept up in the technology around to aid them in the fuel consumption, ease of service etc etc.

I'm just not a big v8 fan, will give one a go one day, but havn't seen any that i've been in that impress me for power that is useable and for the money that has been spent, compared too what i've built and close mates have for a fraction of the cost, although the 4's are fi which gives them the edge. As i said im biased.

Although while browsing the latest street machine, found a chavelle running a powermax??? 6.6 and twin gt37rs making 900rwhp and 1200 with the big red button, obviously not got for low down torque but its eye opening seeing a diesel drag car

[Jacked]

i would go a holden 5L in a shorty/middy
gen3/4 in a LWB

main reason being local spares, local knowledge, ease of instalation and space.

More then enough torque/power. Plenty of power up options later on.

I dont like vh45's or 1uz's as they are harder to convert, more to go wrong, i think they are underpowered, harder to get spares, harder to tune, more delicate to the surroundings (a 5L is alot more likely to survive a drink of swamp water or contaminated oil). Not saying they arnt stronger i just feel they arnt as "tough". Thats my OPINION though, we all know 6 bolt mains etc look stronger on papper but im yet to see a 1uz that started its first 80,000as a bt1, then sold to 6 different p platers for the next 150,000 kms then put in a rig for another 100,000.

[Dirty]

Can be broken down into components quite easily I would have thought and then make compromises to suit the individual application.

1) As many cubes as you can get, no point skimping if you are going to the effort of a transplant. If a BB fits the biggest for you chosen brand, SB same again.

2) As light as possible, more reliant to a smaller vehicle like a hilux in which I would be looking at a alloy block like the LS1 as you are not going to produce the horsepower to rip it apart. When talking Patrol/LC then cast BB are fine.

3) For a competition vehicle petrol and/or gas. EFI is the only option if you are going to go petrol. Touring rig I would be looking at diesel.

4) Turbo or NA. On a petrol motor this is decided by $$$ and engine space. Definitely on a diesel.

When talking petrol motors anything in the 6L+ can be tuned for heaps of low down torque or high end power via ports, cams and fuel maps. So the brand doesn't really matter.

If playing in the 4-5L bracket the addition of a turbo/super charger can help in adding additional low down torque, but a SB is going to be cheaper.

Ultimate setups:

Touring (Unlimitd $$) - GU with Duramax (Auto)
Touring (Sensible $$) - GU with TD42 (Manual)

Weekend Warrior (Unlimitd $$) - LC/GU/GQ Ute with 632ci
Weekend Warrior (Sendible $$) - Hilux with LS1 (alloy block)

- David.

[berad]

i would go a holden 5L in a shorty/middy
gen3/4 in a LWB

main reason being local spares, local knowledge, ease of instalation and space.

More then enough torque/power. Plenty of power up options later on.

I dont like vh45's or 1uz's as they are harder to convert, more to go wrong, i think they are underpowered, harder to get spares, harder to tune, more delicate to the surroundings (a 5L is alot more likely to survive a drink of swamp water or contaminated oil). Not saying they arnt stronger i just feel they arnt as "tough". Thats my OPINION though, we all know 6 bolt mains etc look stronger on papper but im yet to see a 1uz that started its first 80,000as a bt1, then sold to 6 different p platers for the next 150,000 kms then put in a rig for another 100,000.

I dont know about underpowered, sure they dont make huge power, but for a baby v8, the holden 6 and ford 6 are the same cc practically, spares yes harder, but not hard import motors are looked after these days in aus, and everyman and his dog owns an import yard, but imo technology will always bring certain problems, although for a motor that is alot lighter, has quad overhead cams, the internal strength to run twin turbo and not be driven nicely for over 2 years and still be running on bog stock internals (proven time and time again). 6bolt mains are ofcourse better on paper , as well as a reinforcing plate on the bottom end (around sump) to stop it breaking apart.

Different horses for different courses.

Local knowledge is not a disadvantage for the 1uz, just as many people selling/fabricating/tuning/building monster 1uz/import motors as there is what i call meathead mobiles. haha jokes
1uzfe,(claimed) 199kw 4.0 dohc
holden 5l (claimed) 165kw.It mostly stayed that way, only HSV are different, untill series II VS-Vt Series I which had 175kw

the ls series are a different story, caught up a bit in technology side of things etc etc.

[chimpboy]

Yeah I can see an argument for an LS over a VH45 or 1UZFE but not for the holden 5L. It's a waste of effort to put those in anything. I'd sooner have a straight six out of a taxi than a holden 5L.

[Jacked]

berad i just dont like them. Partially due to not nearly as much experience with them, Partially due to every v8 soarer i have worked on has been a lemon.

Technology is the way foward and they are good. I just dont think they suit a 4by in the middle of the bush.
I wouldnt when i can get 5L and a full manualised t700, more torque based/lpg based cam with a bit of a freshen up for the same price as a 1uz.

But im more of a budget builder

[Struth]

Yeah I can see an argument for an LS over a VH45 or 1UZFE but not for the holden 5L. It's a waste of effort to put those in anything. I'd sooner have a straight six out of a taxi than a holden 5L.

Why, what is wrong with the Holden 5.0?

VT has 185kw and 400 plus Nm as well as any Holden EFI having hi flowing heads to boot. Stroke it out to 355 and you have abundant torque as well. Superchargers are off the shelf as are a plethora of performance enhancements.

It is smaller and easier to fit than a 1UZ and much easier to do day to day servicing on, as well drop into any Repco store or reputable auto store in the country and they will be able to order you any consumeable part off of their standard parts lists at standard rates.

These things have in various forms won bathurst over the years, so durability and real world development are hardly an issue either.

Would just like to hear why you think they are a waste of effort

Cheers

[grimbo]

having driven a new 200 series with the turbo V8 in it I want one of them.

Mind you I also used to have a V8 Valiant and it was a lovely motor not as nice as the 440 but still a nice motor that would chug along quite nicely but also was nice at a bit of speed.

Also have driven a 550 Oldsmobile engine Jeep and that was just friggin awesome. It worked from about 800rpm all the way through to 6000 rpm. Very controlled engine

[berad]

Agreed, its personal preference, although if your diy inclined, a 1uz front cut is cheap as chips, not alot else needed.

Winning bathurst is no claim to fame though haha, its only fords old technology vs holdens, all other competition was banned .

although an awd 2.6l twin turbo is going to walk all over you on a track, but there has been others aswell.


Anyway back on topic, all comes down to preference as to why and how.

[Guy]

having driven a new 200 series with the turbo V8 in it I want one of them.

Mind you I also used to have a V8 Valiant and it was a lovely motor not as nice as the 440 but still a nice motor that would chug along quite nicely but also was nice at a bit of speed.

Also have driven a 550 Oldsmobile engine Jeep and that was just friggin awesome. It worked from about 800rpm all the way through to 6000 rpm. Very controlled engine

I was taken for a spin in an old olds with a 455 (from memory) very very nice. Could make big rubber into smoke without to much effort or just tootle about smooth as glass.
Remember thinking at the time it would be a nice transplant into a big heavy 4x4

[Struth]

Winning bathurst is no claim to fame though haha, its only fords old technology vs holdens, all other competition was banned .

Actually it demonstrates a very reliable large CC engine that can handle having it's neck wrung flat out for 1000km straight and doesn't need a turbo spooling up at hi revs to acheive it, after all it's not much use spooling your 2.6 up to 7000rpm to get somewhere in the bush

But the question remains, why would anyone consider transplanting a Holden 5.0 a waste of effort?


Cheers

[Slunnie]

LS9 and an auto. Probably tramp all 4 just off idle and then not long after the power comes on.

[heathgu]

Duramax with the 6 speed allison auto, Thats my choice. Power, economy and what ever i feel like tuning it to do that day.