Turbo setup costs on straight gas, why so much$?

[nastytroll]

12v electric scavange and preasure pumps are already available, and are not expensive. So forget the p/s idea. They are a compact unit also.

[berad]

I think there's too many members in this thread criticising the OP simply so they can prove they know more about turbos than he does, without understanding what he wants to achieve.

I think he's got an interesting idea, and whether or not it will work, he will learn a lot in the process. Why discourage him? It's his time and his money, and he's not as stupid as some seem to have concluded.

If you can't offer anything constructive, STFU. We're all here to learn, so why jump on somebody for not already knowing?

Because if i was serious about designing or producing a kit , the last thing i would do would be to ask a 4x4 forum if i have got the right idea, common sense tells you to research, research and research some more. Then throw the idea out there for people to offer their suggestions/thoughts.

Agreed, we are all here to learn things from others mistakes/ideas etc etc, although over 50% of questions on this forum and any other forum could be avoided if people took some initiative and did a background check on the topic they were enquiring about, very few people purposely go out to discourage, make them look stupid, but take this topic for instance, a quick browse would have told you almost every turbo oiling setup in the WORLD is ran from the motors oil. Granted just because it hasn't been done yet doesn't mean its wrong/stupid etc but basic knowledge tells you, a small resivour of fluid would soon reach extremely high temperatures and would fail before long

Cheap kits don't exist because it is their business's reputation on the line and using cheap often inferior parts could possibly fail before expected, again basic knowledge tells you this, again the years of RESEARCH and testing has gone into designing superior products.

Failing to see why a kit costs 2-3k is to me, not looking at any info out there, a brand new turbo is between 1000-2000 alone, before considering development of manifolds, pipes, materials, profit margins, overheads, advertising, shipping, after sales service/advice, and the list goes on.

I'm not taking the p!ss out of anyone, simply stating how i see this thread and some of the reasons behind my previous posts.

[zagan]

I think there's too many members in this thread criticising the OP simply so they can prove they know more about turbos than he does, without understanding what he wants to achieve.

I think he's got an interesting idea, and whether or not it will work, he will learn a lot in the process. Why discourage him? It's his time and his money, and he's not as stupid as some seem to have concluded.

If you can't offer anything constructive, STFU. We're all here to learn, so why jump on somebody for not already knowing?

I've said what I have because what the kit is for isn't what you'd get a turbo for.

The people I know wanted a turbo in a 1970's mazda 121 on a carbie motor, just so they could run around the car parks showing off the turbo on the motor, they had it in the shop for about 8 months straight and wasn't drivable and spent at least $10,000+ to try and make it work.

They sold it off for a grand and ended up getting a Skyline instead.

Some things you'd like to do, therewill be times you just can't do something, no matter how much you'd like to do it or think it'll be the best idea in the world.

What I can't understand is that this person is wanting to make a cheaper kit than current kits, but have at least 3-4 extra systems hanging off the turbo just to make the turbo work and then expect the whole lot to be bolt on plus be cheaper than the current kits which would be about as simple as a kit could ever be, with out tacking on exhausts/intakes etc into the kits as well.


For me, when I read that he was an engineer or so called one, I knew it'd be some half arsed idea, sorry to say.

[fester2au]

I think here soemthing else that people (namely me for one) get sick of is answering half baked questions which then blow out to something completely different when the poster gets a less than positive response.

It seems we start out to discuss creating a cheap bolt on turbo kit for a gas powered car for owner use in which case the power steering pump ideas and CAd etc etc are not sensible or realistic in the context.

Then we finally find out this is a starting point for a commerical venture of biblical proportions.

Could I susgest if you are in similar circumstances then be honest and upfront about exactly what you are trying to echieve and not be so vague and you may actually get some more reasonable (to your mind) answers.

Me I can't se the link to selling cheap DIY turbo kits to people who spend their time and money on fake NOS and fancy cup holders etc. I'm not even clear on what he wants to do with the power steering pump - is it oil feed or are we now talking fuel feed for gas turbines????

For the record forced induction on gas can't be that hard (when done right) as I recall a ZOOM magazine article of a few years ago with a V8 Falcon running supercharger/s and twin gas mixers etc. I've also seen a turbo'd Sigma runign gas to cover emissions

I also see that selling a "one size fits all" DIY turbo kit that requires no tuning and suits a heap of different configurations to be a warranty and legal claim nightmare especially when aimed at someone who doesn't even have the mechanical aptitude to fit said cup holders mentioned above. Could I susgest you do not sell into litigation hair trigger America or your company won't be aroudn long enough to develop their second product.

[dumbdunce]

I've lurked until now.

I have manufactured/installed a fair number of full and semi custom turbo systems for diesel and carburetted petrol engines. I have done several for my own vehicles and some for customers. I have built, installed and tuned systems for as little as $1000, and made a small profit.

anyone capable of installing their own turbo is capable of installing the kits that are commercially available, in the $3000 region. the kit(s) you are proposing are significantly more complicated and you will find that to achieve salable reliability your production costs will balloon. Although the power steering pump works well on a turbo converted to gas turbine operation, it is an unnecessary complication in a vehicle system - you will never be able to manufacture a motor, pump, coupling, wiring harness (+ controller if you want variable feed), at a price that can compete with a 1/8" NPT tee fitting and a short length of braided silicone hose.

If your idea is really to cater for poseurs who are intent on having their vehicle LOOK and SOUND like they are turbocharged, I contend that there is a market for things like exhaust manifold heat shields that look like a turbo, engine covers that look like intercoolers and associated plumbing, "turbo" decals to stick on the outside of the vehicle, and something along the lines of a microprocessor controlled sound generation device with under bonnet/ under vehicle speakers to generate the sounds of turbo spool, blowoff valve operation, and wastegate flutter. these sounds could easily be controlled by things like throttle position, clutch/brake switches, and solid state accelerometers which are very cheap now. for these things there is definitely a market - every weekend there are dozens of wannabes in Supercheap looking for something "unique" to jazz up their falcamrydore. If you can build a set of engine covers/manifold heat shields for a commodore that make it look like a twin turbo for $500, and a sound machine that makes it sound like a turbo for $500, wNackers will pay for it.

cheap, easy, bolt on turbo kits really can not be done as easily as you would like to think. there is a LOT of competition in the turbocharger kit market, especially in the 4WD aftermarket, and people will pay what the market will bear - go and try and haggle for a great price on a turbo kit for a landcruiser or patrol, you'll find there isn't much room to move.

I don't think anyone has tried to shoot anyone else down in flames in this thread, which is a credit to the outerlimits community. Most of the comments in the negative seem to be aimed at protecting a bloke from potential engineering and financial disaster. It's hard to be constructive about things that have already been shown not to work. at the end of the day though, its your time and money; after weighing the advice and opinions you came here to receive, you should be able to make better informed decisions than if you just jumped into it without asking anyone.


cheerio

DD

[Jaffa]

If you have decided that you are going to do make some sort of bolt on turbo kit, why not make one for a vehicle that you cant easily get a turbo kit for (maybe ea falcon?) and run low boost, 2-3psi with a megasquirt (google it) 8 psi is not low, RB30ET's run 7psi standard, this boosts the power output from 100kw to 150kw (as compared to RB30E), in addition to the turbo and ancillaries the RB30ET's have a whole heap of slightly different parts, compression is lower, oil pump is different, intake manifold and plenum chamber are different, larger throttle body, larger diff, bigger gear box/auto, bigger injectors, bigger brakes, different computer, different wiring loom, knock sensor etc etc.

I have no idea (and dont care) whether you can make a reliable kit for the $$'s you are talking about but I think making something aimed at a very low power boost may be a better option