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SCANAS wrote:I don't run a thermostat tho which might be the cause. Mike Vine took it out and told me never to put one back in. Can't say I was that confident at the time but never had a problem, and he does lay claim to turboing over 1000 2H's in his life so he knows more than me/
I don't think running without a thermostat is a good idea, the coolant can circulate too quickly through the radiator. If anything cut the guts out of thermostat but leave the rest of it in there.
Running without a thermostat is never a good idea. How is your engine supposed to keep a stable operating temp without one?
Screams "hack job" to me. If it heats or overheats then there's a problem to be solved.
x2.
running without a thermostat is bad for all sorts or reasons. some of the coolant will continually bypass the radiator which can result in hot spots and localised overheating which will never show up on the gauge. the speed that the coolant circulates can also have a negative effect on heat absorbtion and rejection - heat transfer takes time, and if the coolant is circulating too fast, it does not have time to absorb heat form the engine nor reject it in the radiator. the result can be a hot engine but cool coolant, so although the gauge looks fine, the engine may be suffering. one of the worst aspects of running without a thermostat can be extended warmup time (or never achieving proper running temperature) which can result in accelerated engine wear, poor performance, increased emissions, poor fuel economy, water and fuel dilation of the oil. the thermostat is a critical component for temperature regulation system, don't mess with it. if manufacturers could get away with leaving them out, they would. 60 series radiator and cooling system is legendary, you will never exceed its capacity if it is in good condition.
Wambat wrote:it was just the apprentice who rang today, and my mech has another qualifyed bloke running his shop for this and next week, so when he gets back i will ask him, what he thinks, and then they will give me symptoms, i just took the advice on board today, and thought i would ask the fella when he gets back to oz.
what symptoms are there normaly, so that i know when i am driving it too.
apparent low power, rough/uneven running, fuel contamination of the oil and possibly white/grey smoke can symptoms of pump problems, the smoke,or poor performance at higher rpm, are more likely to be timing related. a fuel system restriction (filter/pickup/ crimped line) or injectors are far more likely culprits than the pump itself. eliminate all other possibilities first. if the pump isn't loose or leaking, and there is no evidence of significant fuel contamination of your oil, it's probably not the pump. if it is the pump, it's going to be a lot cheaper to get one from a wrecker and change it over rather than having yours overhauled - they can be very expensive to repair.
yeah i am aware they are costly to repair, which is why i have spent the last half hour looking into the ls1 conversion. apart from the motor, the mounts, the exhaust, and the loom and bell housing, what other things need to be used? i would have thought that with all the sensors and that on the ls1 it would require alot of parts, and in thinking that, that leave alot of stuff to go wrong with when everything gts full of mud.
so just thinking after typing that even though i would like to hear the roar of an 8, i think looking at a 12ht would be a good idea if the pump goes.
if you are sticking with the 60 series manual gearbox (H55F) you will also need a clutch, and overhauling the gearbox is a good idea if you want it to last. figure $800 for the gearbox and $500 for the transfer overhaul, if you are taking it to a shop.
how much work are you going to do yourself and how much do you need to get done at a shop? drive in/drive out you wouldn't expect much change from $13 - $15k for the full conversion. ask yourself if the truck is really worth it. if you are going to tackle hard trails the answer is probably no. if you are under 30 it will be virtually uninsurable and its resale value will be a fraction of the conversion cost. it will drink fuel like a fish. if the sound of a V8 is all you want, buy an old rangie and put a big fat exhaust on it - I'm not saying the 60 is no good, but is it really worth pouring $$$ into?
if the 2H goes, slap a turbo on it, drive it hard, and when it blows up, then worry about the next engine.
just to clear up(not that there is any difference in engine and gear box really, but its a 75) lol
i would tackle most of it myself if i could, what would stop me is the lack of a shed of garage,
i can do without the noise, if i only wanted the noise id fit a 5 liter to my commodore,
and i am under 30(23) so insurance is still a pain in the hip pocket,
the only thing i hate about the 12ht to 75 series, is that the 75 never came with the 12ht, if it did i could put it in and just ring vicroads and they would only want the engine no, but cause 75s never came with one, i would probably have to get a engineers report.
ah well, hopefully its not the pump. i guess time will tell, and me having a look at the places you mentioned before.
on another note, does any one know much about MTQ(a turbo work shop in laverton in melbourne) they are three doors down from my work, it might be an idea to try talking to them fellas.
Dumdunce i agree with everything you say especially the long time to get to operating temp ( i run it for 5 -10 mins before I drive ) and also the heat absorbtion and rejection problems from the current high flow rate. Hasn't really been as issue (although i agree localised hot spots don't show on the gauge and the coolant temp is prob lower than the block)
The reason Mike Vine leaves them out is that he believes toyota thermostats always fail shut and create steam pockets in the head which will crack it. Can you shed any light on this or suggest a way I could monitor the temp on both sides of the thermostat, where would I plumb another probe?
I'm not quitting drinking, I'm retiring at the top of my game - sporting comeback likely.
SCANAS wrote:Dumdunce i agree with everything you say especially the long time to get to operating temp ( i run it for 5 -10 mins before I drive ) and also the heat absorbtion and rejection problems from the current high flow rate. Hasn't really been as issue (although i agree localised hot spots don't show on the gauge and the coolant temp is prob lower than the block)
The reason Mike Vine leaves them out is that he believes toyota thermostats always fail shut and create steam pockets in the head which will crack it. Can you shed any light on this or suggest a way I could monitor the temp on both sides of the thermostat, where would I plumb another probe?
your existing temp sensor is on the hot side of the thermostat so an unusually elevated reading on the gauge can indicate a thermostat problem. temperature difference across the thermostat isn't necessarily going to tell you anything, heat transfer through the aluminium and coolant ensures that both sides are about the same temperature anyway.
thermostats are incredibly reliable, they are not even a scheduled service item which means the manufacturer does not expect them to wear out or fail during the normal service life of the vehicle. that said, I have seen them fail - open, closed, part open - and the most common causes of failure are poor coolant (using just water or too little concentrate = no lubrication), overheating (caused by whatever - radiator blockage, coolant loss, abuse), and non-use (they seize up if they don't cycle regularly). The thermostat is almost always the victim of cooling system failure, hardly ever the cause. (my 80 series turbo diesel has almost 300,000km and still has the original thermostat. the coolant has been changed twice in its lifetime and tested at every service).
if you were to replace a 2h with a 12ht, are there somethings i should be thinking about, a 12ht should mate up to my engine mounts and gearbox, but what about the wiring??? will the 2h wiring loom start the 12ht, or do i need to tap into the 2h loom and make sure i get the wiring loom with thee 12ht???
12H-T wiring is even simpler than 2H, there is no EDIC, just an air shutoff flap. temp, starter, tach, oil pressure, glow plugs all the same. (though with direct injection you can leave the glows disconnected unless you're in antarctica.)
12H-T will run without any electrics at all as long as you have air and fuel connected.
dumbdunce wrote:
12H-T will run without any electrics at all as long as you have air and fuel connected.
i know that one lol, in my 60 the alternator died, which led the battery to lose charge after i had already been driving, was night all my lights turned off and i had a small glow from the instument cluster, drove past a cop booking some one else, thank god, got it home and a new alternator the day after. solved that problem.
so would that mean that the 12ht conectors for the things the 12ht and 2 h share would be the same?? could i do the swap in a day ??
the little servo motor with the arm that attaches to the fuel shutoff/overinject lever on the 2H fuel pump. the 12H-T doesn't have one, it just uses a flap in the intake to shut off the air to kill the engine.
yes there's no reason why the swap couldn't be done in a day assuming you have the tools and space to do it.
tools yes, no problem, and if i knew what i needed and was prepared i could have the space, and could have two days to do it, as i could do it at work where i have an engine crane and that, but would have to have it done buy monday morning, although that being said, i could do it at home with an engine crane too, but i wouldnt want to be taking to long there either,
i have taken out a vs commodore v6 with an auto, and put in the same motor that came from a manual vt(had a brass bush in the hole where the shaft for the input went in) had that done in 4 hours in a carport on gravel with a block and tackle, but they were exactly the same motor using exactly the same connectors. (also i do realize there id a difference but the principals would be similar)
if i have to modify things(wiring loom) that changes everything,
i do think i am capable of it, but still sit on the reserved side,
if i were to decide to put in a efi holden 5ltr, i assume it would be about the same work as the gen three, different gains i know that, but what can be done to the 5 ltr to lower torque in the rev range? would cam and chip do it, or do you have to think about stroking it?
Wambat wrote:if i were to decide to put in a efi holden 5ltr, i assume it would be about the same work as the gen three, different gains i know that, but what can be done to the 5 ltr to lower torque in the rev range? would cam and chip do it, or do you have to think about stroking it?
the EFI 5 litre has pretty good low rpm torque. if you're not happy with the crawling characteristics you can always re-gear the diffs and transfer case.
if you want a V8 petrol 4Wd just buy a rangie? a conversion is a lot of work and you will never ever see even a fraction of that money again.
SCANAS wrote:Dumdunce i agree with everything you say especially the long time to get to operating temp ( i run it for 5 -10 mins before I drive ) and also the heat absorbtion and rejection problems from the current high flow rate. Hasn't really been as issue (although i agree localised hot spots don't show on the gauge and the coolant temp is prob lower than the block)
The reason Mike Vine leaves them out is that he believes toyota thermostats always fail shut and create steam pockets in the head which will crack it. Can you shed any light on this or suggest a way I could monitor the temp on both sides of the thermostat, where would I plumb another probe?
I run one electric in the normal pasition and a mechanical in top rad hose, plus a pyro and you can easily pick when the thermostat is on the way out from the readings. Only use genuine Toyota Thermostat after one non genuine piece of crap. cheers
its moe the fact that if the 2h is on its way out, for the price of a re build or a second hand 12ht i can have a holden efi cheeper(mates rates and all that crap) mind you i havent found out if they can get me a hold of the 12ht yet. i would much prefer the 12ht, though i would love the sound, but its not sound related its use related.
