Diesel Starting Issues???

[Neatas 60]

Hello to all and thanks for looking,

I tried to look through as many topics as i could to see if this was posted recently but to no avail.
I have tried to give as much info as possible to aid in the best possible answers.

I own a 60 2h with a after market turbo.
Couple of months ago i had starting issues. On start up the car would idle rough and blow smoke and puffs of soot would come out exhaust. This would last for around 20 secs then car would run fine.
My mech organized for a diesel mech to come look at the car start up he said the pump and injectors didnt look very old.
The mech found that the car had 6V glow plugs fitted and that they were buggered.
He fitted new 12V plugs but the car still has the start up problem and is getting worse the colder it gets.
Ive found that if i start the car let it run for 3 or so secs then shut it down and reglow it runs better. It seems to have a miss that clears itself after min or so.
The car has 450k on clock but when i purchased car was told it had had engine work 6 or 7 years ago.
Im a fitter by trade but no nothing about diesels.


Thanks in Advance

Scott

[T_Diesel]

Sounds like its your glow circuit not working properly. Take it to an auto elec who knows about glow circuits, you might be able to wire in a button or something to get them to glow for as long as you want.

[Leighroy1984]

Maybe glow plug timer, or incorrect glow plugs. If it is ment to have 6Volts plugs then 12Volt plugs will not do the job. Just a thought.

[berad]

This question will be asked 100 times in the next month or 2, most of the time it is a sick glow plug or the glow plugs are not 100%, and because its become colder you notice this, replacing them or glowing it twice will fix the problem most of the time.

[bazzle]

Once it fires up either stop it as you did, and restart or drive off slowly and it will clear itself under compression heat.

If it does start I wouldnt fret too much.

Bazzle

[bigbrowndog]

You will need to check what year model you have to get the correct glowplugs, from memory I think there are 3 different sets for the 2H. The resistor bar cuts the voltage down to the glowplug. Also on the later 1988 models the temperature sensor has to be working for the glow system to operate correctly. When my temp sensor failed [$130.00] I just changed it to a manual switch to glow the plugs as a similar sensor on the commodore was $28.00 but the screw in part on the bottom is a different size and won't fit the Hj75.

[zagan]

checked and maybe changed the air filter as well?

extra smoke can mean a diesel is running too rich.

Could also be a dying battery as well, doesn't charge up everything and doesn't start up properly.

I had the battery problem would take a little bit before starting didn't know it was a dead battery till after the thrid jump start and found out the battery only had 130CCAs left in it, when I need 200+CCA to start up.

[berad]

With a clogged filter you notice a big difference in torque, i know after a big weekend away somewhere the truck struggles alot more than usual. If the starter is turning over as per usual the battery won't be an issue either.

Although usually something small like that you bypass checking.

[bigbrowndog]

Cheers, I hope this is some use from the Workshop Manual,regards Gazza.

[beinthemud]

Hello to all and thanks for looking,

I tried to look through as many topics as i could to see if this was posted recently but to no avail.
I have tried to give as much info as possible to aid in the best possible answers.

I own a 60 2h with a after market turbo.
Couple of months ago i had starting issues. On start up the car would idle rough and blow smoke and puffs of soot would come out exhaust. This would last for around 20 secs then car would run fine.
My mech organized for a diesel mech to come look at the car start up he said the pump and injectors didnt look very old.
The mech found that the car had 6V glow plugs fitted and that they were buggered.
He fitted new 12V plugs but the car still has the start up problem and is getting worse the colder it gets.
Ive found that if i start the car let it run for 3 or so secs then shut it down and reglow it runs better. It seems to have a miss that clears itself after min or so.
The car has 450k on clock but when i purchased car was told it had had engine work 6 or 7 years ago.
Im a fitter by trade but no nothing about diesels.


Thanks in Advance

Scott

Putting 12v glow plugs in a 6v system isnt good If you have a 6v system if your in a hotter area you could put 9v as they would be slightly colder but not 12v take them out and put 6v back but this will only make it easier to start

[beinthemud]

But this dosent explain the poor running

Well maybe if it dosent improve when the engine gets warmer so could be to cold to start with
So check that you dont have a 12system with a 6volt step down for the Glow plugs as alot of early toys did

[PJ.zook]

There are plenty of possibilities to explain hard starting and running, but from what you describe in it hard starting and then starting easy after being switched off again, two things come to mind.

First is timing, if the timing is slightly off it will cause hard starting, but once its started theres a little heat retained in cylinder, enough to easily start again.
Second is fuel related, if youre fuel is running back and not being retained at pump, that could explain hard starting, and then once its started it needs time to run back, so starting up again in short time is easier.

[beinthemud]

There are plenty of possibilities to explain hard starting and running, but from what you describe in it hard starting and then starting easy after being switched off again, two things come to mind.

First is timing, if the timing is slightly off it will cause hard starting, but once its started theres a little heat retained in cylinder, enough to easily start again.
Second is fuel related, if youre fuel is running back and not being retained at pump, that could explain hard starting, and then once its started it needs time to run back, so starting up again in short time is easier.

and again x2

but 12volt glows could also explain the first bit not creating enough heat

[Neatas 60]

Thanks guys for your replies. i have somewhere to start to investigate. BB Dig that info is great thanks for that.

A little more info,
Once the engine is warm the car starts spot on, no smoke no miss just start and drive. It is only after sitting for 10 or so hours that it has its probs starting.
Every time it misses or hiccups a little puff of smoke comes out the exhaust. Same as when it starts cold just lots of smoke and runs real rough.

The mech checked that 12V was to the resistor bar.
My resistor bar made from ally is this normal? maybe the ally doesn't conduct well?

Cheers

Scott

[beinthemud]

Thanks guys for your replies. i have somewhere to start to investigate. BB Dig that info is great thanks for that.

A little more info,
Once the engine is warm the car starts spot on, no smoke no miss just start and drive. It is only after sitting for 10 or so hours that it has its probs starting.
Every time it misses or hiccups a little puff of smoke comes out the exhaust. Same as when it starts cold just lots of smoke and runs real rough.

The mech checked that 12V was to the resistor bar.
My resistor bar made from ally is this normal? maybe the ally doesn't conduct well?

Cheers

Scott

could thought mine was tin
The things is why 6volt glows came out of it
If its 12v to them i can only think somethings not right with power delevery as 6v will glow twice as hot with 12volt throught it.
I would put 6volt back in and see
If it gets warm and run and starts ok then chances are it the glow plugs
Try tuning the key on till the glow light goes out do it about 3 times in arow then 4th time start it if it starts better put 6volt plugs back in if it fixs it get a new mechanic

[Neatas 60]

Info on the correct plug for these things is hard to find!
Bursons told me not to bother calling the other spare parts companys due to the fact that noone else will have the correct info. WTF.
Thought i would just drop into Repco on way home sunday and ask the question.
Well wasn't i surprised when i got the answer i wanted and the 6V Glow Plug to suit 12 V systems.
Even better there Bosch and i purchased them at 25% off.

I fitted them today and car starts AOK.


Thanks Guys for your responses.

Scott

[beinthemud]

Info on the correct plug for these things is hard to find!
Bursons told me not to bother calling the other spare parts companys due to the fact that noone else will have the correct info. WTF.
Thought i would just drop into Repco on way home sunday and ask the question.
Well wasn't i surprised when i got the answer i wanted and the 6V Glow Plug to suit 12 V systems.
Even better there Bosch and i purchased them at 25% off.

I fitted them today and car starts AOK.


Thanks Guys for your responses.

Yup and Im from R&E Auto Parts and I gave you that Information Before those two Idiots (bursons and Repco)

Scott

[beinthemud]

Info on the correct plug for these things is hard to find!
Bursons told me not to bother calling the other spare parts companys due to the fact that noone else will have the correct info. WTF.
Thought i would just drop into Repco on way home sunday and ask the question.
Well wasn't i surprised when i got the answer i wanted and the 6V Glow Plug to suit 12 V systems.
Even better there Bosch and i purchased them at 25% off.

I fitted them today and car starts AOK.


Thanks Guys for your responses.


Scott

Yup Im From R&E Auto Parts and I gave You that Information Before Those Two idiots (bursons & repco)

[superslowlux]

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but what if, maybe there is air in the lines, an air leak that when cools down overnight contracts and sucks air into the lines? Tho must be a noticeable one for this sort of problem?

[beinthemud]

Which lines mate

[beinthemud]

Opps sorry for the Double posts boys Bourbons kicking in a bit quick

[superslowlux]

Ah fuel lines, maybe primer is cactus?

[beinthemud]

If there wasent fuel at the injectors or Filter or no pressure when you take off the diesel tank cap
If it turned over fast and didnt try to kick
certainly though what you said could be a factor
But I think he said (im to lasey to scroll up the page) he said His Mechanic checked fuel or pump And I certainly take anything anyone who calls Him self a mechanic with a grain of salt.

[beinthemud]

But what you might find with no fuel pressure is it just turning over

What he had was when it warmed alittle it got easier to start
But not enough to warm fuel lines or anything
This is only part of the equation but initial or start up combustion needs heat (or heat helps)
IE : A warmer engine or enviroment Helps a Diesel start eaisier

[superslowlux]

All i know is that when i had a faulty primer it would run like crap for bout 20secs in the morning, rough as then all of a sudden smooth as. Only happened when sitting overnight.

[beinthemud]

All i know is that when i had a faulty primer it would run like crap for bout 20secs in the morning, rough as then all of a sudden smooth as. Only happened when sitting overnight.

True and is always a consideration

[Neatas 60]

All i know is that when i had a faulty primer it would run like crap for bout 20secs in the morning, rough as then all of a sudden smooth as. Only happened when sitting overnight.

Ok, now can someone direct me to the Primer. I would like to check it out is there any test i can do??

I didnt drive the car today to see how it started.

Cheers.

[superslowlux]

Mate, only advice i can give is check all fuel line connections for any trace of fuel, your primer, not sure bout that engine but mine is above the fuel filter, another one that happened to me is the fuel filter seams gave way or something was dodgy about, hard to see but felt the diesel behind it leaking, it was only 2 months old too, changed it just incase and problem solved again?

[beinthemud]

Mate, only advice i can give is check all fuel line connections for any trace of fuel, your primer, not sure bout that engine but mine is above the fuel filter, another one that happened to me is the fuel filter seams gave way or something was dodgy about, hard to see but felt the diesel behind it leaking, it was only 2 months old too, changed it just incase and problem solved again?

Wow youve got that stuck in your head Mate
Even after he said that a change of glow plugs fixed it
Neat
It mostly is on the filter
Looks like a big Button
Or a dial

[superslowlux]

Sorry, missed the part of the thread about being fixed with new plugs, too many beers lastnight? If its fixed its fixed, put the bonnet down, she is done.