Car Hoons and Suspension heights 4x4s inc

[Slunnie]

trim height being the highest point of the vehicle.ie roof
in the owners manuel,it lists variants under
specifications?
or is trim something other?

VSI 50 regards it as the top of your wheel arches.

So are you saying that if you create flares that lower the wheel arch height by coming around the tyre then you can lift the vehicle by more?

I don't think that they will come at that, and so I don't think that they will reference off a cut guard.

[Bush65]

Does anyone know where the justification for all these restrictions has come from? Or is it just some politicians useless scare mongering policy that sounds good to the average Joe who just drive cars.

I modify my vehicles to suit both my tastes in looks and suitability for the job I wish to use it for. My old street cars were modified to suit the club racing I used to do, my 4wd is modified so I can explore our wonderful wilderness. And for a lot of us cars/4wd's are not just a form of transport. They are a hobby, an interest, an expression of our individuality , some even consider it an artform. (I know of quite a few hotrods that fit that last category) What would happen if artists were all told that all new art could only be created in 2 colours and only to a maximum size of 300 cm2.

If it could be proven to me that a substantial reduction in road trauma and death could be acheived by this I would be all for it, but I cannot see any justification on what I consider to be a political stunt to get votes from the misinformed public.

Who knows!

They have stated every possible excuse that is hard to refute, even though there is no evidence in the accident statistics.

For example VSI 50 states:

Occupant protection* - The design of a vehicle incorporates minimum specified levels of occupant protection that help safeguard persons travelling in the vehicle in the event of it crashing. This is usually achieved by the front and rear bumpers, crumple zones and by providing locally strengthened sections in the vehicle’s structure. These are positioned at designated heights above the ground specifically to absorb the impact from another vehicle. Altering a vehicle’s height correspondingly alters the position of these safety features, which may reduce the levels of protection the vehicle affords its occupants.

My 84 rangie is better than stock in handling, braking etc. I very much doubt these were designed with crumple zones in the late 1960's, but how could I prove to some bureaucratic person that the position of the designed crumple zone and strengthened areas hasn't been affected by the lift.

We can reasonably argue that engineering signatories can evaluate many of the issues such as braking for example (braking could be improved to suit larger tyres), but they have thrown so many other issues in, which can not be so easily countered.

As much as I am pi$$ed off with this, and the many $$$$ now down the drain, I think it is a done deal

I will take great interest into what happens in other states - with national parks closing most of the 4wd tracks and these new issues, NSW sucks.

[mmaaxx]

by the sound of how things are going, if this gets brought in everywhere.......we may as well sell our fourbies and get old pieces of crap to trailer to the forest.....if the forests aren't closed down by the greens to go wheeling in.

They want us to all drive stock standard sedans.......what a PITA!

[zagan]

Does anyone know where the justification for all these restrictions has come from? Or is it just some politicians useless scare mongering policy that sounds good to the average Joe who just drive cars.

The problem comes from people driving into stuff and end up dead or what ever ends up happening.

The end result is that goodie 2 shoes run around knocking their heads into stuff trying to come up with ideas on how to stop people from doing things.

I suppose this law comes from the next door's kid who lowered their car to 5cm and need to drive at 2kph at a 80 deg angle and spend a good 45mins trying to get over the speed bump on the road, that the same guy put on the road so that it's stops everyone from speeding ever again.

I can see a point with not lowering a car to a point where you can't get over the smallest of speed bumps in a car park/road it does become a bit stupid after a while.

though I can't see the point in why the rising side of the law, I mean most lights are probably well out of alignment anyway and probably blinding the other drivers at standard height anyway.

I do wonder though if it'll be enforced?

You'll also note that I didn't say anything about the country towns or roads where this law simply couldn't work anyway yet will still apply.

and then you have all the out of state people driving through NSW that'll be 1 big lol.

I don't think this would effect hot rods all that much as I think most hot rodders stick to a set limit maybe not 15cm but at least 10cm as they wouldn't want to be scraping body parts over everything.

Though it will be interesting with supercars if they are below the 15cm ride height, again another big lol, might even get the law scraped real quick if the people can;t drive their $350,000 Ferrari's in NSW... hey?

[joeblow]

you might find that this comes from the people who were working on the NCOP, 5 out of six of them are from NSW. it appears they don't want to listen to industry experts and find the whole testing thing too hard. who knows, we might see vehicle specific rated shocks and springs......no more mixing and matching allowed.

[hotrod4x4]

What Ferrari have u ever seen lowered 15cm from standard???

As for Hotrods, as has been mentioned, its more than suspension.
My thoughts were that suspensions are set up in the chassis and didn't need lowering etc etc, but the other aspect is the trim height. the ody height and headlight positions etc on a hotrod are far from original.

[mikesmith]

mate i think the point he is trying to make with the ferrari is that its that low standard that it will not pass this test. i have seen and driven some of them and u struggle to get in and out of a lot of normal driveways.

i am from victoria and i think all these rules are a big joke. i spoke to my engineer down here about a year ago to engineer a 3 inch spring and 2 inch body on my patrol and he said its not worth the money and time to do it. would cost well into the thousands to do all the lane change tests and that at a track or suitable venue. then wat if he does roll it who pays for my car and him if he gets injured? i dont think anyone put there hand up for that.

we are really stuck between a rock and hard place atm. mayb we should all start saving and put comp winches on our standard fourbies cause we have to skull drag the thing through the whole forest on the diffs.

joke wat all these rules are doing to not only guys with 4bys but the whole automotive industry there will be no jobs and next to no aftermarket modifying of cars, while it mite sound all good to the pollys the unemployment rate will look against them to!!.

my rant done all i am hoping is this does not pass in NSW and if it does it does not follow to the rest of aus.

[WRXZook]

we are really stuck between a rock and hard place atm. mayb we should all start saving and put comp winches on our standard fourbies cause we have to skull drag the thing through the whole forest on the diffs.

All this has made me think about the thread "The Face"
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic94319-0-asc-0.php
Back then they were driving very difficult sections with good old fashioned driver skills, with some of the more modified vehicles being very lightly modified compared to what seems to be required today.

Who knows where it will all go, but I look like taking a positive out of it all. At 58, I think I am going to get some mileage out of being called a "hoon" with my grandkids.

[outback_pootrol]

edited for resons

[outback_pootrol]

(gone for the public eyes)

[WRXZook]

That should cause a rethink.

[bogged]

just had my say, prob sounds . but its said and its a vote


we are not hoons, we are enthusiests who like having something different to looking like a government car, if we all drove around in cars like the polies do we would look like a stupid breed, i myself am nearly finished putting a heap of money and effort into my 4x4, it will be finished in mid august area, and now you want me to completely re-do my car to suit you guys, its not on, now i have to sell my car in pieces just to make you happy,,,, guess what, if i do sell it in pieces it will be cash to me and nothing to you, but still i am over you people not letting us live, whatever happened to freedom, there is none, you do interest and that stupid gst wank off yous pulled,and take money away from me that i obviosly earnt through working hard (you wouldnt know what that is) and take money from my pay packet each week, DONT YOU THINK YOU HAVE ENOUGH FROM US ALLREADY wake up to yourselves oh and michael daley(lower caps on purpose) sleep with one eye open, there will be a mob of so called hoons rocking up to your joint in protest very soon id say

Oh yea, I can see them revoking it instantly.

[Hulksta]

They want us to all drive stock standard sedans.......what a PITA!

No... they just want us to work for bugger all then pay them income tax and GST on everything... they dont want us to have fun, they dont make much tax from that...

Will they give us the taxes back from all the mods we paid taxes on?

Pollies are public servants right? so is there a way we sack them? (other than votes)

[bogged]

Pollies are public servants right?)

Correct.

so is there a way we sack them? (other than votes)

Not really... get photos of them taking drugs, rooting hookers, or animals, accepting bribes etc.

I think most people here are missing the major hurdle here...
that there are more people AGAINST 4wds, minitrucks, Gino Civics etc, than there are FOR them...

If it comes down to Votes we wont win.

I still say a protest march is the go, this will also bring it into the eyes of 10000s' of people NOT on forums.

[sixdeetoo]

sorry for the hijack - Ive just paid out part A of my certificate but i need to complete:

adjust park brake

Extended brake lines

rear mount for extended brake lines

rear muffler (over sound by 7.1db)

extra rubber hanging below rear mudflaps

blue slip adjustment notice

weighbridge ticket

ok so maybe the list of engineering compliance that I have to do is minmal copared to the nightmare for other

[sixdeetoo]

oh and rego was only 6 weeks ago.

Gee thanks.

[zagan]

Pollies are public servants right?)

Correct.

so is there a way we sack them? (other than votes)

Not really... get photos of them taking drugs, rooting hookers, or animals, accepting bribes etc.

I think most people here are missing the major hurdle here...
that there are more people AGAINST 4wds, minitrucks, Gino Civics etc, than there are FOR them...

If it comes down to Votes we wont win.

I still say a protest march is the go, this will also bring it into the eyes of 10000s' of people NOT on forums.

Taking the photos videos etc still doesn't get them kicked out either, they just get a pay rise on the super given a pat on the back and everyone (us) is told that the problem has been fixed.

Yeah maybe but this law would effect quite a lot of things, as someone else said what's the deal with heavy ridged and semi trucks do these get kicked off the road or kept on the road with a special rego so they can stay in the road.

Then you have anything that is stock but doesn't comply with the rock hard 15cm height law.

[zagan]

What Ferrari have u ever seen lowered 15cm from standard???

As for Hotrods, as has been mentioned, its more than suspension.
My thoughts were that suspensions are set up in the chassis and didn't need lowering etc etc, but the other aspect is the trim height. the ody height and headlight positions etc on a hotrod are far from original.

I don't know what the standard ride height would be for a Ferrari is but I doubt it's 15cm stock.

Some of the supercars are only 1 to 1.3 meters from the ground to the roof, there's no way these car's stock ride height is 15cm from the ground I know the ADRs have to be followed but I would think Ferrari is probably going to get the rules bent a little to get them sold in Australia.

The funny thing is lowering the car closer to the road surface gives better handling and raising will cause extra body roll.

I assume this law is 15cm from ground to the chassis rails it might not be the body (though who knows) in terms of a hot rod you can have stock length shocks but run drop axles etc so you keep the standard suspension handling but have the whole hot rod dropped to the ground so in the end you lose nothing with ride handling.

then again you can use air bags, short length shocks, altered suspension mounts etc to get lower but why would you want to drop real low on a daily driver it'd just become a pain in the ass all over the place.


maybe the best way around this problem is an air bag setup so you can run stock height but raise lower as you like when needed.

personally I reckon it'll get scraped fairly soon, all the hot rod clubs and racing clubs will be pushing to scrap it along with you guys in NSW, it'd be a pain to enforce.

The EPA in NSW had the exhaust sound laws and you required a test/sticker stating the DB and you couldn't have an exhaust sound anything above 89DB, even for out of state people they required a sticker as well, (this was a major problem for motorbikes but applied to everything) it got scraped after 18 months to 2 years after coming in.

the transport dept people complained and cops complained about it being too awkward to deal with as hardly anyone outside NSW knew about it and those that did couldn't get a sticker anyway as they didn't have a NSW rego and people in NSW got a sticker quick so cops were testing cars/bikes for a pointless reason.

Just going to be a bitch dealing with it while it's around I couldn't see cops unless they are after fine money really chasing people for this crap.

As an example do you get a fine if your 14.5cm or with in the limits of the ride height adjustment or do you get a warning? if you don't have the engineer ticket.

Another example would be, can you get the fine revoked if you can prove your suspension is sagging, what happens if you go wheeling and a shock has a rock stuck in it or it F's up and ends up fully extended and you have an engineer ticket but a cop pulls you to check the ride height again does the fine become revoked or stays in place?

It's completely F**ked as an enforceable law really.

[Hulksta]

My daewoo supension is that bad that when my kids are in the back it drops 4-6" will that make it illegal? cause it all stock

[shortyq]

do you guy realize this daley joker
was an in house lawer for the nrma

7k fine for breach of regs!

[Hulksta]

7k fine for breach of regs!

Wheres the info on this?

[80's_delirious]

7k fine for breach of regs!

Wheres the info on this?

PAFOOHA

Pulled A Figure Out Of His Arse

[shortyq]

and why would i do that!hey
read it on another forum
think it was a link to one of those
media releases

[shortyq]

and why would i do that!hey
read it on another forum
think it was a link to one of those
media releases

4wd action page 6 reguarding this topic
is where i read it.
the sad thing is it states that "after the 1/8/09"
every 1 thinks getting engoed b4 that will save them
it actually means after that date no mods will comply
every modded vehicle will be non compliant
and will only be engoed for 2in up or down
its the wording that will get every1 unstuck
unfortunately!

[HIANUFGQ]

In Victoria we have had a win with this issue, unless 4WDVIC the AAA and VACC all agree on a change to the law on modifying a 4WD it will not be passed. This is due to the great work of 4WDVIC who have had many meetings with the government party trying to pass these laws in. This is the reason I joined a 4WD club and pay my membership. 4WDVIC have now also gained access for clubs to use tracks that are always closed.

[hotrod4x4]

zagan i think you need to re-read the regs.
nearly all of what u have written above is incorrect.

Trim height variance is based on the standard vehicle and how much it changes..........nothing to do with how tall they are from original.
Variable airbag setups are illegal also if you READ the document.
Drop axles are also illegal in the new document (stub axles mentioned)

And stating that lowering a car gives better handling isnt always correct.
a car lowered a few inches maybe, another lowered 6inches def not, unless the whole suspension geometry has been changed to suit.

And....nowhere does it state you need 15cm clearance to the ground.
They still base it on 100mm.

As said, i think some people need to actually read before they post.

And as for the fine.....it can be up to $7700 for driving an uninsured vehicle....as thats what they say in the paper if driving an unapproved vehicle.

[outback_pootrol]

Oh yea, I can see them revoking it instantly.

well sorry for having a say,
when did i say that i would single handedly make this whole thing dissapear by me saying anything,
i am so so sick of wankers like you who are all big end high and mighty about their lives just because they have the dictionary in their favourites lkist, im not the smartest peanut in the turd but i am allowed to say what i want

[shortyq]

air suspension is compliant
the system must have a management system installed
and comply to regs with height, and no chassis mods
to accomadate purposes to lower for those reasons.

increasing tyre size does not increase trim height
altho it increase overall height which is the problem!

[Red Disco]

time to do what the bikies did, take all cars down and fully kill every piece of shit that call themselves politics wankers,

or just a riot or mob or something along them line, but yeah hate the polie f(french)uck faces they all need to die

Mate, We all understand your frustration but threats and violence comes from men who've run out of ideas. Do the right thing by the community and delete your threads if you have nothing constructive to say.

Thanks

george

[zagan]

zagan i think you need to re-read the regs.
nearly all of what u have written above is incorrect.

Trim height variance is based on the standard vehicle and how much it changes..........nothing to do with how tall they are from original.
Variable airbag setups are illegal also if you READ the document.
Drop axles are also illegal in the new document (stub axles mentioned)

And stating that lowering a car gives better handling isnt always correct.
a car lowered a few inches maybe, another lowered 6inches def not, unless the whole suspension geometry has been changed to suit.

And....nowhere does it state you need 15cm clearance to the ground.
They still base it on 100mm.

As said, i think some people need to actually read before they post.

And as for the fine.....it can be up to $7700 for driving an uninsured vehicle....as thats what they say in the paper if driving an unapproved vehicle.

Nar I havn't read it.

For any vehicale to be sold in Australia it needs to comply to ADRs and these details will be the stock settings etc as the car companies have to do a REVs type thing for the new car models otherwise they can't be sold in Australia.so they would be going off these for the stock numbers, that's where the numbers come from for tire placards etc.

a copper on the road isn't going to have the whole Aust ADR database on hand to check against so it's going to end up being a moot point and if you don't agree with the fine a copper might give you, the court will just side with the copper as they couldn't ever get anything wrong.

The airbags and drop axles were more examples from hot rods than 4wd's but you can have an airbag set up on a 4wd to go wheeling now if you really wanted.

alas if having an airbag set up is ilegal completely then those 4wd's that use airbags to keep the backend proped up would also be ilegal on the spot.

dropping the height does make it safer as your reducing the centre of gravity and reduce body roll which cause car roll overs etc, it won't be a nice to drive with it being harsh on bumps etc but you can't have everything.

Anyway doesn't really matter, with this law coming into place.