AGM battery questions

[murcod]

Ok, so recently I decided to "upgrade" and invest in an AGM battery for my other vehicle (non 4WD with a four cylinder 2 litre engine.)

The stock battery (normal wet cell original factory fit) is close to four years and was having problems cranking over if it was left sitting a week. So I purchased an AGM battery with a higher CCA than the original battery. The vehicle can sit for up to a week at a time so I wanted to be sure I wouldn't have problems. (The original battery would cope with up to 3 weeks of sitting when it was a lot newer.)

Now, here's where things get interesting. The new AGM battery is struggling to last 4 days - I can't work out why that would be the case? (Unless I've either got a dud battery or they've over stated the specs )

Even when fully charged the engine doesn't exactly crank over really fast like I would have thought it should- given the AGM battery is supposed to be able to supply a pulse current of 850 Amps, has a CCA of 450 and RC of 45 (original battery has "test 420", "47AH" on it).

I would take it back but bought it from interstate so will be up for freight and then they could turn around and say "nothing wrong with it"....

Does anyone know much about AGM's - have I got a dud; or don't they like sitting for more than a couple of days?

[drivesafe]

Hi murcod, what is the brand and part number of AGM?

[DamTriton]

Get your alternator checked.

Not charging either battery any where near enough.

I have left my car with a normal battery for 8 weeks (not the Kia) with no problems starting it, and most AGM's should easily do 3-6 months assuming there is no excess parasitic load on the battery (alarms, head units, etc).

AGM's can sit for a year or so off load and retain about 80% of their charge.

[murcod]

Hi murcod, what is the brand and part number of AGM?

It's an Xcell X850 http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/ ... cts_id=241 . God knows who it's made by and they seem to be the only place who sell them in Australia.

The only thing that might be a problem at my end is I am currently using a brass spacer under the positive terminal (issues with the clamp bolting onto the recessed terminal.) I have got some Odyssey style higher profile terminals on order- but I don't think that is the problem.

Damkia- it's a 2006 model vehicle (with an EFI engine, factory immobiliser, airbags, ESC, electronic head unit etc) and the vehicle is fitted with an alarm (with microwave motion detector etc). There's no way any battery will last as long as you've said.

Out of interest a friend has exactly the same vehicle (only without an alarm system) and has fitted a much smaller Odyssey PC680. http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680series.htm He has said he can easily leave his sitting for over two weeks and it will start no problems.

[drivesafe]

Hi again murcod, before you do anything, you might try giving the battery a good charge with a 240 vac battery charger and see if it improves it’s starting performance.

[murcod]

I have tried that using a three stage charger. It still only lasted approx 4 days again. The shortest trip I do is around 25 minutes driving.

Even when I give it a "quick" charge the night before (ie. leave it charging until it completes the "bulk charging" phase and disconnect it after it switches to float charging) it doesn't sound too healthy when cranking over the next morning.

I figure my best course of action be:
1. Fit the higher profile battery terminal and get rid of the brass spacer
2. Charge it fully again
3. If it still dies after a couple of days pay some local company to charge and test it (give written CCA rating etc). At least that way I've got some documented proof of what the battery characteristics are like before I send it off.

[DamTriton]

Stick an ammeter inline and measure what current is actually passing with everything off. It could be as simple as a stuck relay somewhere drawing a couple of hundred miliamps continuously.

You are trying to treat the symptoms without looking for the cause.

[murcod]

If I'd had this problem before I installed the new battery I'd agree the problem could lie elsewhere.

You see the thing is the "syptoms" only started when this new battery was installed. The four year old factory original battery (which I know is on it's way out) has more grunt than this new higher rated battery....

But, I will measure the current when I replace the terminal (just to be 100% certain.)

[drivesafe]

Following on from DAMKIA’s suggestion.

You could try fully charging the battery with the negative terminal disconnected from the battery and leave it that way until you need to start your 4x4 again.

If it starts OK then the problem is probably elsewhere and that is a fairly small battery so even an insignificant drain could flatten your battery pretty quickly.

If on the other hand, when reconnect the negative terminal when you go to start, if it is hard to start, then I’d say it’s a dud battery.

[murcod]

Ok, I went out earlier and measured the drain with the alarm on- it's approx 35-45mA (varying with the LED flashing.) So nothing abnormal there.

Hopefully the new terminals will turn up tomorrow and I'll let it charge disconnected tomorrow night.

[Box Feroza]

Hello.

I have had issues like this in the past. You should get the battery load tested. It sounds like thats where the issue is. Just because the battery is new it does not mean that it is a 100%.
You have already done a current draw test so unless you have an interior light staying on somewhere it shoulden't be going dead in 4 days.

Good luck.

[murcod]

Yes, load testing will be the next step. I just need to replace the terminal first to rule out the brass spacer.

I'm almost certain it's the battery, but need to be 100% certain before I pay to freight it to the dealer.

[murcod]

The terminals arrived today. I did the "right thing" and bought them from the place I purchased the battery from..... only to find what turned up won't even fit the battery.... Then to top that off, the supplied terminals are also NOT even the high profile type that I requested (I even Emailed them a link showing exaclty what I required ).

It would appear the battery is incorrectly advertsied on their site as having "M6 Bolt with brass auto terminal" the actual bolt thread would be more like M5 or M4.5.

So, a "to the point" Email has just been sent detailing the problems with the terminals AND the poor performance of the battery itself.

I also discovered the bolts securing the terminals are too long and bottom out in the battery. So a mismatch of various sized spring washers and flat washers have been used to secure the terminals. Three mismatched spring washers on the negative terminal..... two plus a flat washer on the positive. Plus the actual terminals have M6 holes and the undersize M5 (or 4.5?) bolts through them....

Needless to say I can't really recommend their product.

[murcod]

I charged it last night (overnight for approx 14hrs), it switched to float charging at around 10pm last night.

I turned the charger off this morning and immediately reconnected the battery and started the engine. It was still what I would describe as only "slowly" cranking the engine over, certainly not what I'd expect from a brand new battery.

I'll now wait and see what the response is to my Email.

[murcod]

I rang them earlier (they requested I call them to discuss it further.)

Turns out there are a few different versions of the X850 and mine happens to be the version with M5 bolt holes. The MD of the company was surprised at how bad it was performing - said they have fitted them to V6 engines etc. Then suggested they could possibly replace it with the smaller Stinger AGM - no thankyou!

So I'm up for around $20 to freight it back to them. I think I'll still call in at a battery shop and see if someone can do a quick test on it before sending it off.

[murcod]

Had it tested this afternoon - 242CCA .

Explains why it never sounded too flash cranking the engine. That was tested after charging fully two days ago and since charging it's been sitting disconnected. My brass spacer was also removed. Voltage level was 13.1V.

[murcod]

Received the replacement today- it's a totally different battery . (But supposedly the same item.)

It has got a label on the top "SSB Dryfit Super Start HVT-2 515CCA 30AH". Some googling would indicate it comes from Super Start Batteries- but I can't find that model listed anywhere?

It is a tiny bit larger than the previous battery (probably more in line with the published specs on their website- the previous battery was undersize.)

After some more dramas fitting it (terminals again) I'm pleased to say it cranks over VERY fast now.

BUT- I would strongly suggest NOT buying off the clowns I dealt with. There have been a lot of Emails and phone calls going back and forward. They DO NOT listen to the customer and have totally stuffed me around, supplied incorrect battery terminals etc etc. The idiots even fitted the terminals I said were unsuitable to the new battery after I had returned them and said there was no way they would work!!! I was also charged $20 for them which I requested be refunded. By fitting them to the new battery they have effectively not supplied me with the stock terminals (which would have worked with the brass spacer I was previously using) and ripped me off! I spent over an hour stuffing around custom modifying the terminals to get it to fit AGAIN.

They have also started ignoring my Emails... there has been no response to my request last Friday for an update (they had received the old battery via registered mail on Thursday.)

I also came across some interesting errors on their website. Compare the battery specs (CCA rating) here on their site for a Fullriver Stinger SPV20 battery http://allpurposebatteries.com.au/shop/ ... cts_id=328 (400 CCA) with the same battery specs from the actual manufacturers website http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin ... /SPV20.pdf (only 220 CCA)

There are also "anomalies" with some of their other batteries.

[murcod]

Just tried starting the car after leaving it sitting for 13 days - it cranked over quickly and started no problems.