Swaffie, its certainly true in what you are saying. But its funny you should bring up the farmtruck because it presents a very interesting angle to the discussion. Over the years that low budget 45 series of Daves has appeared in more ARB 4x4 Action Newsletters and 4WD magazines then any of the high budget high performance things I have ever built. (Dave regularily reminds me of this). In fact grab the latest edition of the US 4wd Toyota Owners Magazine, the bloody old thing is on the front cover!
Your right it sounds good, its different and realistically its chances of ever winning an event are slim, but it always presents well and more importantly its low budget. The whole thing is worth half of what the winch is worth, yet it gets the exposure. From a sponsors point of view this makes the difference. Swaffie, to answer your question, my heart says I would give the sponsorship to the supercharged noise maker, but the head would give it to the farmtruck. Its just a money equation, please don't take it personally.
I don't think this whole arguement is a direct attack on anyone person or car/s, I think Dave has just opened up a discussion for everyone to consider how we can keep this sport alive and growing. Just about every example you bring up as a comparison is still a regulated/handicapped level playing field motorsport event. (Finke, Drag racing etc). 4wd Class 7 and Class 8 do not allow anywhere near the freedom that we allow in winch challenge event vehicles.
Phil
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2010 & Beyond Update of XWC, EFS XI & EFS TEAMS
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i for one and i know madica even more so are very particular about presentation, i always try to attend comps with a shine on my truck, all the alloy polished, that little bit of wow factor, from townsville to rocky with 2 wicked looking comp trucks on a truck and trailer covered in chrome, every time i stopped i was stuck there for 20mins with people, telling them all about it,
everyone can hear the crown when gregs motor goes to full noise and to a lesser extent when i purged the gas and all that stuff is getting knocked on the head, i dont think there is one competitor out there who got into this sport cause its nice and cheap, and if there is they are in for a rude shock,
at the last comp i was told i couldnt run gas but it was ok to run a twin turbo small block, so thats what i started planning, thank christ i hadnt paid for anything yet cause its what? 2 months later and we have another change, i dont believe there is any consistancy or a very well thought out reason behind alot of these rules, they seem to chop and change alot too,
i went to finke to watch this year and was blown away by the organisation, rules, cars, consistency, publicity and ovrall management of the event, and havent looked back since, to have 4 helicopters and a few thousand people at the finishline was breathtaking, and the place is far more remote than rocky or kilcoy.
everyone can hear the crown when gregs motor goes to full noise and to a lesser extent when i purged the gas and all that stuff is getting knocked on the head, i dont think there is one competitor out there who got into this sport cause its nice and cheap, and if there is they are in for a rude shock,
at the last comp i was told i couldnt run gas but it was ok to run a twin turbo small block, so thats what i started planning, thank christ i hadnt paid for anything yet cause its what? 2 months later and we have another change, i dont believe there is any consistancy or a very well thought out reason behind alot of these rules, they seem to chop and change alot too,
i went to finke to watch this year and was blown away by the organisation, rules, cars, consistency, publicity and ovrall management of the event, and havent looked back since, to have 4 helicopters and a few thousand people at the finishline was breathtaking, and the place is far more remote than rocky or kilcoy.
Last edited by tufenuf on Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think you missed my point a bit there phill i was just using the sound of a supercharger v8 as a eg: because its different, what i was getting at is that the farm truck is unique because of what it is and if everyone had the same thing then it would be just plain boring.And its hard To say that class 7 and class 8 is not cheque book racing as it has far more costing than doing 3 rounds of XWC in a year.
2011 xwc
Well I do have to make a comment to "Ratbagpatrol".
If you are who I think you are, it appeared I was your best mate a couple of days ago when you called me regards the EFS XI. I also know that your vehicle at the moment is not affected by the 2011 pending rules.
Those competitors whos vehicle may not comply have at least had the decency & guts to call me direct and talk it through and not given me a verbal bashing over the Internet.
Also if you bothered to read the possible changes for 2011 my vehicle and all the others competing now do comply to the chassis rule.
I took these same type of comments many years ago when I brought in cages, helmets & window nets, numbers went down for a couple of Rounds. Guess what all the other major events have followed suit regarding these safety items introduced by me many years ago. So maybe they will follow my changes in the future for the betterment of the sport.
As you are going back to Offroad Racing (forced induction not allowed there as well) I will not have to break my gear recoving you of SS anymore.
Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport
If you are who I think you are, it appeared I was your best mate a couple of days ago when you called me regards the EFS XI. I also know that your vehicle at the moment is not affected by the 2011 pending rules.
Those competitors whos vehicle may not comply have at least had the decency & guts to call me direct and talk it through and not given me a verbal bashing over the Internet.
Also if you bothered to read the possible changes for 2011 my vehicle and all the others competing now do comply to the chassis rule.
I took these same type of comments many years ago when I brought in cages, helmets & window nets, numbers went down for a couple of Rounds. Guess what all the other major events have followed suit regarding these safety items introduced by me many years ago. So maybe they will follow my changes in the future for the betterment of the sport.
As you are going back to Offroad Racing (forced induction not allowed there as well) I will not have to break my gear recoving you of SS anymore.
Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
This is where I am concerned Phil.PSwindale wrote: Instead of spending $20,000 on an engine and $10,000 on a winch, perhaps a big chunk of that should be spent on truck maintenance and presentation and promotion with the public (ask the Off Road Racing Boys about this one). The more we did this then perhaps the more sponsorship and public following we might achieve.
Phil
I think people will be topping more and more money into NA motors than was ever imaginable. $$$ will always show somewhere. Someone is always going to have more of it than the next bloke...
But you can't buy winching smarts and teamwork...
You can't buy mechanical apt and driving technique....
Jas I think you're slightly missing the big picture... sure it will effect you and a few others right now with your car set up.... but moreso it will effect the image of the sport...
Sure the production class boys got a cheer at Rocky XWC but if that was the whole event??? Do you honestly think that is spectator friendly?
Sure it makes for buget racing and a close points board but... This isn't the sort of thing that sells shocks, winches and bigger picture ---> ENERGY DRINKS, TYRES, CLOTHING.... many many many fringe sports gets massive money injection because people want to aline their brand with these fringe looneys........
Everyone from outside the 4b arena looks at the XWC dvd's and goes WOW! You guys are nuts.... By the way... no DVD anymore... No coverage...
Why can't these events get air on ONE HD? Minority sport... I would have thought that XWC could have trumpt some of the sport on their for action/excitement.
Have event organisers beening ringing up? Have they been working hard to promote their and competitors best interest?
This is again what the Yanks do SO SO well. They sell their products...
XWC is a great event and I want to see it prosper!
Making it so that the excitement of the crazys are dulled is not fun...
Tufenuf... you are on track with my thoughts buddy... that is the future... and you'll laugh but it won't matter if you come 1st or 10th... your giving the crowds a name, product and memory... and you'll sell more and make more than the bloke in 1st!..... 1st helps but...
Also a bit of controversy never hurt anyone either... look at Brian Deegan!
My brain hurts now so I better go collect my thoughts...
Off on my Valintino Rossii inspired R1, wearing my DC Shirt (that'd be Pastrana's brand of choice) to have a Red Bull, (who isn't sponsered by Red Bull .... )
I really really hope that Dave has a really good read of these opinions and makes an informed decision... ask the spectators which trucks they like... ask a few fringe companys what they'd sponser if they could...
Either way you are 100% right it is your event and you need to run it your way. And no offence to the old guys of the sport... he needs to focus on new opinions as well as the originals... both are important in making this grow... if you've got 5 new competitors cars getting built right now and they are all charged gens and aftermarket 6s you need to think that maybe that IS the future...
I have a dream.....................................................
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This is exactly what i'm talking about... in the next couple of years it's going to be this Lifestyle element that will either make it go crazy like motorcross in the 70s/80s or it will become stagnet and the mighty $$$ will dry up...tufenuf wrote:i for one and i know madica even more so are very particular about presentation, i always try to attend comps with a shine on my truck, all the alloy polished, that little bit of wow factor, from townsville to rocky with 2 wicked looking comp trucks on a truck and trailer covered in chrome, every time i stopped i was stuck there for 20mins with people, telling them all about it,
everyone can hear the crown when gregs motor goes to full noise and to a lesser extent when i purged the gas and all that stuff is getting knocked on the head
People want the Rockstar/Sportsstar dream... even the blokes that can't have it want to dream a little... That dream is to have the supercharged gen... not the 2 inch lifted carb fed GQ.... ALREADY GOT THAT!
Remember you say it's a small sport... in the 70s motorcross was small and supercross was unknown...
Someone put up their hand and take this sport by the horns... MADICA is already doing it I think... Has Jacko aproached Red Bull???
Recon with a clever advisor he'd be a shoe in for some cash... surely!
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i do not agree with ratbagpatrol, nor can i make much sence of what he said, but as i keep saying last time i tried to talk to you about a rule and ask why you figured it was un safe the only answe i got off you was "cause i said so" and "if you dont like my rules theres the gate" unfortunatly not a lot of people saw that, now i dont care what the rule is or what the arguement is, if you give answers like that your not going to get respect and people will leave,Those competitors whos vehicle may not comply have at least had the decency & guts to call me direct and talk it through and not given me a verbal bashing over the Internet.
as i said it was only a few weeks ago you were telling me i could build whatever motor i wanted as long as it didnt have NOS
No I see what your saying Swaffie, you are right about the noise and sex appeal thing , I was more just speaking from a sponsors point of view. As per my first post, Class 7 and 8 are indeed cheque book racing, thats why there are more winch challenge vehicles competing around Oz then Class 7 and 8 trucks in ORC. Even the Australian Safari struggles to get the 4x4 numbers of Cliffhanger. I would just hate to see the sport die a slow death because the public got sick of turning up to an event and see only 7 or 8 supercharged cars competing time after time.
Yes tufenuf you guys up there do present some fantastic trucks and you should be commended for that. But its interesting you say that the trucks attract heaps of public attention, even without starting them. Perhaps that means we have spent too much on the internals and not enough on what grabs the public eye.
Please remember this is only a handicapp system, not a ban that Dave is proposing.
But from a sponsors point of view, and thats all I am trying to offer, the truck that wins the most, will not always be the one that gets the most backing or exposure. Its the whole package, even if that is Gregs noisy beast. He does not have to win to attract attention, so please don't fear a handicapp event and don't be shy to compete because you have not got the big bucks. I would much prefer to sponsor an event with 30-40 battlers then 6-8 monster trucks. A different winner every event is much better than the same one everytime.
Once again guys, just my opinion.
Phil
Yes tufenuf you guys up there do present some fantastic trucks and you should be commended for that. But its interesting you say that the trucks attract heaps of public attention, even without starting them. Perhaps that means we have spent too much on the internals and not enough on what grabs the public eye.
Please remember this is only a handicapp system, not a ban that Dave is proposing.
But from a sponsors point of view, and thats all I am trying to offer, the truck that wins the most, will not always be the one that gets the most backing or exposure. Its the whole package, even if that is Gregs noisy beast. He does not have to win to attract attention, so please don't fear a handicapp event and don't be shy to compete because you have not got the big bucks. I would much prefer to sponsor an event with 30-40 battlers then 6-8 monster trucks. A different winner every event is much better than the same one everytime.
Once again guys, just my opinion.
Phil
Just Get Out and Do it!
its funny you say that casue mine has a dead stock vn 5 litre, and every single person said(HOLY SHIT YOU GOT NOS ON THAT THING), they love stuff like that,Yes tufenuf you guys up there do present some fantastic trucks and you should be commended for that. But its interesting you say that the trucks attract heaps of public attention, even without starting them. Perhaps that means we have spent too much on the internals and not enough on what grabs the public eye.
i also do not believe class 8 is cheque book racing or anywhere even close, what i saw at finke was nothing compared to rocky this year, the trucks do not have near the dollars spent on them(in most cases) also the only real restriction is engine, chassis is free so is suspension and gearbox and diffs to i believe
In regards to the question of TV sponsorship, and I am willing to stand corrected here as I might not have all the facts, an approach was made to one of the major stations in VIC several years ago to try and get our events onto main stream TV. While they were certainly in awe of what we do, the general presentation of the trucks from round to round was one of the major stumbling blocks. It did not seem to matter how much hp we had, we just had "an ugly face for TV".
Sort of reinforces what we all seem to agree on, but struggle to allow the $$'s for. It just becomes another cost factor to consider when entering the sport. And I am just as guilty as the next person too.
Phil
Sort of reinforces what we all seem to agree on, but struggle to allow the $$'s for. It just becomes another cost factor to consider when entering the sport. And I am just as guilty as the next person too.
Phil
Just Get Out and Do it!
Arggg why can't I just leave.... he he
Class 8... Not cheque book??????????
We talking about the same cars?
Hunter racing..... stock grand jeep?????????
Sandy Bowman... won Finke class 8... stock GQ?
I'm all for excitement about the class but racings racing and there are always crazy dollars rapped up in it...........
Supercharging a gen is going to be the cheapest thing racing if MMM does go this way...
My bet is Powertorque will have a WHOLE lotta 25G 6L Gen4s getting built! And they will all have 600HP.... don't get confused about this issue... people will find ways around the rules and WILL SPEND MASSIVE CASH... so don't make rules that kill the excitement!
Sorry guys but Class 8 is a money PIT!
well I should redefine that... class 8 is a money pit if you want it to be.... XWC is a money pit if you want it to be...
Like another thread said Sandy Bowman has more dollars in his GQ than I do in my HOUSE!
The arguement is really do superchargers and turbos honestly make a safety issue... if yes well then how can we fix this.......
If superchargers and turbos are getting ruled out because they win regularly and someone doesn't like getting beaten.... Well then they should stay! because they create the excitement and hype required to make this sport the exciting fringe Australian institution that it is!
600hp gen with supercharger... or 600HP NA 6L... both are easily achievable and the supercharger is much cheaper. Don't let games get in the way of reality...
He claims that he was the first to introduce cages, nets and harnesses... Big thumbs up as you made the sport better and faster and more exciting... but these were changes that HAD TO HAPPEN! Don't kill XWC just in the name of a first!
This is MMM's Business, although run a little different to most...
His business is to run the best 4wd event he can, creating the most excitement, thus the most teams (sponser dollars are tied to this which is the competitors payday), and thus massive crowds (this is where HIS payday is)
Surely it's in his best interest and ours as spectators to atleast listen to all his competitors to create an exciting future...
Class 8... Not cheque book??????????
We talking about the same cars?
Hunter racing..... stock grand jeep?????????
Sandy Bowman... won Finke class 8... stock GQ?
I'm all for excitement about the class but racings racing and there are always crazy dollars rapped up in it...........
Supercharging a gen is going to be the cheapest thing racing if MMM does go this way...
My bet is Powertorque will have a WHOLE lotta 25G 6L Gen4s getting built! And they will all have 600HP.... don't get confused about this issue... people will find ways around the rules and WILL SPEND MASSIVE CASH... so don't make rules that kill the excitement!
Sorry guys but Class 8 is a money PIT!
well I should redefine that... class 8 is a money pit if you want it to be.... XWC is a money pit if you want it to be...
Like another thread said Sandy Bowman has more dollars in his GQ than I do in my HOUSE!
The arguement is really do superchargers and turbos honestly make a safety issue... if yes well then how can we fix this.......
If superchargers and turbos are getting ruled out because they win regularly and someone doesn't like getting beaten.... Well then they should stay! because they create the excitement and hype required to make this sport the exciting fringe Australian institution that it is!
600hp gen with supercharger... or 600HP NA 6L... both are easily achievable and the supercharger is much cheaper. Don't let games get in the way of reality...
He claims that he was the first to introduce cages, nets and harnesses... Big thumbs up as you made the sport better and faster and more exciting... but these were changes that HAD TO HAPPEN! Don't kill XWC just in the name of a first!
This is MMM's Business, although run a little different to most...
His business is to run the best 4wd event he can, creating the most excitement, thus the most teams (sponser dollars are tied to this which is the competitors payday), and thus massive crowds (this is where HIS payday is)
Surely it's in his best interest and ours as spectators to atleast listen to all his competitors to create an exciting future...
Last edited by digsy on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Its funny you say that about the blown ls1 as i am building one right now and was about to buy swaffies supercharger. At first when i read the rule changes i thought there goes the idea of the supercharger but after having a think about it there is going to be new comps starting around here that don't have rules like this so i think ill be going ahead with the charger and race in the other comps.digsy wrote:This is where I am concerned Phil.PSwindale wrote: Instead of spending $20,000 on an engine and $10,000 on a winch, perhaps a big chunk of that should be spent on truck maintenance and presentation and promotion with the public (ask the Off Road Racing Boys about this one). The more we did this then perhaps the more sponsorship and public following we might achieve.
Phil
I think people will be topping more and more money into NA motors than was ever imaginable. $$$ will always show somewhere. Someone is always going to have more of it than the next bloke...
But you can't buy winching smarts and teamwork...
You can't buy mechanical apt and driving technique....
Jas I think you're slightly missing the big picture... sure it will effect you and a few others right now with your car set up.... but moreso it will effect the image of the sport...
Sure the production class boys got a cheer at Rocky XWC but if that was the whole event??? Do you honestly think that is spectator friendly?
Sure it makes for buget racing and a close points board but... This isn't the sort of thing that sells shocks, winches and bigger picture ---> ENERGY DRINKS, TYRES, CLOTHING.... many many many fringe sports gets massive money injection because people want to aline their brand with these fringe looneys........
Everyone from outside the 4b arena looks at the XWC dvd's and goes WOW! You guys are nuts.... By the way... no DVD anymore... No coverage...
Why can't these events get air on ONE HD? Minority sport... I would have thought that XWC could have trumpt some of the sport on their for action/excitement.
Have event organisers beening ringing up? Have they been working hard to promote their and competitors best interest?
This is again what the Yanks do SO SO well. They sell their products...
XWC is a great event and I want to see it prosper!
Making it so that the excitement of the crazys are dulled is not fun...
Tufenuf... you are on track with my thoughts buddy... that is the future... and you'll laugh but it won't matter if you come 1st or 10th... your giving the crowds a name, product and memory... and you'll sell more and make more than the bloke in 1st!..... 1st helps but...
Also a bit of controversy never hurt anyone either... look at Brian Deegan!
My brain hurts now so I better go collect my thoughts...
Off on my Valintino Rossii inspired R1, wearing my DC Shirt (that'd be Pastrana's brand of choice) to have a Red Bull, (who isn't sponsered by Red Bull .... )
I really really hope that Dave has a really good read of these opinions and makes an informed decision... ask the spectators which trucks they like... ask a few fringe companys what they'd sponser if they could...
Either way you are 100% right it is your event and you need to run it your way. And no offence to the old guys of the sport... he needs to focus on new opinions as well as the originals... both are important in making this grow... if you've got 5 new competitors cars getting built right now and they are all charged gens and aftermarket 6s you need to think that maybe that IS the future...
I have a dream.....................................................
www.teamecr.com.au
sorry mate but you must have a pretty small house ha ha ha only kidding, but sandys dint look to spectacular at finke, it has coilovers and tripple bi's in each corner, but was still nissan motor, pretty rough cab, i have no doupt its not a cheap truck, but there were some very very cheap trucks out there,Like another thread said Sandy Bowman has more dollars in his GQ than I do in my HOUSE!
colin hunters yes bulk$$$$$$$$$
Dave am I right in assuming that a non stock motor will NOT be allowed to run with supercharging or turbo at all after 2010
your rule
1:- Turbo's and Superchargers can only be fitted to the original engine (if under 4350cc) of that model of vehicle used.
so that means if you have a supercharged V8 you cannot run regardless of penalties?
Paul
your rule
1:- Turbo's and Superchargers can only be fitted to the original engine (if under 4350cc) of that model of vehicle used.
so that means if you have a supercharged V8 you cannot run regardless of penalties?
Paul
91 FJ 80 Project on the go - air lockers, 3in lift, super duper 3F, 36" pedes, toyota V8 getting prepped now
Pauwolf wrote:Dave am I right in assuming that a non stock motor will NOT be allowed to run with supercharging or turbo at all after 2010
your rule
1:- Turbo's and Superchargers can only be fitted to the original engine (if under 4350cc) of that model of vehicle used.
so that means if you have a supercharged V8 you cannot run regardless of penalties?
Paul
Hi Paul, after a lot of phone calls over the last 2 days a final decision regards change in rules for 2011 will be released Friday morning 7th August.
At no time have I said that they could not compete but they will have a handicap given to them.
I can guarantee that you will still be able to compete in the XWC with a forced induction petrol motor up to 6100cc after 2011.
I expect 18 months notice will be given to any major changes that are going to happen in the future.
Until then.
Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Holy shit !
Some of this post has gone to the shit .
After reading some of the comments i wonder if the guys are even old enough to hold a licence yet.
We all must remember this is a public forum and the world as well as future sponsors read all that is said.
At the moment some of these posts make the winch challenge competitors ( only some) look like spoilt kids that dont get their way.
Any way i think if we all want this sport to grow we should all work together and talk with respect to each other to find solutions with ruling and regulations.
Superior Engineering is considering dropping 8 sponsored trucks this year because their is no real point in sponsoring vehicles as we do not get much back for the money it costs, their is no real tv coverage and the crowds are small.
Most of the guys think it is their given right to get 10k thown at their truck if they show up for a couple of races , doesn't work that way its a 2 way street.
For those guys who have sponsors maybe you should also think about what you give back to your sponsor as they keep these sports going as well as your trucks running.
I think red bull , V , coca cola or any big name business would laugh at sponsoring these event until they are run more professional and on a much larger scale with heaps more publicity no matter how loud or fast the trucks are.
I agree with most of what has been said in this post but i think some of the guys should have a bit more respect to fellow 4wders and keep their posts to constructive one.
Round 1 tough tracks in QLD we had some new rule changes, a few guys got pissed and argued about it, some guys left some guys stayed, new guys come in to fill the spots of the guys who left.
It was all for the good of the sport and now it has grown even more and it have become a more professionally run event.
With the changes new sponsors also came.
Change isn't alway bad.
Some of this post has gone to the shit .
After reading some of the comments i wonder if the guys are even old enough to hold a licence yet.
We all must remember this is a public forum and the world as well as future sponsors read all that is said.
At the moment some of these posts make the winch challenge competitors ( only some) look like spoilt kids that dont get their way.
Any way i think if we all want this sport to grow we should all work together and talk with respect to each other to find solutions with ruling and regulations.
Superior Engineering is considering dropping 8 sponsored trucks this year because their is no real point in sponsoring vehicles as we do not get much back for the money it costs, their is no real tv coverage and the crowds are small.
Most of the guys think it is their given right to get 10k thown at their truck if they show up for a couple of races , doesn't work that way its a 2 way street.
For those guys who have sponsors maybe you should also think about what you give back to your sponsor as they keep these sports going as well as your trucks running.
I think red bull , V , coca cola or any big name business would laugh at sponsoring these event until they are run more professional and on a much larger scale with heaps more publicity no matter how loud or fast the trucks are.
I agree with most of what has been said in this post but i think some of the guys should have a bit more respect to fellow 4wders and keep their posts to constructive one.
Round 1 tough tracks in QLD we had some new rule changes, a few guys got pissed and argued about it, some guys left some guys stayed, new guys come in to fill the spots of the guys who left.
It was all for the good of the sport and now it has grown even more and it have become a more professionally run event.
With the changes new sponsors also came.
Change isn't alway bad.
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JOOMBIE RACING
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MAYBELINE RACING
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Hey Superior I do understand what you are saying but
forgive me if I'm wrong but isnt the car that you run a turbo petrol with NOS? Do you really use that much power or is it an attention grabbing vehicle that you use to display the very latest offroad wares that you produce?
I agree that every tom dick and harry should not get sponser coin! but the true inspirational guys that keep all the rest of us building our recreational cars should be allowed to play. I bought a toy pretty much because of the XWC vehicles of past
I'm all for change in the name of safety and development of the sport but I think nocking a supercharger on the head is not really the best way of going about it...
And I agree with what you say currently about Red Bull and the like... BUT WHY? Why can't we market ourselves and create this atmosphere about Winch Challanges that the likes of Red Bull extreme MNT Bik'n and stuff... you want fringe... I reckon a handful of people in the world can do that... They seem to market their events very well and push the boundrys of technology which creates excitement for the sport.
I think if the PR was done correctly and the team that produced it was up for it a once a week hour show on ONE HD for Winch Challange comps only on a tuesday night or the like would get ratings...
And why wouldn't Red Bull want to get a slice of that market... or red bulls competition... I think in QLD the ratio of cars to 4wd might be something like 10:1 or so (please if someone has real facts post it up) and in Yeppoon EVERY second young bloke is now driving a 4wd Patrol/Cruiser/Jeep because of the new P Plate laws...
Surely they are a market that Unit Clothing/V drinks/BFG tyres wants to target... and target they could with adverts and sponsership on cars...
More young people have 4wd's currently in Rocky that motorcross bikes... and yet again you look at any moto event and they have big names/big sponsers/good coverage
Even OBC and Cliffhanger don't get TV time up this way...
XWC could make a move right now and lock in their place in offroad history... Lock in a deal with a program, advertise and push push push... but unfortunately this takes time and effort -> and with Dave's work this is what he has over the rest of us with day jobs, he is in the perfect position to capitalise on an already proven formula...
Anyway... I guess the guys that get it will get it and the guys that don't think I'm talking crap anyway...
The only reason I am passionate about it is because I think it will allow for bigger and better comps in the future and we don't want to stifle it now... Safety - definately, New and innovative - sure, Change for sake of change - No way...
I'd almost bet cash money that someone is in Dave's ear complaining because back in the day they were competitive and now with the new Cream of the Crop vehicles that people have built, they aren't so competitive and are slowly getting pushed out of the sport...
I don't want to see ANYONE get pushed out but innovation is innovation and people will find ways to go CRAZY FAST with or without a supercharger and the penalties...
forgive me if I'm wrong but isnt the car that you run a turbo petrol with NOS? Do you really use that much power or is it an attention grabbing vehicle that you use to display the very latest offroad wares that you produce?
I agree that every tom dick and harry should not get sponser coin! but the true inspirational guys that keep all the rest of us building our recreational cars should be allowed to play. I bought a toy pretty much because of the XWC vehicles of past
I'm all for change in the name of safety and development of the sport but I think nocking a supercharger on the head is not really the best way of going about it...
And I agree with what you say currently about Red Bull and the like... BUT WHY? Why can't we market ourselves and create this atmosphere about Winch Challanges that the likes of Red Bull extreme MNT Bik'n and stuff... you want fringe... I reckon a handful of people in the world can do that... They seem to market their events very well and push the boundrys of technology which creates excitement for the sport.
I think if the PR was done correctly and the team that produced it was up for it a once a week hour show on ONE HD for Winch Challange comps only on a tuesday night or the like would get ratings...
And why wouldn't Red Bull want to get a slice of that market... or red bulls competition... I think in QLD the ratio of cars to 4wd might be something like 10:1 or so (please if someone has real facts post it up) and in Yeppoon EVERY second young bloke is now driving a 4wd Patrol/Cruiser/Jeep because of the new P Plate laws...
Surely they are a market that Unit Clothing/V drinks/BFG tyres wants to target... and target they could with adverts and sponsership on cars...
More young people have 4wd's currently in Rocky that motorcross bikes... and yet again you look at any moto event and they have big names/big sponsers/good coverage
Even OBC and Cliffhanger don't get TV time up this way...
XWC could make a move right now and lock in their place in offroad history... Lock in a deal with a program, advertise and push push push... but unfortunately this takes time and effort -> and with Dave's work this is what he has over the rest of us with day jobs, he is in the perfect position to capitalise on an already proven formula...
Anyway... I guess the guys that get it will get it and the guys that don't think I'm talking crap anyway...
The only reason I am passionate about it is because I think it will allow for bigger and better comps in the future and we don't want to stifle it now... Safety - definately, New and innovative - sure, Change for sake of change - No way...
I'd almost bet cash money that someone is in Dave's ear complaining because back in the day they were competitive and now with the new Cream of the Crop vehicles that people have built, they aren't so competitive and are slowly getting pushed out of the sport...
I don't want to see ANYONE get pushed out but innovation is innovation and people will find ways to go CRAZY FAST with or without a supercharger and the penalties...
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And the other thing Superior...
You need to be careful what is percieved and what is real...
I built a GQ patrol using almost all Superior Parts based soley on your proven reputation at events like Tough Tracks and what not...
I know that you say you don't get anything back but the pure number of vehicles that you have competing and being competitive and not breaking too often does translate directly into sales for you... in Rockhampton your product is very very popular because of your good marketing/sponsership by current standards...
People know your product and name because of the vehicles that you have and there is probably alot of really good little fab shops turning out a high quality product that haven't done that and that directly translates into NO SALES...
The problem is that I don't think the current standards are big enough to catch the big fish.............
Why not the Monster Energy/Superior Team?
We have Rockstar sponsering Offroad Racing.... why not Challanges... Don't tell me it's because Offroad Racing is more interesting to the average joe... It's because people like the Taylor family have a clear vision and are now reaping the rewards...
Why not dream a little..... best yet why not push and get what you want...
maybe it's not realistic........... but other sports sure have it.......
You need to be careful what is percieved and what is real...
I built a GQ patrol using almost all Superior Parts based soley on your proven reputation at events like Tough Tracks and what not...
I know that you say you don't get anything back but the pure number of vehicles that you have competing and being competitive and not breaking too often does translate directly into sales for you... in Rockhampton your product is very very popular because of your good marketing/sponsership by current standards...
People know your product and name because of the vehicles that you have and there is probably alot of really good little fab shops turning out a high quality product that haven't done that and that directly translates into NO SALES...
The problem is that I don't think the current standards are big enough to catch the big fish.............
Why not the Monster Energy/Superior Team?
We have Rockstar sponsering Offroad Racing.... why not Challanges... Don't tell me it's because Offroad Racing is more interesting to the average joe... It's because people like the Taylor family have a clear vision and are now reaping the rewards...
Why not dream a little..... best yet why not push and get what you want...
maybe it's not realistic........... but other sports sure have it.......
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he he... I love the way you drop it...tufenuf wrote:sorry mate but you must have a pretty small house ha ha ha only kidding, but sandys dint look to spectacular at finke, it has coilovers and tripple bi's in each corner, but was still nissan motor, pretty rough cab, i have no doupt its not a cheap truck, but there were some very very cheap trucks out there,Like another thread said Sandy Bowman has more dollars in his GQ than I do in my HOUSE!
Sandy's didn't look too flash... just triple bi's and coilovers
There's some really cheap trucks out there........ but where did they place.... I was too busy looking at the photos of the
smoking hot trucks like Sandy's and Hunters...Offroad Cartel Clothing Co.
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(Yes i will probably get flamed for this as i am not a competitor and have only watched a few 'live' XWC's, but watched heaps on DVD)
my 2c worth though...
like any motor sport it is evolving with time, as there is always people with more money, sponsors, etc, etc then others. So like it or not there will have to be more rules set at some stage to 'level' the playing field - as in every other professional motor sport. There has to be categories for different competitiors. But this boils down to the size of the sport and the competitor size to make sure there is enough competitors (and spectators, sponsors) in each category, I would presume this is what dave is trying to achieve, with foresight for future competition. However maybe specifying more categories would maybe be an idea - e.g. 'outlaw' class' where you can have your big blown donks, heightened saftey protocol, etc, etc, and giving 24 months notice so that people have time to build/modify for this, and people whom don't want/etc to change from certain current situations don't have to worry about either changing their current situation too much, or they can step up to outlaw or down to production?
it all boils down to competitors, spectators, sport following. without this no business will survive and evolve and we have to remember that is what dave is running - a business, on the other hand a business is no good without customers (competitors, spectators)!!
my 2C anyways................
my 2c worth though...
like any motor sport it is evolving with time, as there is always people with more money, sponsors, etc, etc then others. So like it or not there will have to be more rules set at some stage to 'level' the playing field - as in every other professional motor sport. There has to be categories for different competitiors. But this boils down to the size of the sport and the competitor size to make sure there is enough competitors (and spectators, sponsors) in each category, I would presume this is what dave is trying to achieve, with foresight for future competition. However maybe specifying more categories would maybe be an idea - e.g. 'outlaw' class' where you can have your big blown donks, heightened saftey protocol, etc, etc, and giving 24 months notice so that people have time to build/modify for this, and people whom don't want/etc to change from certain current situations don't have to worry about either changing their current situation too much, or they can step up to outlaw or down to production?
it all boils down to competitors, spectators, sport following. without this no business will survive and evolve and we have to remember that is what dave is running - a business, on the other hand a business is no good without customers (competitors, spectators)!!
my 2C anyways................
1986 - Stage 1 V8 serIII style side ute - gone
1997 - 300 TDI 130 single cab ute - gone
1986 - 90 defender soft top, bars, buttons and tyres
2000 - TD5 disco 'the boss's rig'
1997 - 300 TDI 130 single cab ute - gone
1986 - 90 defender soft top, bars, buttons and tyres
2000 - TD5 disco 'the boss's rig'
[quote="digsy"]
I'd almost bet cash money that someone is in Dave's ear complaining because back in the day they were competitive and now with the new Cream of the Crop vehicles that people have built, they aren't so competitive and are slowly getting pushed out of the sport...
quote]
That would be a very bad bet to make, it would cost you a lot of dollars.
I make my own decision I do not need someone else to do that for me.
But time has come to rein it back.
Why? It has got completely out of hand and in the long run it will be best for the sport.
A lot of good comments have come in, and I thank those for their time that they took to put forward ideas.
I will be talking (as I have) to other event organisers during the week.
I am all for promotion, I can only do so much.
It is also up to the competitors to promote themselves & their sponsor as I try to do with mine.
So guys get the iron out & press your sponsors shirts and do some promoting at events to give your sponsor his dollars worth.
Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport
I'd almost bet cash money that someone is in Dave's ear complaining because back in the day they were competitive and now with the new Cream of the Crop vehicles that people have built, they aren't so competitive and are slowly getting pushed out of the sport...
quote]
That would be a very bad bet to make, it would cost you a lot of dollars.
I make my own decision I do not need someone else to do that for me.
But time has come to rein it back.
Why? It has got completely out of hand and in the long run it will be best for the sport.
A lot of good comments have come in, and I thank those for their time that they took to put forward ideas.
I will be talking (as I have) to other event organisers during the week.
I am all for promotion, I can only do so much.
It is also up to the competitors to promote themselves & their sponsor as I try to do with mine.
So guys get the iron out & press your sponsors shirts and do some promoting at events to give your sponsor his dollars worth.
Cheers
David Metcalfe
Competition Manager
Xtreme 4x4 Sport
David Metcalfe, runs Xtreme 4X4 Sport which is the home of ARB Xtreme Winch Challenge Series, Xtreme International & 4WD Angel Adventure supporting Angel Flight Australia
Personally i did'nt read Mick's post that way, I thought he was talking about a per truck return and how some people expect sponsorship simply because they are building a truck to compete, he cant and wont sponsor everyone therefore has to select who and what he does sponsor.digsy wrote:And the other thing Superior...
You need to be careful what is percieved and what is real...
I built a GQ patrol using almost all Superior Parts based soley on your proven reputation at events like Tough Tracks and what not...
I know that you say you don't get anything back but the pure number of vehicles that you have competing and being competitive and not breaking too often does translate directly into sales for you... in Rockhampton your product is very very popular because of your good marketing/sponsership by current standards...
People know your product and name because of the vehicles that you have and there is probably alot of really good little fab shops turning out a high quality product that haven't done that and that directly translates into NO SALES...
T.
This thread to me, seems to suffer alot from tall poppy syndrome and im sure some of the trucks that superior sponsor get he same thing. You only need to stand in the crowd and here people complain about certain drivers and trucks and this can have both a positive and negitive reflection on a business. I often get asked by people for sponsorship simply because they wont something for nothing, they dont like being told NO and quite often get pissed off, i have never meet these people and they just phone up, if you are serious go and see the person, be fair, offer them something and when they see a return for their time and money you will see one 10 fold. At the end of the day, it is a business not a charity that is going to sponsor you so keep that in mind.
NICK
TECH SCREW GURU
this is all I based that statement off about not dropping the sponsers he had... I did clearly say that I definately agreed that every tom dick and harry shouldn't get sponsered nore anyone EXPECT sponser ship money... we all gotta work for our coin one way or another... And I totally agree with you Nick. People have to go to the shops/business owners/PR officers. They need to have sat down and organised a clear concise business proposition that clearly sets out what the advantage to said business is for their dollars... This is the way that every other sport, athlete and business operates... so why not XWC and winch challange competitors as a whole...SuperiorEngineering wrote: Superior Engineering is considering dropping 8 sponsored trucks this year because their is no real point in sponsoring vehicles as we do not get much back for the money it costs, their is no real tv coverage and the crowds are small.
Again all the other racing started somewhere... Challenge events have the possibility to become fringe mainstream...
Last edited by digsy on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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That's good news Dave and I can fully appreciate that.XTREME MMM wrote:digsy wrote:
I'd almost bet cash money that someone is in Dave's ear complaining because back in the day they were competitive and now with the new Cream of the Crop vehicles that people have built, they aren't so competitive and are slowly getting pushed out of the sport...
quote]
That would be a very bad bet to make, it would cost you a lot of dollars.
I make my own decision I do not need someone else to do that for me.
As I said before you need to make the decision as it is your comp and your race. And I honestly know you have the best at heart...
I really love XWC... It's been keeping me entertained for many many years and I look forward to many years to come.
I just want to see it prosper... and prosper is dollars and dollars come from sponsers and sponsers come from better promotion and exciting vehicles.
Surely even MMM could dream a little about a Rockstar/Xtreme Racing series.............................................................
Imagine the dollars you'd have to play with then.....
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.....
All I can say is cut 4wd loose and get video footage out to everyone. We here in CQ and many other parts of Australia don’t get 4wd TV so don’t see any of the footage taken from the comps that are held here in our own back yard and we are the people paying to come through the gate to watch the XWC event. How can we get sponsorship for our trucks if we don’t get any coverage out into the media? In this day and age of Internet and other media outlets we should be able to broadcast our events to the world not just the few community TV stations throughout Australia. I at the moment am building a web site to go along with the truck I am building to race in the comps so as soon as I start racing I can launch the site and get my name out amongst the crowd. Here is some footage I put together from clips I got from youtube of Madica Racing at Cliffhanger( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8hzdbPsQeI ). Now this is what I have been able to do with footage I have got from youtube. Once I start racing and am able to get my own footage I will be able to edit a better video. This is what I will be doing every time I race to get myself and my truck out to the public and start a following. It wouldn’t be hard to do the same thing for an event like XWC have 5 or 6 people with video cameras to film the event and then have someone edit it down for a DVD for everyone to enjoy look at what the boys from mud rhino do for cliffhanger.
As for the new rules I love watching Jacko in his blown v8 it would be sad to see guys like that slip away from the comps around here, how could you not like the sound of that truck coming your way.
PS. This post was influenced by Bundaberg’s finest so if it makes no sense disregard…
Rant over……….
As for the new rules I love watching Jacko in his blown v8 it would be sad to see guys like that slip away from the comps around here, how could you not like the sound of that truck coming your way.
PS. This post was influenced by Bundaberg’s finest so if it makes no sense disregard…
Rant over……….
www.teamecr.com.au
Guys it is just a penalty. We have all had good laugh's, events and beers with MEAN MR METCALFE and there is no point insulting each other because at the end of the day it is all about mateship.
I understand exactly where MEAN MR METCALFE is coming from.
Big changes are always hard to take at the start but we all get over it and then it is back to buissness as usual.
It is only a matter of time when the event will be ended early and we all have to go home while MEAN MR METCALFE will have to stay behind and scrape some ones son of a tree and explain to the authorities why he didnt slow things down.
I believe the events have a wow enough factor now to keep the spectators happy. We now just have to clean our trucks up and hope for the best.
MEAN MR METCALFE is not taking us backwards he is just capping the sport if that is the word.
Cris
I understand exactly where MEAN MR METCALFE is coming from.
Big changes are always hard to take at the start but we all get over it and then it is back to buissness as usual.
It is only a matter of time when the event will be ended early and we all have to go home while MEAN MR METCALFE will have to stay behind and scrape some ones son of a tree and explain to the authorities why he didnt slow things down.
I believe the events have a wow enough factor now to keep the spectators happy. We now just have to clean our trucks up and hope for the best.
MEAN MR METCALFE is not taking us backwards he is just capping the sport if that is the word.
Cris
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