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Best Corrosion Protection For Custom Parts
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Best Corrosion Protection For Custom Parts
When fitting custom parts to a 4wd whats the best way to protect steel alloys from corrosion? Something that will best endure being scraped on rocks, being caked in mud, having stones thrown at it at highway speeds on dirt roads etcetc
e.g.
Powercoating
Zinc plating
Etch primer and paint
Galvanising
etcetc
Thanks
e.g.
Powercoating
Zinc plating
Etch primer and paint
Galvanising
etcetc
Thanks
Mate, galvanising will be the most hardy, but ulimately parts like radius arms and shackles will be prone to scrapes and no coating is going to prevent the rock taking it down to bare metal.
Powdercoating would be my next choice.
Some say 2pac is better, six to one half a dozen to the other i reckon.
Powdercoating would be my next choice.
Some say 2pac is better, six to one half a dozen to the other i reckon.
Get out there!!
Re: Best Corrosion Protection For Custom Parts
Anything that is going to be scraped against rocks is going to end up rusty ... Zinc plating perhaps and then keep a coat of flat black on it, easy to touch up when it does get knocked off.nullack wrote:When fitting custom parts to a 4wd whats the best way to protect steel alloys from corrosion? Something that will best endure being scraped on rocks, being caked in mud, having stones thrown at it at highway speeds on dirt roads etcetc
e.g.
Powercoating
Zinc plating
Etch primer and paint
Galvanising
etcetc
Thanks
" If governments are involved in the covering up the knowledge of aliens, Then they are doing a much better job of it than they do of everything else "
A point to remember, if a part is going to be hot dip galvanised and it has any sealed voids, or dead ends where water can sit, they will not accept it. as it may create a massive explosion when it is immersed, the solution is to drill large holes which is probably very undesirable for structural parts.
While Gal is the best option for outright protection from the elements, it doesn't slide across rocks well and when you do scrape the zinc off it is hard to patch.
Peter.
While Gal is the best option for outright protection from the elements, it doesn't slide across rocks well and when you do scrape the zinc off it is hard to patch.
Peter.
Cable bracing is the way of the future!
v840 said "That sounds like a booty fab, hack job piece of shit no offence."
v840 said "That sounds like a booty fab, hack job piece of shit no offence."
For such parts (containing sealed voids), spray galvanising is a great option.droopypete wrote:A point to remember, if a part is going to be hot dip galvanised and it has any sealed voids, or dead ends where water can sit, they will not accept it. as it may create a massive explosion when it is immersed, the solution is to drill large holes which is probably very undesirable for structural parts.
While Gal is the best option for outright protection from the elements, it doesn't slide across rocks well and when you do scrape the zinc off it is hard to patch.
Peter.
It blows molten zinc spray onto the surface. Not quite as good as hot dip, but suitable for a lot more parts.
If galv gets scratched through, the rest of the zinc prevents the exposed steel from rusting. Provided you haven't painted over the sacrificial zinc of course.
Por15 is the go, if you want abrasion and scratch resistance it's a two pack paint, goes on really easy, and a little bit goes a long way, 1 litre will do a whole chassis.
I can't tell you how good this stuff is, much better than powder coat.
Nothing is going to survive sliding against rocks for to long though, even Gal
http://www.por15.com/
I can't tell you how good this stuff is, much better than powder coat.
Nothing is going to survive sliding against rocks for to long though, even Gal
http://www.por15.com/
Ban Warning labels and let Darwinism rule![img]http://www.downunder4x4.net/forum/images/smilies/pray.gif[/img]
Me too, and walking around a wrecker reinforces it. Look at an old powdercoated bullbar vs an old painted bullbar.macca81 wrote:have heard the same, from several sourcesISUZUROVER wrote:Several powdercoaters have told me that 2-pac paint is more durable.nullack wrote:Mate how is por 15 specifically better than powdercoat? Thanks
This is not legal advice.
Stainless steel do not have the strength (tensile, compression shear) and the toughness of other steel alloys. Yes you can make it out of stainless steel but it wont be an optimal design if the builder wants a tough and strong part. Theres other reasons but for the sake of not writing a book those are the two key ones.
Im looking at using 300M (4340 modified) DOM tubing and heat treating - local aircraft place is overstocked. Its an excellent ultra high strength and toughness steel alloy. This will enable me to use a thinner wall section than say 1026 DOM and still exceed the mechanical capacibilities of 1026. IMHO too many builders ignore the problem of added mass to their vehicles especially in wagons there aint much difference between tare and gross mass when you add up all the stuff they put onto the chassis.
Im looking at using 300M (4340 modified) DOM tubing and heat treating - local aircraft place is overstocked. Its an excellent ultra high strength and toughness steel alloy. This will enable me to use a thinner wall section than say 1026 DOM and still exceed the mechanical capacibilities of 1026. IMHO too many builders ignore the problem of added mass to their vehicles especially in wagons there aint much difference between tare and gross mass when you add up all the stuff they put onto the chassis.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree.nullack wrote:Stainless steel do not have the strength (tensile, compression shear) and the toughness of other steel alloys. Yes you can make it out of stainless steel but it wont be an optimal design if the builder wants a tough and strong part. Theres other reasons but for the sake of not writing a book those are the two key ones.
Im looking at using 300M (4340 modified) DOM tubing and heat treating - local aircraft place is overstocked. Its an excellent ultra high strength and toughness steel alloy. This will enable me to use a thinner wall section than say 1026 DOM and still exceed the mechanical capacibilities of 1026. IMHO too many builders ignore the problem of added mass to their vehicles especially in wagons there aint much difference between tare and gross mass when you add up all the stuff they put onto the chassis.
Speccing an expensive and extremely intensive material to weld will probably not give you the weight reductions you're expecting to find.
Better design will let you use mild or medium tensile steel for pretty much all of the fabricated parts.
4340 is suitable for gear axles and half-shafts. Not for fabrications.
Remember, to use the 2000 MPa strength of 4340, a part has to flex 10 times further than mild-steel. There aren't many parts where this offers an advantage which makes the extra strength and expense, redundant.
I dont understand the logic of your post mate. It seems contrary to proven designs such as 300M DOM tube landing gear in aircraft, 300M DOM tube engine mounts etcetc. You cant compare the strength and toughness of say rockwell 30 heat treated 300M to say annealled 1020. Besides, the supplier has it cheap.
I think that Dougal's point is that unless you are 100% sure how to get the best out of a material like 4340M/300m, then you may as well use a lower grade material.nullack wrote:I dont understand the logic of your post mate. It seems contrary to proven designs such as 300M DOM tube landing gear in aircraft, 300M DOM tube engine mounts etcetc. You cant compare the strength and toughness of say rockwell 30 heat treated 300M to say annealled 1020. Besides, the supplier has it cheap.
Aircraft landing gear designers have teams of people doing FEA optimisation and QC on every individual component...
300M steel is often used in landing gear because of its high strength and high fracture toughness. Conversely, 300M steel is highly susceptible to corrosion fatigue and stress corrosion cracking (SCC), which can lead to catastrophic consequences for aircraft landing gear. Shot peening and plating of the landing gear are used to suppress corrosion fatigue and SCC with limited success. A method that will produce deeper compression in critical regions of landing gear will provide a dramatic improvement in foreign object damage (FOD) tolerance, corrosion fatigue strength and SCC susceptibility. This paper discusses the use of low plasticity burnishing (LPB) to provide a deep layer of residual compression to improve damage tolerance and mitigate SCC of 300M steel.
The fatigue performance of LPB processed 300M steel test samples were compared to those in a shot peened or low-stress-ground (LSG) condition. LPB treatment dramatically improved the high cycle fatigue (HCF) and corrosion fatigue performance with and without a simulated defect. LPB reduced the surface stress well below the SCC threshold for 300M, even under high tensile applied loads, effectively suppressing the SCC failure mechanism. SCC testing of LPB treated landing gear sections at tensile stresses ranging from 1030 to 2270 MPa (150 to 180 ksi) was terminated after 1500 hrs without failure, compared to failure in as little as 13 hours without LPB treatment.
_____________________________________________________________
RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
Compare the cost of aircraft landing gear to any other fabrication and you'll see exactly what I mean.nullack wrote:I dont understand the logic of your post mate. It seems contrary to proven designs such as 300M DOM tube landing gear in aircraft, 300M DOM tube engine mounts etcetc. You cant compare the strength and toughness of say rockwell 30 heat treated 300M to say annealled 1020. Besides, the supplier has it cheap.
4340 has 0.4% carbon, 300m is 0.4-0.46% carbon.
Both of these are basically the upper limit of weldability. The precautions you have to take to prevent hydrogen embrittlement of the welds will make for an extremely slow and expensive welding process with a lot of rework.
Even if the material is free, the end result will be very expensive to guarantee it's crack free.
But my main point is, if you're stressing parts of an offroad vehicle frame to levels where hardened 4340 is needed, then your design needs more work.
can you give some examples of what you are making and your designs?nullack wrote:Stainless steel do not have the strength (tensile, compression shear) and the toughness of other steel alloys. Yes you can make it out of stainless steel but it wont be an optimal design if the builder wants a tough and strong part. Theres other reasons but for the sake of not writing a book those are the two key ones.
Im looking at using 300M (4340 modified) DOM tubing and heat treating - local aircraft place is overstocked. Its an excellent ultra high strength and toughness steel alloy. This will enable me to use a thinner wall section than say 1026 DOM and still exceed the mechanical capacibilities of 1026. IMHO too many builders ignore the problem of added mass to their vehicles especially in wagons there aint much difference between tare and gross mass when you add up all the stuff they put onto the chassis.
Serg
Its just suspension links and steering links. No section changes, circular. The factory links work for fine dynamic loads in normal situations but they go plastic when shock loaded by being smashed on rocks etcetc. I used to simply sleeve them with 1020 DOM but that wasnt always tough / strong enough. Now Im looking at making whole new links.
Mate I take the point about the pre and post welding procedures of 300M but with my mate whos a professional welder it all costs a few beers and some laughs
Mate I take the point about the pre and post welding procedures of 300M but with my mate whos a professional welder it all costs a few beers and some laughs
So buckling under shock loads?nullack wrote:Its just suspension links and steering links. No section changes, circular. The factory links work for fine dynamic loads in normal situations but they go plastic when shock loaded by being smashed on rocks etcetc. I used to simply sleeve them with 1020 DOM but that wasnt always tough / strong enough. Now Im looking at making whole new links.
Mate I take the point about the pre and post welding procedures of 300M but with my mate whos a professional welder it all costs a few beers and some laughs
Bigger tubes there will give you far better results than a change in material will.
There is one scenario where higher strength steel will work better. But that's in the rare case when the tube buckles and the load disappears before it's buckled far enough to stay bent.
Is this going to help?
the whole weight argument really goes out the window if your just making some trailing arms and steering links...
if you were building a race buggy or TT i would totally agree and thats why the space frame chassis are made from cromo and links are fabbed from 4340 and heat treated....but they are trying to achive very high strength and light weight....their designs are very important...
for link material a good cost effective choice that is still easlierly weldable is euro-norm from bolher...
Serg
if you were building a race buggy or TT i would totally agree and thats why the space frame chassis are made from cromo and links are fabbed from 4340 and heat treated....but they are trying to achive very high strength and light weight....their designs are very important...
for link material a good cost effective choice that is still easlierly weldable is euro-norm from bolher...
Serg
It dosn't really matter what you coat your arms /sliders in, they will both get scratched and will end up bare metal and rust, besides it's only minor rust, just re paint it or put up with it. Your Not really gonna rust your suspension arms in half in a real hurry.
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98 GU 4500 ST Stock.
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