Notice: We request that you don't just set up a new account at this time if you are a previous user.
If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
Recovery:If you cannot access your old email address and don't remember your password, please click here to log a change of email address so you can do a password reset.

SAS for an X90 Build-up

Tech Talk for Suzuki owners.

Moderators: lay80n, sierrajim

Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

SAS for an X90 Build-up

Post by Chicy »

Hi Guys... First of all, i am female, so dont be too hard on me...
I need serious help here and after chasing all sorts of forums, you guys seem to be the only ones that seem to understand some of the components i am having trouble with...

OK... I have a 97 X90 and i want to put toyota or nissan (any other suggestions) solid axle/diffs under my zuk with 32" tyres. The wheel base is so wide on the x90 that hilux is too narrow. Now the diff ratio at present is at 5.13.1, and currently running 26in tyres, so with the bigger tyres (32") as well to compensate, what diff and ratio would i need to go to, so to get everything back in sink again and then what transfer case can i convert to, to make it all come together.. The x90 has IFS and i really want to go to solid axles for better play.

I need to act fast before the minister changes the rules again...
Any help would be greatly appreciated....
I love a good challenge and yes i know it is gunna cost a lot but i love this little unique 4by and love impressin ppl with what it is capable of stock let alone what it will be able to do once it grows big...lol
and dont just tell me the diff ratio, i need to know what that ratio is out of, like 80 series toyota or 97 nissan....
I did read somewhere that you should use pre 1987 in the front and post 1987 in the back, why i dont know....

PLEASE HELP...... :?
Last edited by Chicy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 11:41 am
Location: Anywhere

Post by lockdup »

SAS for 32"? Your better off running a larger tyre if your going to go to that extent.
5.12, 34" SUPERSWAMPER, REAR AIR LOCKED
Posts: 1213
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:25 pm
Location: SE Melbourne

Post by dank »

Hey Chicy,

Good to see the girls getting stuck into it. First of all we want pics!...of the car that is :D.

Why not consider something like Bundera front and rear diffs? they already have coil and link mounts and you could probably use the standard arms as well.

You can get some nice ratios with bundy diffs as well from 3.9 to 4.88 off the top of my head, but don't limit yourself to getting all of your gearing from just the diffs. I"m not sure what sort of drive train you've got, guessing efi 1.6 and auto/5spd with attached transfer.

if you are going to all the trouble of an SAS then doing a twin transfer with a sierra leaf sprung case/hilux case and gearing would be a sweet mod giving you a wide range of gearing options.

As for track width, this can be sorted no probs with some custom offset rims.

For all the effort on doing an SAS I wouldn't be looking at running anything under a 35" tyre.

Although you could look at gusseted/braced sierra front diff CrMo cvs and axles and a hybrid full floater vitara rear diff and around a 33" tyre. Speak to Gwagensteve/CJ/greg about that mod. That would be a cool mod with lots of good ground clearance.

If you really want to go nuts get a set of Marks adapters portal axles and strap them onto a set of GU patrol diffs....

Good luck and keep us updated.
Work - KPD4X4.COM - KPD Industries Australian Distributor of Diesel Power Modules - Germany.
Play - dank's zook
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

This is also my daily driver, so dont want to go too low on the ratios either
I am currently running 26" tyres..

The guards would need choppin too much for bigger tyres, i wanted 33" but partner said too big too much hassle, so am stuck with 32"... also am hoping not to chop the guards as i have heard you can buy a roller/flarer from Bursens in penrith for easy bucks, so am hopin to flare the guards right out if possible
Posts: 6221
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 12:51 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by v840 »

Overkill Engineering in Hornsby did one using 60s diffs IIRC. May be worth giving them a ring.


Found a pic.

Image
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|.........SUZUKI..........| ||'|";, ____.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ]
(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

Thanks, great response already...

Yes pics soon... :D
It does have efi 1.6L and 5 speed manual

Yes i would like to go coils not leaf springs

I just wanna get good ground clearance but at the same time keeping the weight as low as possible to the ground, especially with these new impending rules that are tryin to sneak in....
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

Wow, that is so kool, but its my daily driver, i wanna be able to still drive on the road, but i love the pic, thanks.. :rofl:

I have tried to contact Overkill but since all the engineering rules went pearshaped they have been uncontactable...

and i am in a real hurry... lol
Posts: 3513
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:52 am
Location: Perth, WA

Post by alien »

personally i wouldnt recommend calling overkill for anything... but anyways...

sierra diffs on 31's have the same clearance as lux diffs on 33's... so factor that in with what you're planning... IMO keep it all zuk - go 32's and put sierra WT diffs under there with some offset rims...
The worst thing about censorship is ███████.
Posts: 3722
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 7:32 pm
Location: perth wa

Post by bazooked »

alien wrote:personally i wouldnt recommend calling overkill for anything... but anyways...

sierra diffs on 31's have the same clearance as lux diffs on 33's... so factor that in with what you're planning... IMO keep it all zuk - go 32's and put sierra WT diffs under there with some offset rims...
really dude how many times????////

stfu or gtfo
buggy time............
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:17 pm
Location: Maitland, where the best are built

Post by 31zook »

Hey, this is a yank hack job. Just go to the bottom and you will see the SAS...
http://www.zukikrawlers.com/showthread. ... light=X-90
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Canberra

Post by Toecutta »

I would contact Joeblow, but you would have to take it to melb
LWB Vit, Trail Slayer
Posts: 13555
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:28 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by grimbo »

to fit 32s you don't need to go to the trouble of SASing it. That route is alot of money to get it right and legal. Whereas fitting a 32 via more traditional routes is possible. Mind you a 30 or 31 is probably a way better idea for a daily driver on an X90.
Ransom note = demand + collage
Posts: 7345
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:29 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gwagensteve »

You're not going to gain more ground clearance or lower your centre of gravity by putting a live axle under your car (honestly) and it's going to cost you thousands of dollars.

The IFS is one of the best design elements of the vitara/X-90 - it's easy to get very good travel out of, it's strong enough, handles very well, has good parts support and is already under your car- and will happily run a 32" tyre.

You've already worked out you can't gear bigger tyres with a live axle, so you're going to have to run a sierra transfer case or something (more $$$ and fab work)

Additionally, if you're daily driving your car, the loss of handling and possible quirks ( vibrations, clucks, wobbles etc) that often occur with a live axle conversion will be a PITA.

Dank's right - Bundera axles and a sierra transfer case behind your vitara one would be one solution if you really want to go down the path, but I can't see any point - you'd have to be on 35" tyres or bigger to have a real advantage over the IFS you have now if it's properly set up.

Look at running a steel housing, Calmini arms, springs and strut spacers, and OME struts.

Just my 2C.

Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Posts: 859
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:49 pm
Location: Adelaide Hills S.A.

Post by atari4x4 »

I'd be sticking with the IFS, as a daily driver mines nice to drive on the road & goes everywhere off road! Unless you're going to be doing tuff truck or winch racing the IFS will be fine on that sized tyre once lifted, the only drama would be regearing it in high range.

Now it's locked in the front I quite regulary out drive pootrols & landbruisers on 33's

Image

Image

Image[/quote]
---------===== LOWRANGE JUNKIE =====---------
atari4x4 build up ~ MT/R 31's, calmini, body lift, j20a, 5.12 r&p + other stuff ~
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... 6&t=162392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

The main aim of all this is ground clearance and also i am involved with a 4wd club with mainly supersized nissans and landcruisers, whom like to do fairly extreme types of tracks etc. so i do like to follow them, wether it be rock crawling, hill climbs or mud ( love the mud yeh), but i would also like to start going to some events like Peel (Bathurst), Blackrat (Hargreaves) and maybe try my hand at Nissan Trials... so i want it fairly chunky with grunt....

I am also planning to do ARB Air Lockers front and back, maybe turbo it, not sure till i see how good the gear power comes along yet or headers, custom bullbar and custom swing away bar at the back (Get the tyre out of the boot) and a snorkel of course.....
Posts: 13555
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:28 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by grimbo »

if you want to do all that you may be better served used a vehicle more upto the task. the amount of mods you will have to do get it suitbale for that sort of stuff is going to cost a bundle and in the end 32s wont be enough tyre anyway.
Ransom note = demand + collage
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

Grimbo, did you miss reading above, that i am female..... :D
(Look at your avatar, thats me right now)

I dont want the best car, i want "that" car and all my kids have left home now and i get to spend what little money i have, all on my car and i know i will never get back its worth, but i dont care... its unique and different, just like me.... :D
Posts: 3513
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:52 am
Location: Perth, WA

Post by alien »

i like your attitude =)

make sure before you start any work you consult and engineer too - even if you're not engineering it to be road worthy in the legal sense, they often have information and ideas that will save you time/money/heartache (like making sure steering components etc are safely addressed and are suited to the application), and consultation is usually cheap compared to them doing inspections etc.
The worst thing about censorship is ███████.
Posts: 7345
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:29 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gwagensteve »

Chicy wrote:The main aim of all this is ground clearance and also i am involved with a 4wd club with mainly supersized nissans and landcruisers, whom like to do fairly extreme types of tracks etc. so i do like to follow them, wether it be rock crawling, hill climbs or mud ( love the mud yeh),

... so i want it fairly chunky with grunt....
Sounds to me like some of those Nissan and Toyota owners have been in your ear about what makes a "capable" car.

If you are going to limit tyre size to 32 (maybe even 33) a solid axle swap is a waste of time and money. Personally, I'd rather outdrive a nissan or toyota on an IFS than swap a solid axle in and potentially loose capability in some circumstances.

The big issue is that once you go to solid axles, you are stuck with the same ground clearance as your toyota/nissan mates. If you're running a cruiser axle (probably the best option) with a 32" tyre, then you only have as much clearance as a cruiser with a 32" tyre. If they have more tyre then you, they'll always do better, and you will have spent all the time and money and not really gained very much.

If you keep the standard rear diff (plenty for a 32-33" tyre) and the IFS front with the usual upgrades, you'll have far more clearance with, say, a 32" tyre than a patrol/cruiser on a 35" tyre or bigger, and your car will be sweeter to drive under all circumstances.

One of the "tricks" of the vitara platform is that they don't want to pick front wheels up. It's a by product of suspension design and weight distribution. As a result, they tend to stay very stable and predictable, even on very severe angles. That's not necessarily going to be the case once you switch to a live axle, and will depend very heavily on how the geometry was set up - a real minefield.

Over the years, I've been very very impressed with what the vitara IFS can achieve. That's what I'd be working with.

You really need to work on the strengths of your vehicle over a cruiser/patrol to get the best out of it. Light weight, a high power to weight ratio (really, compared to most large 4WD's) the nose-lead balance of the vitara, and availability and cost of transfer gears are the strengths you need to work with.

Ripping everything out and putting heavier stuff in is really going to level the playing field out by adding weight and bulk to your car, which works in the favour of the bigger cars you drive with.

Right now you have the opportunity to outperform them if you build the car right.

Steve.

Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Posts: 13555
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:28 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by grimbo »

Chicy wrote:Grimbo, did you miss reading above, that i am female..... :D
(Look at your avatar, thats me right now)

I dont want the best car, i want "that" car and all my kids have left home now and i get to spend what little money i have, all on my car and i know i will never get back its worth, but i dont care... its unique and different, just like me.... :D
oh sorry, do you want me to type slower and use smaller words























Joking :D

As Gwagen has said better than I did build your X90 using the structure it comes with. In the end you will have a much better all round vehicle that will surprise you and the others with its capability
Ransom note = demand + collage
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

I am going to go to an engineer and i do want it street legal with tickets, but my understanding is that you need to know what you are going to do and what you are going to use to do it, before you go to the engineer.. they just tell you wether it will be right or not, but dont tell you how you can go about it... is this correct..... :?
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

LMAO @ Grimbo

Thanks for the clarification... :D
Posts: 7345
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:29 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Gwagensteve »

Chicy wrote:I am going to go to an engineer and i do want it street legal with tickets, but my understanding is that you need to know what you are going to do and what you are going to use to do it, before you go to the engineer.. they just tell you wether it will be right or not, but dont tell you how you can go about it... is this correct..... :?
That's pretty much correct. An engineer will only tell you what is permissible, not whether it's a good idea or not, or whether it's going to work well for what you want to do.

Steve.
[quote="greg"] some say he is a man without happy dreams, or that he sees silver linings on clouds and wonders why they are not platinum... all we know, is he's called the stevie.[/quote]
Posts: 3722
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2003 7:32 pm
Location: perth wa

Post by bazooked »

buggy time............
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

ALERT = Female + Indecision

MMMMMMMMMMMMM

Good food for thought Gwagensteve

No one has really been in my ear, i just hate not being able to go where the guys go..

I am by far not a good driver, but i do like to have a go and am willing to listen and learn...
Posts: 376
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:25 pm
Location: bris

Post by fordy1 »

surprised this X90 ( OSCAR ) has not been mentioned yet! :shock:

great ride and it was done at manell motors.

http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/x-files/do ... sted_2.php

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/shed/index.php?id=4112
www.outdoorauto.com.au - we love doing new GVs....
User avatar
A1
Posts: 3451
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:57 pm
Location: NEWCASTLE

Post by A1 »

1 More of the V8 X90

Image
[b][i] DAN [/i] [/b]


:silly:
Posts: 5226
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 2:03 pm
Location: Sydney

Post by Squik »

You don't need to swap out axles... my baby was locked and geared and was hell fun :armsup:

Image

Nick at Mannell Motors did most of mine... he knows what you'll be up against, so have a chat with him.

Keep it Zook :D - mine was a nice, comfy daily driver and felt nice on the road...
DRS smells like a cat-food milkshake... and wet socks... and gorgonzola cheese... all whizzed up in a blender
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:52 pm
Location: sydney

Post by danssurf82 »

32's fit on my vitara with just 2 inch lift and a little guard chopping. why go to all that extent for 32's? which will have less ground clearance with bigger diffs? go 37's.

with my 31's that im running now and rear locker i have all the sky scraper pootrols and hilux's cant believe how good it goes

at zig zags there was a club(wont mention which one) but we lined up behind them at a steep rutted out hill, it was taking them 20 min a car to get up and they had 35's+ and most were twin locked and half of them had to winch up at the top where there was a bit of a bog hole. my vit and mates jimny(3 inch lift 31's-unlocked) both just drove up it. you should of seen the look on their faces- hahaha
[quote="MissForby"]"I like Pillows. I'm not allowed anything hard" :D[/quote]
94 vitara, rear air locker, 31's, dual battery, custom front and rear tube bars, chopped guards, reduction gears
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 pm
Location: Bogan Gate

Post by Chicy »

ok factor this in..

Guys, i am 5ft nothing, exactly

Ohhh, someone is gunna design me a springloaded step or something.. :D
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests