[FEROZA] Gearbox / transfer case overhaul

[wacky]

Hey all,

Well I thought I'd ask the experts - you guys that have done it before - is there anything stopping me from disconnecting/removing the transfer case from the rear of the gearbox?

I need to get in there and survey the damage, remove my broken chain fragments and the chain itself and use RWD/2H for now until I source/fund a replacement.

To clarify what I mean, is there anything internally holding them together (as in you can only take them apart from the inside-out, circlips etc preventing the gearbox output shaft from slipping out of the transfer input area??) or is it just straight undo bolts, slide the transfer back and done? (gear linkage to gearbox disconnected)

I have seen the service manuals, but they are more "remove gearbox/transfer/everything for absolute reco-overhaul" (which would be OK if you could still get all the bits). I know the transfer case uses the rear of the gearbox as a way to enclose itself, the gearbox rear IS the transfers front-cover, but just wondering if its as easy as it ought to be (looks), or trickier?

Thanks
wacky

[DAT MAN]

No you just undo the bolts on the out side and pull it off I think I left the stick on and just removed the ball
I changed mine in about 45min

[MightyMouse]

Just keep in mind that the Feroza manual and transfer are pretty weak units. So I wouldn't be spending BIG DOLLARS on lots of new bits as at the days end its still got all the basic issues.

[Goatse.AJ]

EASY to split the tranny case from the back of the gearbox. 45min sounds about right.

[wacky]

I've had tons of experience with early Holdens (and recent ones) but Daihatsu's are new to me. I just wanted to check that it was as easy as it appears.

The manual, during the disassembly stage, goes from talking about removing the rear of the transfer, then taking the inspection/gear cover off the gearbox and locking 1st-3rd etc etc, so I didnt wanna have to drop both if I didn't have to - the manual has the gearbox/transfer out of the car for a full dismantle/reco.

If only this rain would let up during the day, I'd be out there under it, getting it done.

Don't worry, will take plenty of pics!!

[monmendoza]

Hi wacky, while you are at it. can you take pictures of the inside
of the transfer case? Ty

Have anybody in the forum ever thought of replacing some of the gears inside the transfer case and fabricate new ones to increase low gear ratio from the current 1.754 to something higher like 2.5 to 3? It would be nice if we can have a lower crawl ratio for our rozas, Samurai TCs have many aftermarket gears for sale to change it to 4.0 or 6 low ratio.

[wacky]

Hey all.

Today I started to remove the transfer, undid the gear boots, disconnected the breather, undid the transfer shifter lever - then had visitors.

I had my stuff (tools) stored at my mums at once stage, and my brothers pilfered through all my gear - long story short - bugger all sockets and no socket wrench.... certainly keeps things interesting (spanners....)

Tomorrow I'll have it out, and will take pics of every step when I disassemble it, so we can all see what their insides look like, potential problems etc all in glorious hi-res images - adding to the knowledge-pool is my plan

[wacky]

Getting there, tailshafts out, jacked the transfer up, 7 of 8 bolts undone - the top bolt connecting the transfer to the transfer front casing (aka back of gearbox) is a prick to get to - you can see it plainly from under the bonnet, but the angles and obstacles make it hard. I've got 2ft of extensions with a flexy bit and be stuffed if I can do it on my own.... waiting for a helper to turn up.... fun fun

[wacky]

Well, I've just about put that top bolt into the "too bloody hard without customised tools". What it needs is an L-shaped 14mm, or a socket welded to a 10cm bar then hit with a hammer - theres just no bloody room in the tunnel to even get a spanner on it, and anything you can get on it cant be bloody turned because of obstacles and nowhere to counter-lever it on.

Tomorrow I'm doing one of 3 things:

* Making a custom tool by welding a 14mm socket to a short 10cm bar (at right-angle)
* Cutting a 14mm spanner in half then welding it into an L shape, then hit with hammer
* Skip all of the above, remove the crossmembers and drop the gearbox/transfer together

Working on a tarp on wet grass is fun, til the mud turns up...

[monmendoza]

Good luck Wacky. We are following on your progress.

[flyinwall]

if you drop the cross member down a bit would you be able to get to the bolt or is it not that easy to access

even if you had to drop the t/case and g/box in one hit then you would be easy to get to it all and no fancy (dodgy) tools to be made

[MightyMouse]

Hi wacky, while you are at it. can you take pictures of the inside
of the transfer case? Ty

Have anybody in the forum ever thought of replacing some of the gears inside the transfer case and fabricate new ones to increase low gear ratio from the current 1.754 to something higher like 2.5 to 3? It would be nice if we can have a lower crawl ratio for our rozas, Samurai TCs have many aftermarket gears for sale to change it to 4.0 or 6 low ratio.

Yes i have and no i didn't - cost was out of this world and the change in ratio possible wasn't worth all the work and cost.

There are more practical solutions

[wacky]

Well, clear skies made today the day - was supposed to have help this morning but that didn't happen, so I did it by myself - IT'S OUT!!

No ramps, just a Feroza jack (to hold the transfer/gearbox up) on lovely moist grass. Took gearbox and transfer out, as it will be easier to seal them up later (and get them together, that curse-d bolt!).

OK, now for some pics taken just before dark, after an initial cleanup...




(I have no idea why imageshack has titled the pages like that lol)

Fun things I found along the way: as I removed the gearbox shifter, which is mounted to the transfer case with 4 bolts, out comes a crapload of rusty water. It was half-full of the gunk! It does have a rubber boot with a little water drainage nipple, that was up the wrong way - so it's sat for god knows how long in rusty, almost barnacle-like water - no wonder shifting gears was tight/awkward! A cleanout and fresh grease'll fix that (wirebrushed and now soaking in RP7).

Tomorrow I crack it open, thats when the real fun begins!

[wacky]

Well, metal filings everywhere, front half has been running dry for a while (not enough oil), lower gearbox shaft support bearing is kaput (courtesy of metal filings) and chain ain't sittin' pretty - tucked up over itself in the upper portion of the rear case (havent got there yet, need 41mm spanner...), so I've seperated the gearbox and transfer and am accessing it front the front.




Managed to save the rear gasket, cleaned it up and scanned it so we all have a "copy" to go off, as you cant get the suckers. I will do this for all gaskets, as making them from scratch is never fun.


(Right Click the image and Save Picture As)

[MightyMouse]

Im' not quite sure what your trying to do wacky - if the box has run dry then the gears are going to be stuffed not just the bearings......

The case hardening on the gears is quite thin ( common to all gears ) and once this is worn their life is very limited and they will be very noisy whilst on the way out,

Just get a second hand transfer and do the bearings in that if needed.
Its usually "just" bearings that cause the initial noise so most are suitable to rebuild.

IMHO if the box is as bad as you indicate ists scrap metal.

Its not like there are no second hands ones out there ( at least not that i've heard...... ) and the bearings aren't free.

[wacky]

Thanks for your input MM.

This box is temporary until I can source/afford another ($650-1250). Most of the bearings are damaged (not all), the main centre support bearing dropped its bearings when I manually shifted, as I was investigating shaft wobble (trying to see if it was "normal").

So yeah, my main plan was to assess the damage with the intention of removing the drivechain (which powers front-wheels) and staying RWD only for now. Since it appears to of been mostly an on-roader, it hasnt spent lots of time in 4wd, and with the front diff/shaft etc not moving when in 2wd its saved a bit of wear (especially since the chain wasnt "made" to turn).

To be honest I'm amazed it wasnt worse that it was, I was initially just concerned with the whine coming from the box, lucky I checked it out as a drivechain getting jammed while crusing along at 110km/h wouldnt be nice.

Anyways, more pics of the lovely damage shortly.... you'll love it!

[wacky]

Click each picture for larger image - they have descriptions




What I meant above by the 4WD not being used much has limited damage to the front shaft bearings, they (2) are great with no noise or damage (since the chain, shafts, diff etc dont turn in 2WD mode)

[MightyMouse]

That makes sense - just didn't want you to blow you money....

If your going to do a swap - consider going to an auto.
I know where there are a couple sitting around. The torque multiplication from the torque converter goes some way to overcoming the poor transfer case ratio.

[wacky]

Keeping it manual at the moment, but have read many of your posts regarding the benefits of the auto (when I first signed up I read the first 60 forum pages - not threads, pages of threads lol - pity the pics are missing from the oldest ones).

Today I turned my attention of the transfer adaptor case. Since the Feroza's transfer and gearbox are directly joined (not divorced/seperate like others), the transfer adaptor holds the output gear from the gearbox, as well as a counter-gear, and also forms the front case of the transfer.

Here we have mine, before being cleaned. You can really see the results of the damage, metal filings everywhere around the casing and larger fragments at the bottom.



After the above pics where taken, I took a Neodymium magnet (ex-hardrive) and ran it around the casing to pickup any of the smaller fragments before a clean. Here is what came off:



Then I cleaned it out, much better.



I am jotting down each bearing as I go, and plan to approach ACL (huge local bearing manufacturer, just up the road) and if I can readily source them all, I will bunch them up with my gasket copies as a cheap kit for those that want to overhaul their transfer.... sound OK?

[wacky]

Here is another pic of the larger fragments removed from the transfer, I've kept them - all these floating around in there and all I got was a little whine and some vibration on the transfer gear lever...



Add to the above a further 4 large (main) ball bearings and you have the total of what was removed (+ broken chain). This doesnt include the crapload of metal dust, shards, just the larger identifiable parts like ball bearings, bearing cages, chain links etc.

Have ID'd most of the bearings, all available in Aus. The main one (that the larger bearings are from) is under $20 US and is even available on ebay (being the largest, is this what Toyota want $200 for??)

[wacky]

Can get the new bearings to rebuild it locally for $80. Just gotta pull these ones, and get the new ones pressed on then I can re-assemble and get this baby back on the road.

While its off the road I've been doing little jobs, cleaning the carpets, removing and respraying the bullbar and towbar etc (gloss black). Re-greased the gearbox and transfer shifters, as they were in dire need -they both feel like new now!

[MightyMouse]

Be carefull - it will be too good to drive offroad

[wacky]

Got my bearings today for a little less than was quoted, which was nice. They're all NSK brand, the transfer originally using a mixture of NSK, Koyo and Nachi bearings (Japanese brands).

Still have to get these current ones pulled, and the new ones pressed on - its not really worth me buying a gear&bearing puller just for this one job, so I will likely approach a local gearbox/drivetrain reco place and pay for the labour.

[wacky]

The majority of the transfer case is in at my local gearbox/transfer specialist, Tas Driveline Services, here in Launceston.

There it will be getting the current (f'd) bearings pulled, and new ones I bought put in. I also bought new oil seals, so they're going in at the same time. Will get a phone call sometime between now and Friday to go pick it all up *fingers crossed*.