vitara 4 speed auto (sport shift)

Post by **tanshi** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:42 pm

Ok i know a couple of guys use the 4 speed aw4 box here. What i would like to know is.

1. how do you go with the auto off-road seeing as it isnt really gear selectable i.e always starts in 1st low. If you have low range crawler gears does this cause any issues when you would normally select to start off in a higher gear in a manual.

2. I have heard there are some people who are using a simple switching setup to change gears in these things using power to the solinoids.

What i would like to bring up is the possibility of setting up a sportshift style config. Where it drives normal on road like anormal auto. Flick a switch on the dash and beable to use the shifter to "select gears"

Post by **MightyMouse** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:35 pm

The A44DE ( called an AW4 in Suzuki circles ) is very easy to control via simple switching. However you dont totoally eliminate the mechanical shifter. Shift intensity is controlled by a cable linkage to the throttle.

Drive lets you get all 4 ratios
2 lets you get 2nd & 3rd
1 lets you get 1st and 2nd

There are commercial units on the market that break into the loom between the original electronics and allow manual control of the shift. if you want to go down the "buy it" path

Its really DEAD EASY if you have some fundamental electrical knowledge the solenoid energisation pattery is in the service manual.

I started with "dumb switching" just to get moving whilst I was building a transmission controller - the more I drove it with the switches the more i realised that I really liked it that way - simple, reliable and VERY effective.

I started with a rotary switch - its only failing was sometimes i'd unintentionally move two gears instead of one ( not the end of the world with an auto ) and moved to a mechanically interlocked 4 way push betton set.

Couple of points to consider however.....

Ensure you interlock the solenoids with the transmision selector switch system to ensure you only get the "legal" gear combinations and unless you have transfer gears I'd avoid overdive in low range.

Ive never had issues with overdive in low range but the extra stess of an ungeared case MIGHT be a concern.

You can completely ignore the converter lockup system for all but road driving.

I've also locked the shift modulator onto "full throttle" ( ie cable fully out ) as that's the easiest on the transmission clutches in the long run - even if its a bit more sudden than stock.

As long as you dont connect your manual system into the existing system in such a way as to backfeed then you cant do any transmission damage.

Post by **tanshi** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:41 pm

Can you safely retain the Standard TCU setup and "switch" to manual easily?

Post by **MightyMouse** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:07 pm

Yes - just disconnect the ecu from the three solenoids and do your thing.

Unlike later autos the solenoids are not proportional - they are just on or off - so simply applying 12V to them in the correct pattern does the job.

Post by **tanshi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:12 am

Any chance that some one can give me a measurement lengthwise from the bellhousing face to the rear output shaft on the transfer of one of these aw4's??

Post by **Gutless** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:22 am

will have it for you in 30 mins

Post by **tanshi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:34 am

thanks pete, pushy i know but keen to get my money spent hehe

Post by **Gutless** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:52 am

tanshi wrote:thanks pete, pushy i know but keen to get my money spent hehe

and i'm keen to take it

Would you need any wiring etc? Or are you planning to control it manually without the use of ECU?

Post by **tanshi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:04 am

yeah i'll need as much of the wiring as i can get. I'm gonna set it up dual mode so i can manual shift but dont have to.

Post by **Gutless** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:43 pm

hey mate, its 660 long from the front face of the bellhousing to the face where the transfer case bolts to the gearbox. The end of the shaft would then be another 20mm longer so that its sits into the transfer case.

I can split the transfer off for a better measurement if you need it.

Post by **tanshi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:47 pm

How far to the very back of the transfer output? i was thinking duals

Post by **Gutless** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:31 pm

lol

1000mm overall

Post by **tanshi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:38 pm

oh ok so i might not get duals

will have a discussion with the old man and let you know but im 98% that we will take it off your hands

Post by **Gutless** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:44 pm

Yeah the vit housing is heaps bigger than the BB one, and the vit transfer is quite big also. You lose 110 mm to the extension housingbetween the two

Cheers
Peter

Post by **Rotazuk** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:43 pm

Often looked at that extra 4" in between the g/box and t/case in the vitara and thought itwould make good space for a dual t/case if you split off the 4wd part of the vitara etc etc . Just never get enough hours in the day :(

hopefully be installing a j18 with a vitara 4sp auto into a 413 , hope I can get it to all work , hence my interest in this thread , ie contorlling the auto .

Cheers
Chris

Post by **Highway-Star** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:25 am

Gutless wrote:lol 1000mm overall

Bugger!!!
Same as the damn Jeep then!

Tanshi, I really hoped you get the whole thing in the existing space... oh well, will see.

Post by **tanshi** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:33 am

we are trying to figure out if we can chop it down successfully

Post by **Gutless** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:50 pm

How much room do you need to save?

Post by **tanshi** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:55 pm

i have about 900ish to get it plus a jackshaft in

Post by **Gutless** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:40 pm

sorry you have 900 for the gearbox and transfer AND jackshaft?

Post by **Highway-Star** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:09 pm

Gutless wrote:sorry you have 900 for the gearbox and transfer AND jackshaft?

His father says that right.

Post by **Gutless** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:29 pm

I doubt you will find any auto and transfer that is that short.

What if you hard mount the 2nd transfer to the vitara one with some sort of cradle, eliminating the need for a jackshaft? Ofcoarse you are going to have to remove the front output shaft from the vit case to allow the front shaft to get to the diff past the vitara case.

Post by **Highway-Star** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:46 pm

Gutless wrote:What if you hard mount the 2nd transfer to the vitara one with some sort of cradle, eliminating the need for a jackshaft? Ofcoarse you are going to have to remove the front output shaft from the vit case to allow the front shaft to get to the diff past the vitara case.

Tanshi's Father and I just spent the last 2 hours discussing this (among a couple of other things...). Lots of assumptions though, need to see the actual gearbox/transfer assembly though. The 1m assembly is a tad too long still as it stands, but maybe this could be worked around, depending how the rear of the Vitara transfer can be modified.
Ultimately Tanshi could move his transfer back, but It would ruin its awesome position

Post by **Gutless** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:54 pm

you guys want to come and have a look at the auto some time this week? That way you could get the measurements you need. I hope to get it out on saturday anyway.

Cheers
Peter

Post by **joeblow** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:13 pm

Highway-Star wrote:
Gutless wrote:What if you hard mount the 2nd transfer to the vitara one with some sort of cradle, eliminating the need for a jackshaft? Ofcoarse you are going to have to remove the front output shaft from the vit case to allow the front shaft to get to the diff past the vitara case.

Tanshi's Father and I just spent the last 2 hours discussing this (among a couple of other things...). Lots of assumptions though, need to see the actual gearbox/transfer assembly though. The 1m assembly is a tad too long still as it stands, but maybe this could be worked around, depending how the rear of the Vitara transfer can be modified.
Ultimately Tanshi could move his transfer back, but It would ruin its awesome position

to run just the aw4 you don't need to move the existing t/case back.

Post by **Gutless** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:16 pm

joeblow wrote:
Highway-Star wrote:
Gutless wrote:What if you hard mount the 2nd transfer to the vitara one with some sort of cradle, eliminating the need for a jackshaft? Ofcoarse you are going to have to remove the front output shaft from the vit case to allow the front shaft to get to the diff past the vitara case.

Tanshi's Father and I just spent the last 2 hours discussing this (among a couple of other things...). Lots of assumptions though, need to see the actual gearbox/transfer assembly though. The 1m assembly is a tad too long still as it stands, but maybe this could be worked around, depending how the rear of the Vitara transfer can be modified.
Ultimately Tanshi could move his transfer back, but It would ruin its awesome position
to run just the aw4 you don't need to move the existing t/case back.

Hey Joe,

They want to try and squeeze the auto and transfer infront of a sierra transfer. Twin cases.

Post by **joeblow** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:06 am

in that case even with the short vit cases i make you still have to move the t/case back 100mm, which isn't much really.

Post by **Highway-Star** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:13 am

joeblow wrote:in that case even with the short vit cases i make you still have to move the t/case back 100mm, which isn't much really.

Is this for a standard Sierra Joe? This isn't going into one. Its a full on hybrid LJ81. The distance from the 1600 bellhousing to Sierra transfer input flange is 900mm ATM. I might go get a photo, and put it up, I'm sure Tanshi wont mind, might make further explanations easier.

Post by **tanshi** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:35 am

i wont mind

to explain a little further. we have the transfer in where we would ideally like it to be. Exactly half way between the two diffs. we have tailshafts that will cover this distance exactly therfore not needing custom ones made and then if one were to die on the trail i can just swap the other one in. ie front into the rear to get me home. i would like to run duals but if i cant i may just run the gearbox and buy lower gears for the transfer. Do you make adapters for the back of the gearbox still joe?

Post by **Highway-Star** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:25 am

Pictures of the space for the gearbox as it sits, currently has Jimny 4spd Auto and jackshaft in place.

Attempt at measurement, its actually not quite 900mm from what I just measured, unless the transfer has been moved (not bolted down yet).

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vitara 4 speed auto (sport shift)

vitara 4 speed auto (sport shift)

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