Welding a hilux diff (Flame suit on)

Post by **SIMMO84** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:06 pm

OK first off there is no money for anysort of diff lock other than welded.
I have a spare nearly worn out diff (gears mainly) If I was to weld it Which end would I put it into?
Not really worried about locking and unlocking hubs or on road characteristics. Mainly worried about axle lifespan (but do have spare axles front and rear)
Vehicle has standard axles and 33" cooper S/T, 86 dualcab.
So what are peoples opinions apert from get an airlocker.

Post by **DR Frankenstine** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:10 pm

Rear but be prepared to shell out for new tyres. or front and be prepared to shell out for new tyres and cv's

Post by **yamaha__308** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:48 pm

Definately weld the rear before the front. You'll be breaking birfs left and right and have horrible steering with a welded front.

Rear axles aren't as susceptible to breaking either.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:52 pm

Thanks for the decent replies. One thing I didnt mention is that this is daily driven. Will the rear axles handle A heap of on road driving?

Post by **Rory** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:00 pm

few years back i ran a welded rear in my hilux, it was fine it did plenty of onroad...plenty of skids to.i actully pulled the whole lot down n welded a plate to join it all together, a 12mm plate on both sides

Post by **80gus** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:12 pm

I,ve welded a couple of diff's in my time only for burnout, comp cars NOT STREET, if you do it right, there fairly strong and hilux axles are fairly strong. When welding diff,s don't weld the spider gaers alome add a plate that touches each side of all 4 spider gears (2 pinion) Welding 4 pinion's is a little difficult just no room. And dont weld the spiders to the carrier allow them to float a bit. Driving wise very dangerous in the wet you'll found yourself steering and still getting pushed forward, i personally wouldn't do it on a day to day driver. YOU will end up flogging the spider pinnion shaft out or snapping the gears you weld TOO much stress, and not to mention tyre wear.

Post by **dat383** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:16 pm

I welded my hilux rear a few years ago,
i used an open centre,stripped the gears and bearings and welded everything
to everything.this was a 200amp mig,fully cranked,welding for 30 minutes.
it took about 2 hours to cool.
I ran it in the rear of my 83 hilux t/d for about three years with 33 inch tyres
driving every day and rock crawling most weekends.

never broke an axle.

tyre wear was very minor compared to the wear a weekend of mud running
does.

its is a good cheap mod for early hilux and will make a difference offroad.

in my opinion don't weld an lsd centre,use an open centre.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:17 pm

Welded A plate in today like yous suggested, although I did weld the gears to the center as well, Ill see how it goes. Im not worried about destroying the diff as it is stuffed already. Thanks for the replies.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:19 pm

dat383 wrote:I welded my hilux rear a few years ago,
i used an open centre,stripped the gears and bearings and welded everything
to everything.this was a 200amp mig,fully cranked,welding for 30 minutes.
it took about 2 hours to cool.
I ran it in the rear of my 83 hilux t/d for about three years with 33 inch tyres
driving every day and rock crawling most weekends.

never broke an axle.

tyre wear was very minor compared to the wear a weekend of mud running
does.

its is a good cheap mod for early hilux and will make a difference offroad.

in my opinion don't weld an lsd centre,use an open centre.

Yeah used an old open center. I already have 2 shimmed LSDs in the vehicle, its time for the next step.

Post by **dano80** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:20 pm

I reckon thats the way to do it, just weld it up, as much snot in there as possible, I've welded a heap of Zooks like this....never had an issue, but their pretty light, might be different in a heavier rig.

Cheers, Dano.

Post by **dow50r** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:01 pm

Weld the gears together in the 4 places they meet from eachother, use high carbon rods or it will break...take it to a fab shop and pay the $20 to weld it...if you dont have the rods....put it in the front, when hubs are unlocked, no change, when they are locked, no steering, put it in the back and the first or second u turn you will have a broken axle

Post by **SIMMO84** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:20 pm

dow50r wrote:Weld the gears together in the 4 places they meet from eachother, use high carbon rods or it will break...take it to a fab shop and pay the $20 to weld it...if you dont have the rods....put it in the front, when hubs are unlocked, no change, when they are locked, no steering, put it in the back and the first or second u turn you will have a broken axle

Welded it myself, High carbon rods. Welded it where the gears meet each other, Where the gears meet the hemisphere, where the 10mm plate meets all the gears, and then again on the other side

. Ive had welded diffs before all in the rear diff and the only one that has failed snapped the pinion, I dont think that was a result of the welding tho. Im a mechanic so repairs dont worry me, Im going to put it in the rear and see how it goes. Should be in on the weekend so Ill post up howmany turns I get before it snaps an axle, should be good research

.

Post by **brad 93hilux** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:03 pm

SIMMO84 wrote:
dow50r wrote:Weld the gears together in the 4 places they meet from eachother, use high carbon rods or it will break...take it to a fab shop and pay the $20 to weld it...if you dont have the rods....put it in the front, when hubs are unlocked, no change, when they are locked, no steering, put it in the back and the first or second u turn you will have a broken axle
Welded it myself, High carbon rods. Welded it where the gears meet each other, Where the gears meet the hemisphere, where the 10mm plate meets all the gears, and then again on the other side . Ive had welded diffs before all in the rear diff and the only one that has failed snapped the pinion, I dont think that was a result of the welding tho. Im a mechanic so repairs dont worry me, Im going to put it in the rear and see how it goes. Should be in on the weekend so Ill post up howmany turns I get before it snaps an axle, should be good research .

thats the way take one for the team.... LOL

Post by **SIMMO84** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:47 pm

Snapping an axle in 2 or 3 turns sounded a bit like a challenge so Ive decide to sacrifice this rear end. Basically Ive built The diff as roughly as I could( 28 mins is all it took) . I didnt use ANY measurement equipment at all, no tourque wrenches, no dial guages, no spring guages, didnt even check any bolts all was done with a snap-on rattle gun, just all by feel. I have built plenty of diffs in the past and have a good idea of what to expect tho. So to all the naysayers give me an idea of how I should test this rear end and how long you think it wil last.
Heres a pic of the weld job

Post by **SIMMO84** » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:59 pm

Diffs in, is quiet and hasnt snapped yet. did a fair bit of testing on bitumen and concrete holding it on full lock and doing a few slow hoops.

Post by **4RUNNER_01** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:06 am

I'd bet your crown or pinion break before that weld or your axles ive done a few similar but not in hilux's and sold the cars before i ever seen a weld break in a diff. but that plate is the key id normally put 2 plates on either side though i think that's overkill.

Post by **optima** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:49 pm

mini spool should be able to pick one up for a hundred bucks an the crown wheel will break before the axle

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:53 am

Just curious, why do yous think the crownwheel bill break. There shouldnt be any more loaad on the crownwheel and pinion or do yous think now the shockloading will load up the diff enough to break them. Im interested to hear your replies as I didnt think of that at all.

Post by **4RUNNER_01** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:52 am

Well in my experience they just seem weak i have 4.5's in my diff supposed to be a stronger gear but i have taken teeth of 2 crown wheels could be other issues but it just seems to be the first thing to go i have an auto locker in the rear though.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:12 am

Fair enough, not sure what ratio I have but Im guessing it would be close to that. Am going for an easy run today but might find somewhere to test it out.

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:44 pm

Haha yous were all wrong, the engine shit self first. Haha but the diff copped a floggin and i couldnt be happier with it.

Post by **80gus** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:53 pm

what blew on the motor?

Post by **SIMMO84** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:24 pm

Dont know yet, nothing major. I think its sucking air from somewhere. Cleaned out the mozzies from captons with the smoke. Have a look on 4wd action site for a couple of pics, haha my very own tow truck

Post by **mellows40** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:59 pm

G'day guys...
Whats this about welding the diff to lock it up all about... I've got a 40 series and want some kind of diff lock... now Ive never even opened up a diff before... let alone put one together... How much knowledge would be suggested before attempting such a mod?.... would going to the wreckers and getting a old diff and stripping it down, then putting it back together give me some knowledge of it, would that help?. Or should I stick to what I do know... welding.... and stay away from it?

Post by **brad 93hilux** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:05 am

Mate do a search and you will find heaps of stuff, a manual like gregories or haines for your make/model will tell you everything you need to know.

But don't go welding up your diff, not something you want to do, just save up and buy a diff lock and do it properly...

In the centre of the diff there is 4 sun gears which allow differential acton (see the pic with the welded plate- you can juat make out the gears top/bottom and left/right) a difflock will either be a auto lokker which is;

eg-a lockrite locked all the time and when not under load has little springs that unlock it allowing one wheel to turn faster then the other but when you accellerate it locks (under load) and will not unlock till there is no more load on the centre (back off)
and a air lokker is a air operated diff lock that is manually turned off/on and when not in use (turned off) operates with 4 small sun gears in the centre of the airlokker to allow the same differential action as a stock centre.

Read all the above posts about people saying the problems of welding the centre....

Each to their own but no chance i would do it, not when you can buy a lockrite for between 450-600....
or a 2nd hand airlokker for 600-800 (like both of mine are

)

Up to you.
Brad

Post by **mellows40** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:43 am

cheers brad..... I wasn't going to atempt it .. just thinkin... but now I'm convinced..... I dont know enough about it... so I'll buy a conventional locker... You said you picked up second hand air lockers... where from?

Post by **brad 93hilux** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:50 am

mellows40 wrote:cheers brad..... I wasn't going to atempt it .. just thinkin... but now I'm convinced..... I dont know enough about it... so I'll buy a conventional locker... You said you picked up second hand air lockers... where from?

Both came off outers, one i paid 900 for a airlokker in a rebuilt centre less then 2 years old (yukon gears and solid spacer installed) and it came with wiring harness and large compressor

and the 2nd one off here paid 600 just for the v6 airlokker centre which is now in my highpinion front diff...

They come up from time to time, just gotta be patient and when one does have the cash ready.

Brad

Post by **mellows40** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:34 pm

Thanks Brad... I'll keep my eyes pealed...

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Welding a hilux diff (Flame suit on)

Welding a hilux diff (Flame suit on)

welded

Who is online