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stronger landcruiser pinions
Moderators: toaddog, Elmo, DUDELUX
stronger landcruiser pinions
what's available for the landcruiser 9 inch diffs in regards to stronger pinions? sick of damaging them. did a few on stock drivetrain and 33's.
snapped one a beuty first trip out on 36's with the falcon 6 conversion this weekend. i want to be able to set and forget...
snapped one a beuty first trip out on 36's with the falcon 6 conversion this weekend. i want to be able to set and forget...
Spit my last breath
its the rear... and i'm not looking at throwing new diffs under there.duck wrote:im looking at putting a GQ front end in mine, CVs are easyer to change than diffs
that's exactly where it's failing.hulsty wrote:are you twisting and snapping the pinion just behind the tail shaft flange?
Spit my last breath
how is this happening? are the uni's binding? I am yet to see a pinion snap from sheer power, generally something else fails first...bad_religion_au wrote:are you twisting and snapping the pinion just behind the tail shaft flange?
that's exactly where it's failing.
changing to nissan is no advantage, they run the size same pinion bearings, but the material hardness is generally a little higher which usually results in more pinion failures. The only downside in cruiser rears is the wall thickness of the small bearing end of the housing, and this often become loose. IMO find out the real reason that is causing them to fail first!
last resort upgrade to toyota dyna/tundra 10.5" rear
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In there area that is breaking is there a diameter difference between 4.11 diffs and 4.1 diffs ? Or are they all the same aside from the ratio difference.
I *think* that the later cruiser ie 100 series 78/79 series have a larger diameter in the area that is breaking than the earlier diffs. Might be possible to swap out the side gears to work with your axels.
I *think* that the later cruiser ie 100 series 78/79 series have a larger diameter in the area that is breaking than the earlier diffs. Might be possible to swap out the side gears to work with your axels.
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I have been doing the same thing in my BJ42 but in the front diff. I have done three this year, all exactly the same. No twist, a straight snap just after the flange of the driveshaft.
After this last snap (a week ago), I rang superior and after he spoke to some other people (which actually might have been 1madengineer) it was suggested that because the brackets on the springs are too high (too allow the leaves to separate for more flex) it is allowing the diff to twist (axle wrap) causing too much angle in the driveshaft, snapping the pinion. It is a good theory as each snap has been when there was a high impact on the front diff, where the front tyres hit an obstacle, gripping but not going anywhere.
This might not help the case for the rear diff however it's something to consider. Mick also reckoned there was aftermarket gears that could be freeze treated to make them stronger. This included the pinion. He is yet to send me a price.
I am still working out my solution, hope this helps...
After this last snap (a week ago), I rang superior and after he spoke to some other people (which actually might have been 1madengineer) it was suggested that because the brackets on the springs are too high (too allow the leaves to separate for more flex) it is allowing the diff to twist (axle wrap) causing too much angle in the driveshaft, snapping the pinion. It is a good theory as each snap has been when there was a high impact on the front diff, where the front tyres hit an obstacle, gripping but not going anywhere.
This might not help the case for the rear diff however it's something to consider. Mick also reckoned there was aftermarket gears that could be freeze treated to make them stronger. This included the pinion. He is yet to send me a price.
I am still working out my solution, hope this helps...
That stands to reason, in my rear I totalled two pairs of springs due to axel wrap. I was surprised I didnt damage a pinion. I have now moved upto quality springs, with the appropriate clamps and have no more issues regarding axel wrap like I was.
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the last one was probably was uni's binding due to spring wrap, as i was testing the soft springs on a big climb, but the other ones i'm not convinced were. i'm definately going an anti-wrap bar after the weekend, but having cracked and busted them before i had enough traction/tire/flex/power to have any axle wrap, i'd still like something stronger if available (like i said, do it right, do it once!).1MadEngineer wrote:how is this happening? are the uni's binding? I am yet to see a pinion snap from sheer power, generally something else fails first...bad_religion_au wrote:are you twisting and snapping the pinion just behind the tail shaft flange?
that's exactly where it's failing.
changing to nissan is no advantage, they run the size same pinion bearings, but the material hardness is generally a little higher which usually results in more pinion failures. The only downside in cruiser rears is the wall thickness of the small bearing end of the housing, and this often become loose. IMO find out the real reason that is causing them to fail first!
last resort upgrade to toyota dyna/tundra 10.5" rear
i remember reading about cryo'd pinions ages ago on a yank site, but can't remember if that was for the hilux's or cruisers.
Spit my last breath
Resident Terrorist
you can get the yota DC's to pretty much the same angles as regular uni's with a bit of clever material removal.Z()LTAN wrote:Be careful, a DC joint has less working angle than a single unis.
I tried to fit a 60s DC joint on the front of my cruiser to stop high speed vibes. But it wouldn't work at the angles that i wanted.
did you cut and turn the axles when you sprung it over? there shouldn't be too much of a driveshaft angle if you did.
Spit my last breath
i'm using a 60 series DC in the rear, which is the one i broke.RAY185 wrote:I haven't done a front pinion yet and my spring clamps are opened up with 2 leaves removed out of each of the front packs so they are pretty soft. I do use a cut down 60 series double cardin front shaft though...
Spit my last breath
Resident Terrorist
Then I would guess you are on the right track building a anti-wrap bar. Although in saying that, I don't know how soft your suspension is setup in the back.bad_religion_au wrote:i'm using a 60 series DC in the rear, which is the one i broke.RAY185 wrote:I haven't done a front pinion yet and my spring clamps are opened up with 2 leaves removed out of each of the front packs so they are pretty soft. I do use a cut down 60 series double cardin front shaft though...
Rick- Not sure what models they are in. Mine came out of an 84 FJ60 I wrecked, but I had another 84 FJ60 in the other day which had a normal front shaft. Last time I checked, Ford, Holden & 4x4 Wrecking at Brendale had a couple. 3205 4377
Could pinion support be an issue? I've noticed the cast differential centre carriers change as the years go on. My newer carriers have extra casting that extends upto the pinion further than the earlier carriers.
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So what is the best solution?RUFF wrote:
Axle wrap and uni bind is the killer of Toyota pinions. Excessive Traction has little to do with it.
No consensis yet on DC yet, but might help.
Freeze treated gears??? Surely this must help.
Adjusting the springs, i.e. tighter clamps on leaves???
Anti axle wrap bar???
Is it some or all of these to stop the problem? Or do we just have to drive a little more pedestrian. I bloody hope not...
I ran a stock 80 series rear centre in my buggy.Ricko wrote:So what is the best solution?RUFF wrote:
Axle wrap and uni bind is the killer of Toyota pinions. Excessive Traction has little to do with it.
No consensis yet on DC yet, but might help.
Freeze treated gears??? Surely this must help.
Adjusting the springs, i.e. tighter clamps on leaves???
Anti axle wrap bar???
Is it some or all of these to stop the problem? Or do we just have to drive a little more pedestrian. I bloody hope not...
The above pic was taken when Dave Camp drove it at the 2006 World Finals in Las Vegas. Most people will prob attest that i drove it harder than Dave when i was still driving it. The 80 series centre is stronger in other areas but the pinion failure point is exactly the same. Right behind the flange. I snapped one pinion in 2 years of competition abuse. This was caused due to the uni binding and happened within the first couple of comps. Dave then drove the car for 18 months before going to Dana 60 diffs and never broke another centre. The only reason for the upgrade was for larger and stronger axles and more steering lock.
Fix the axle wrap and you should fix the Uni Bind. This in turn should fix your problem.
I dont think you need to treat the gears or fit a DC shaft.
I have seen the course spline pinions take a lot of abuse in competition use. As long as the splines have no wear and the pinion is tight they rarely fail. But the fine spline pinions are the pick if your replacing centres.bad_religion_au wrote:axle wrap bar.
from my research, later pinions are finespline, supposed to be tougher.
Longfield offers a heat treating/cryo service.
even when i take care of the axle wrap, i still want beef, so i'll end up going this route.
well i gotta replace it anyway i'm out of spares.RUFF wrote:I have seen the course spline pinions take a lot of abuse in competition use. As long as the splines have no wear and the pinion is tight they rarely fail. But the fine spline pinions are the pick if your replacing centres.bad_religion_au wrote:axle wrap bar.
from my research, later pinions are finespline, supposed to be tougher.
Longfield offers a heat treating/cryo service.
even when i take care of the axle wrap, i still want beef, so i'll end up going this route.
going to take the opportunity to regear to 4.88, ordering them from the states, so won't cost me any more for shipping to get them cryo'd. i thought it'd be worth the extra $40 to get at least the rear cryo'd, but i've watched you drive RUFF, so the fine spline pinion set up right should be enough.
Spit my last breath
Well that would suit me. I already have a couple more centres available. It will cost a bomb for the hardened gears, not to mention cutting down another shaft.RUFF wrote:Ricko wrote:RUFF wrote:
Fix the axle wrap and you should fix the Uni Bind. This in turn should fix your problem.
I dont think you need to treat the gears or fit a DC shaft.
I have already had a look at the superior website and they do one for the 40# at $450. Since I am not real flash at making/designing this sort of gear, it will be the go for me I think. Plus it was superior who initially led me down the axle wrap path, service should equal sales.
Sorry bad_religion_au for semi-jacking your post, but since i had exactly the same issue and am trying to sort it right now also, I really had no choice.
I'm still open to more ideas about this, but at this stage I am going for the wrap bar, and standard gears.
Cheers, Rick.
Yes i have cut and turned.bad_religion_au wrote:you can get the yota DC's to pretty much the same angles as regular uni's with a bit of clever material removal.Z()LTAN wrote:Be careful, a DC joint has less working angle than a single unis.
I tried to fit a 60s DC joint on the front of my cruiser to stop high speed vibes. But it wouldn't work at the angles that i wanted.
did you cut and turn the axles when you sprung it over? there shouldn't be too much of a driveshaft angle if you did.
These are old pix and the ride height has come down somewhat since then.
Its my Trans end unis thats the problem... its almost binding at ride height... remember the 13" lift thread
Trans end
Diff end
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Was it like this vid clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQtc-QS0 ... re=related
if you read some of the comments a bloke says about a axel wrap bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQtc-QS0 ... re=related
if you read some of the comments a bloke says about a axel wrap bar
The hilux dc joints get heaps more angle then the standard 75's uni's not shore if its early or late model ones are better but one is. I had the same problem as Z()LTAN with my FJ73 and fixed it with that and i have heaps of front axle movement its also running a wrap bar.
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lux ifs dc = ~25-30degHANCOCK wrote:The hilux dc joints get heaps more angle then the standard 75's uni's not shore if its early or late model ones are better but one is. I had the same problem as Z()LTAN with my FJ73 and fixed it with that and i have heaps of front axle movement its also running a wrap bar.
lux solid ax dc = ~35-37deg
some 60 series rear long ear = 45deg+
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well you need something in there, you can't run a non DC/CV shaft with the uni's at THAT much of a different angle.Z()LTAN wrote:Yes i have cut and turned.bad_religion_au wrote:you can get the yota DC's to pretty much the same angles as regular uni's with a bit of clever material removal.Z()LTAN wrote:Be careful, a DC joint has less working angle than a single unis.
I tried to fit a 60s DC joint on the front of my cruiser to stop high speed vibes. But it wouldn't work at the angles that i wanted.
did you cut and turn the axles when you sprung it over? there shouldn't be too much of a driveshaft angle if you did.
These are old pix and the ride height has come down somewhat since then.
Its my Trans end unis thats the problem... its almost binding at ride height... remember the 13" lift thread
Spit my last breath
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