spray paint guns

[uninformed]

hey all,

I'm looking for advice on brand and type of spray paint gun to buy. I have a 13cfm single phase tradies compressor. Regular air hoses. The gun is for personal useage, painting wheels, car parts funiture etc etc.

I would like to be able to spray acrylic, enamel and 2 pac.

what are the pros and cons of the following:

HVLP or conventional
paint pot on top or underneath

budget will be upto $300

cheers,
Serg

[want33s]

I'd recommend an underhead Iwata gun.
You will need a few different needles and caps if you want to spray acrylic, 2 pack and enamels.

[Mick.]

I recommend a conventional gravity fed spray gun with about a 1.4mm set up. This will spray acrylic, 2 pack and enamel fine. For primers you will need between 1.8 and a 2mm set up. $300 will get you a couple of cheap guns but the starting price for Devilbiss, Iwatas etc are about $500 and Satas about $800. Theses guns give you the option of different set ups and replacement parts but the cheaper guns are throw aways.

HVLP which sands for (high volume low pressure) actually needs a higher air output then conventional spray guns to get an even finish. So a 13 CFM or even a 17CFM stuggle to pump enough air to get one to work properly. There also only really designed for high solids and not really needed for medium solids which is what most people would be using in the backyard. You need to spray at about 2 bar to get an even finish but with a conventional gun you can spray at 1.7 or 1.8 bar and still get a good finish and with far less overspray.

The suction feed guns have more parts and seals to stuff up and like other cheap guns are throw aways and not designed for 2 packs. There also harder to clean, you cant use all the paint in the gun, it usually starts to spit when it's still got about 25% of the paint in it, harder to fill up and this is a big problem when doing resprays. I cant think of any benifits for these guns to be honest.

I hope this helps.

Cheers Mick.

[jtraf]

for a general all rounder try the Star 770.....

I have one and use it for pretty much everything.....

[uninformed]

thanks guys,

does anyone know where i can get a Devilbiss or a Iwatas on th GC?

are the Star guns any good? can the needles been changed etc?

cheers,
Serg

[Pep]

Star Guns aren't bad.

They're usually a dead copy of an Iwata, at least that was the case with the old Iwata W77. All parts were interchangeable.
Which is still going strong today

In a past life , (in furniture & other timber products like awards) i used the Star77's for staining, undercoating and sealing
and either the Iwata W77 and the 707 for top coating.

Pep

[uninformed]

well i picked up a Star S-106 conventional gravity fed spray gun. It came with a 1.7mm needle/tip. I asked the guys at Trade Tools and they said needles/tips were interchangable.

I sprayed some hammer tone enamel with it, worked ok but i felt it need a bigger needle/tip. I went in and picked up the needle, Air cap and fluid nozzle........but when i tried to install the 3mm needle it wouldn't pass through the gun, mid point there is a little plastic olive that i think must seal around the needle and this is tightend with a needle valve packing seat, the needle wound't pass through that either, more importantly it wouldnt pass through the machined hole in the main body of the gun.....

i asked them and they didnt know why???? but hooked me up with the 3mm gun. They import these direct so dont have any tech support.

they were under the impression you just needed the needle, Cap and nozzle to change, but this is not the case.

Any clues guys?

[JohnJohn]

Take it back and do what Mick suggested.

1.4 tip. should be fine for most spraying.
Use the 1.7 for primers etc.

Now if you think you need a bigger nozzle try a little more air pressure and or add + 5% more thinners to the paint and soon you will find it spraying great!

[uninformed]

unlike most enamels, hammer tone doesnt like to be thinned much at all, it effects the finish. I found this out.

The question I was getting at is anyone here using the Star S-106 and interchanging needles/tip sizes?

cheers,
Serg

[80lsy gq]

i have a few of the S 106 guns but i only use 1.4mm nozzles for everything including Hammertone, primers, enamels and acrylics..

what hammertone are you using..i use the Galmet stuff on trailers etc and you can thin it up to 20% with the Galmet thinners and it sprays perfectly...i generally thin it to around 10% with the 1.4 nozzle..it is fine to thin as long as you have the correct size nozzle to match your thinning percentage

3mm nozzle would be like a garden hose spraying..

cant see why it wouldnt fit through the gun but you would need to change the needle valve packing and the seat as well..the 106 is able to take up to a 3.5mm nozzle i think

dave

[uninformed]

Thanks 80lsy gq,

like i said the 3mm needle would not pass through the valve packing seat or the hole( this is the hole that the little plastic valve packing comes up against) that is machined in the gun itself.

I just felt the paint wasnt going on thick enough using the 1.7mm (even played around with the settings) and when it dried it was just like metalic paint, ho hammer effect.

the paint is just whiteknight from Bunnings and i used enamel thinners.

The problem with changing the needles is definitly there, but the problem with the paint would be all me.......first time i have sprayed anything.......

You are correct in saying the s-106 is capable of taking upto a 3.5mm, as i read this in the pamflet that came with the gun, but on the box it only stated upto 2.8mm

I wonder if there are 2 diffferent bodies, as there is no way the 3 or the 3.5mm would go in the first gun i had.....and i had no way of checking any other size under 3mm but over 1.7.

using the 3mm needle i got the hammer effect.....

so if i get the 1.7mm stuff for my gun, would this be ok for primmers and enamels?

cheers,
Serg

[Mick.]

I'm guessing your packing glad is to tight which is why your needles not going through. When setting up a gun properly you need to loosen the glad off a touch to fit bigger needles then once fitted to tighten it up but only firm not tight. If that doesn't work then you need the next size up packing gland too.

3mm set up's are for spray polyesters not primers or hammer tones.

For what your doing a 1.4 and 1.8mm set up is all you need.

Cheers Mick.

[uninformed]

First off, thanks for all the painting and needle/tip size advice, it is very helpful.

I understand that since I said that I havent painted before that would lead to thinking I dont know whats going on with the gun. Whilst it is the first time I have sprayed anything, its far from the first time I have pulled something apart and had an understanding of how it works.

Like I have said, again, it is not just the needle valve packing (or packing glad) and not just the needle valve packing seat that the needle wont pass through.

THE NEEDLE WILL NOT PASS THROUGH THE HOLE THAT IS MACHINED IN THE MAIN BODY OF THE GUN.

now the gun is made from cast alloy that has been machined. The needle valve packing seats against this then the needle valve packing seat screws into the body of the gun seating againts the needle valve packing and compresses it around the needle to give a tight fit but still allow the needle to slide back and forward without the leaking of air and or paint.

So I will do some more research as the seller wasnt able to help as he thought it was just a matter of changing in the appropriate size needle, air cap and fluid nozzle, but I will find out

cheers,
Serg

[Mick.]

Why bother when you don't need a 3mm set up anyway? I'm an automotive painter and in 15 years of spraying i've never needed a 3mm set up for anything. Even stone guard guns don't use a 3mm setup.

If the needle its self wont fit in the gun then they have sold you the wrong needle for your gun. This is one of the reasons I would stay away from cheap guns as the after sales service is crap and there build quality can vary.

Cheers Mick.

[uninformed]

thanks Mick,

The reason I ask is I was under the impretion that all the needles where interchangable. As stated I have already taken the gun back and changed it once, and will fill like a dick for changing it again. I was trying to find out if anyone had this gun and was useing a range of tips/needles.

I will speak to the guys and see what they can do, but as i have used this gun it may not be able to be taken back. If not I will price the 1.7 parts to fit. probably same price as a gun lol.

I have found a Devilbiss online for a pretty good price

cheers,
Serg

[Mick.]

thanks Mick,

The reason I ask is I was under the impretion that all the needles where interchangable. As stated I have already taken the gun back and changed it once, and will fill like a dick for changing it again. I was trying to find out if anyone had this gun and was useing a range of tips/needles.

I will speak to the guys and see what they can do, but as i have used this gun it may not be able to be taken back. If not I will price the 1.7 parts to fit. probably same price as a gun lol.

I have found a Devilbiss online for a pretty good price

cheers,
Serg

Most needles are interchangable with the same gun provided it's the same make and model. The problem is these days there are so many different makes and models out there. I've got 3 different Devilbiss's and none of the needles or fluid tips are interchangable because one's a primer gun, ones a conventional spray gun and ones HVLP.

If you can get a 1.7 or 1.8 set up for your Star then get that and use it for primer and buy the Devilbiss for colour and then your set.

Cheers Mick.

[uninformed]

I went back to Trade Tools today and picked up a 1.7mm needle, fluid nozzle, air cap, needle packing and needle packing seat. I fitted all this to the 3.0mm gun and it worked fine.

The shaft dia of the 1.7mm needle is 3.0mm and the machined hole in the 1.7mm model gun, that the shaft passes through would be about 3.2mm

The shaft dia of the 3.0mm needle is 3.5mm and the machined hole in the 3.0mm model gun is about 3.8mm

If I can find out all the different shaft sizes for the different needle sizes that will tell us what sizes fit in the 1.7mm model gun.

Trade Tools have been very helpful and patient with me during this process.

cheers,
Serg

[uninformed]

Most needles are interchangable with the same gun provided it's the same make and model. The problem is these days there are so many different makes and models out there. I've got 3 different Devilbiss's and none of the needles or fluid tips are interchangable because one's a primer gun, ones a conventional spray gun and ones HVLP.

If you can get a 1.7 or 1.8 set up for your Star then get that and use it for primer and buy the Devilbiss for colour and then your set.

Cheers Mick.

Mick, the gun/guns I was having problems with are/were the same brand and model, both Star S-106 which is a conventional gravity fed gun.

I'm thinking what you have advised regarding the 2 gun set up is where I'll head, the Devilbiss comes with 3 needles 1.0, 1.2, and 1.4mm

thanks for the replys guys, if I find more out regarding the Star S-106 I'll post it here

cheers,
Serg