1HD-FT now a full rebuild

[lokka]

Gday Guys im after info on parts for a full top end reco on old mans 1hd-ft its playing up and has a bad miss when cold and seems to be a valve problem the exhaust valves on 3 and 4 dont seem to be closing enough due to a dodgy PCV valve letting oil pass back into the inlet and burn on these 2 valves and cause dramas ..

We will be pulling the head for a reco and relacing anything that looks sus maby even get the turbo recoed or replace it with a new one ..

Is there any mods or tricks that are worth doing while we have it apart we will be putting in an oil catch can to stop the oil geting back into the inlet is there anything else we should do ???

Any info on parts or advice would be greatly appreciated thanks ..

[dumbdunce]

SMS diesel and/or Don Kyatt will have all the parts.

good idea to get the head crack inspected (mag particle or fluoro dye) while it is apart; cheap insurance.

make sure you use the same head gasket as what comes off - there are different thicknesses.

be very careful pulling the rocker gear apart, you cannot side-load the bridge posts, they are prone to snap. do the valve set cold on the bench before the head goes on, it is a billion times easier than doing it with the head on the engine.

take the bonnet off and use a hoist/chain block to lift the head and lower it on, it is too heavy even for two people to lift.

consider oil analysis before you pull it apart to determine whether it is worth only doing up the head or of the whole engine is on the way out; it would be a waste of time and money to put a cracking good head on a weary bottom end, and the bottom end is relatively inexpensive to overhaul, the additional time to r&r the engine is more or less recovered by much, much faster disassembly once the engine is out and on a stand - you can use a butterfly gun/air ratchet for almost everything with much better access to everything, with the added bonus of being able to stand comfortably rather than hunched over the fenders all the time. of course the downside is to remove the engine it's a good idea to remove everything in front of the engine including the radiator support panel - and you need to have a stand to put the engine on.

have funne, they are good motors to work on.

[lokka]

Thanks DD was hoping you would chime in and give me some pointers

As for the oil analysis i dont think its needed the engin has less than 200K and has had a good life old man services it very regular and the way its been going up till now seems good..
Its just that the PCV has sent oil into the inlet we had over looked it and its never been changed so i think the valve may have stuck open and let all the mist in and the inlet heater screen has nicely deposited it into pots 3 and 4..
The result is burnt crud holding the exhaust valves open just enough to make it miss and blow smoke when cold once it warms up the miss isnt as bad and neither is the smoke ..
So it has me pointing at crud on exhaust valves or the seats causing the problems ..
Thanks for the advice on the rocker gear il make sure im super carefull and yep my plan of attack was to off the bonnet but didnt think of using the hoist for the head they must be heavy farkers ..

[dumbdunce]

you could try

1. remove the heater screen. you don't need it.

2. oil catch can (although you shouldn't need one, mine has almost 300,000 and not that much oil in the inlet.

3. mist some injector cleaner through the inlet with the engine at a medium idle (around 1200 - 1500rpm). it will rev up as the stuff runs through and smoke like a 17 year old doing burnouts in his mums commodore the day after he got his P's. and also hopefully break up the alleged junk holding the valves open.

4. drive it a bit harder with the occasional blat to the governor in 2nd/3rd gear to blow any such rubbish out before it has time to coke up.

the main reason for oil in the inlet in these engines is driving them too softly and/or lugging at too low rpm - boost keeps a constant positive seal on he rings nd reduces oil consumption and blowby. keep it between 1200 and 3500rpm, where it sounds and feels happy.

[lokka]

Yep this was my thoughts also tho old man is very skeptical he has tryed the CEM brand decarboiser and it hasent done anything but then again dad dont drive it all that hard either tho i have seen him give it some right foot at times ..
We adjusted the off boost fuel supply by turning the notched wheel under the boost compensator and also moved the position of the diaphram this made lots of difference with it now coming on boost at 1100 RPM insted of 1900 RPM that was about 18 months back and it made a huge difference tho old man rekons it now drinks more no pain no gain i say
Il try the injector cleaner tho my thinking was to use a mist of warm water in the same way its how i use to de coke my old datsun and i also use to give the old rangie a drink every 6 months or so ..
We thought the FTC decarboniser from CEM would have done the trick but it hasent so when it gets here in the next few weeks il try a few things before we attack it and pull the head ..
Thanks muchly for the advice

[dumbdunce]

good luck keep us posted with how you go.

[lokka]

Yep no probs will do also il have to work out how to post pics better get onto learning how to use photo bucket

[dow50r]

Gday
When i pulled mine down, i had carbon under 3 and 4 inlet valves, this is because the heater screen points the oil straight down them....think about doing away with it when you put things back...element is easoily removed.
The oil is coming from somewhere, either turbo or blowby into the turbo from tappet cover. Mine was blowby from a set of broken rings
Andrew

[lokka]

Yep the heater screen will be getting ditched along with the EGR asthis engin is a jap spec one we have found as its in a VX sahara which was imported .
I am also thinking of a leak down test as broken rings were a thought i had tho i need to have it here to check the amount of crank case pressure old man has it up in lismore and is coming home in a few weeks so im getting ready for the worst case senario ..

[dumbdunce]

it's a difficult engine to do a leakdown/compression test on; you need to have a junk injector you can take the guts out of to adapt to your air/gauge, as there are no glow plugs to pull out.

if you do end up taking the head off, any vertical scoring of the bores will give away broken rings.

[dow50r]

[quote="dumbdunce"]

. do the valve set cold on the bench before the head goes on, it is a billion times easier than doing it with the head on the engine.quote]

Aint that the truth

The idea of oil analysis is probably the easiest way to diagnose the problem, and relatively cheap if you know what you put in it last change. my head cost $350 to have serviced, and the injectors 900. New head bolts $120 aftermarket and head gasket was aftermarket but good quality japanese one. The head valves on 4 were leaving marks in the piston crown carbon, so i was very lucky i drove it like a pop till it got real bad....how much oil is being used by the motor and with tappet cover oil cap removed, how much is the motor fuming are the basic questions that need answering.
whatever SMS recommend i would use.
When my motor was bad, removing the ign fuse would allow motor to turn over and over, and there was a distinct cylinder missing compression. This would tell you if it is an injecter or not.
Andrew

[lokka]

Well that kills the leak down theory if its a mission to do ..

With what old man has told me when he starts it cold it shakes and rattles and runs with a miss and pumps out black smoke .
He lets it warm up at idle and it loses the rattle and shake the miss all but goes away and the smoke thins out .
He had to drive it from evens head to lismore towing his van and he said he drove it real easy he said it still had plenty of go but he didnt want to use it because of the miss ..
He is driving it home in a few weeks back here to newy and i have to be on stand by with a tow bar in case it gets any worse on the trip home if so il have to tow it behind the disco ..
Im not sure he should drive it or weather a long run may loosen up the shit thats causing the problem what do you guys think ?

[simkell]

is it only doing it when cold? it may just be glow plugs?

[lokka]

is it only doing it when cold? it may just be glow plugs?

I wish it was that simple as there are no glow plugs

[lokka]

Well the old man got it home ok with a bit of oil use here is the symptoms on first inspection last night while running at normal op temp

At idle distinct miss with engin shudder and miss can be heard at tail pipe i removed the oil cap and got a fair hiss of pressure and smoke with cap off same miss could be heard coming from crank case and smoke/fume coming out .

Gave the engin a rev miss isent as bad but still slightly there and smoke fume dosent increase out the oil fill in the rocker cover ..

Whilst on the run home i spoke to old man and suggested he try run it at higher rev insted of sitting on 2000 RPM he tryed this and found the engin had problems reving past 3000 RPM and lacked the pull that it use to have .

He has told me that the miss on idle is worse when cold and he has said it sounds like its missing on more cyl's then gets better as it comes up to temp ..

Im thinking the problem could be a head gasket with compression gas leaking into an oil port or 2 and once it warms up it expands and gets a bit more seal tho this is only a thought this arvo il be starting it cold for a listen and will be speaking to a mechanic mate to get some more ideas so any suggestions here would be a great help ..

[lokka]

Well after todays findings this could get verry interesting as now im looking for someone in the newcastle area who can do a compression test on the engin ..

Also im after info on having an oil analysis done and who to sent it too ..

With the fume's and pressure coming out the oil cap even when cold seems to me that there is a problem with a piston or rings but it only seems to be from one cylinder ..

Would a blocked injector cause this miss to happen and pressure and fume come out the crank case i dont think it would tho it was one of the maby's i was suggested today over the phone ..

Ive explained to the old man that it is looking like the engin may be up for a full reco and that this would probaly be better and probably cheaper than say a compleet short motor so he is now counting the pennies to see what he can afford to do at the moment tho finding out what is causing the problem is becoming a real problem here in newy so far all roads have lead to a toyota dealer and that wont be an option we will want to use ...

[hdj105]

I think the fact that you can hear the miss through the oil cap means the compression is getting into the sump. I'd guess cracked piston (unusual) or broken ring(s).

[lokka]

I think the fact that you can hear the miss through the oil cap means the compression is getting into the sump. I'd guess cracked piston (unusual) or broken ring(s).

Yep that's what im thinking too its either leaking past broken rings or a hole in the piston or a crack n the head ..

Biggest problem is no one here in newcastle has the gear to do a compression test ..

Id like to hear any advice on getting an oil analysis done also as this may be our only test we can do without transporting the truck to say sydney or buying a new injector and making up the fitting from an old one to do the comp test

[Dzltec]

If you have excessive blow by and can determine which cylinder it is by cracking an injector line, there is no need for a comp test really. It means you have a decision to make and could be opening a can of worms so to speak.

At the minimum it may be a head gasket leak to a oil drain back hole, at the worst a full engine rebuild. Time to make a decision in what you want to do and how much you want to spend before you even put a spanner on it.

Pulling it apart will also tell you why it has happened.


Andy

[hdj105]

Yep, and an oil analysis isn't going to help the diagnosis either.

Bite the bullet and rip the head off.

[lokka]

If you have excessive blow by and can determine which cylinder it is by cracking an injector line, there is no need for a comp test really. It means you have a decision to make and could be opening a can of worms so to speak.

At the minimum it may be a head gasket leak to a oil drain back hole, at the worst a full engine rebuild. Time to make a decision in what you want to do and how much you want to spend before you even put a spanner on it.

Pulling it apart will also tell you why it has happened.


Andy

Yep well this is were we are at its looking like a full reco and we are now looking for options one were and who to use ..

[drifter** *]

give dave at Gossies a call, he's in morriset.- 0249732128

[lokka]

Results are in and its not good its going to be a full reco now as we have removed the head and found that no2 cyl is the problem with 2 bad scores at the verry top of the stroke were the lower compression ring starts to head back down the 2 scores are about 20mm by about 2mm deep and look just like as if someone has wacked it with a blunt cold chisel and there about 90 deg apart around the cyl circumfrence .

We are now talking to a few engin shops here in newy to find out who can do the work and what they recomend im guessing on doing the stuffed liner with a new one then bore and re hone the whole lot and fit new pistons,rings ,bearings the whole lot and do the head up .

Any advice on parts or part supplyers or pointers on the rebuild would be great as we are going to do all the work that we can to try save a few bucks

[dumbdunce]

if the other 5 bores are not excessively worn then there is no need to re-bore them all. likewise if the pistons are good there is no need to replace them. if you are doing the work yourself then spend the time with the micrometer to find out what actually needs replacing. if it is only that piston then you only need to buy one new piston. You need either a bore comparator ($$$) or a set of telescopic gauges and micrometers, or inside micrometers, to measure the bores. (however if the hone cross hatch is visible for the entire height of the bore then the bore is probably ok).

2mm is very deep for a score in a bore wall and the block many not be able to be saved, you will probably need to have it crack tested in that area (magnetic particle suspension is probably sufficient) to ensure the damage does penetrate into the water jacket. Thils will be up to your machine shop. There are no liners in a 1H* engine but you can probably have it sleeved, but it might be cheaper to source a block (1HD and 1HZ use the same block)

parts there is all 4x4 spares at Kotara, SMS Diesel in Auburn, Don Kyatt in Seven Hills. There also rebuild kits and most parts available on ebay.

enjoy.

[lokka]

if the other 5 bores are not excessively worn then there is no need to re-bore them all. likewise if the pistons are good there is no need to replace them. if you are doing the work yourself then spend the time with the micrometer to find out what actually needs replacing. if it is only that piston then you only need to buy one new piston. You need either a bore comparator ($$$) or a set of telescopic gauges and micrometers, or inside micrometers, to measure the bores. (however if the hone cross hatch is visible for the entire height of the bore then the bore is probably ok).

2mm is very deep for a score in a bore wall and the block many not be able to be saved, you will probably need to have it crack tested in that area (magnetic particle suspension is probably sufficient) to ensure the damage does penetrate into the water jacket. Thils will be up to your machine shop. There are no liners in a 1H* engine but you can probably have it sleeved, but it might be cheaper to source a block (1HD and 1HZ use the same block)

parts there is all 4x4 spares at Kotara, SMS Diesel in Auburn, Don Kyatt in Seven Hills. There also rebuild kits and most parts available on ebay.

enjoy.

Thanks for the geat advice

the head is off getting sorted and injectors are geting recoed also the block is coming out tomoro .

Was thinking along the same lines with only needing to fix the one cylinder as i can still see hone marks in all cyls even the shaged one .
The scores are maby not as deep as i may have mentioned but there bad once the block is out and on the stand we can mike it all up (have some inside mike's thanks to my pop who was a marine eng) then we will know were we stand .
parts so far are best coming from SMS and the shop doing the head the local guys in kotara are way to exxy .

Thanks again for all the great advice

[Dzltec]

What caused the problem? This also needs to be found. How many km's on the engine. If everything is coming apart, don't be frugal unless you really have to be. It may be more beneficial to go up one size in bore, full set of new pistons and rings. Also get the crank crack tested, its a preventative thing just in case.

Also look at the injector pump, turbocharger, cooling system and clutch. Its the ideal time to sort all those items out as well. If an engine reconditioner is rebuilding it, find out their warranty details and what they want done.


Andy

[+dj_hansen+]

My sentiments would be along the lines of Dzltecs... you have it all apart, no point in trying to save a dollar or two here and there if its going to come back and bite you down the track.

Also have a look at the oil catch can thread currently in General Tech if you plan on fitting one

Would be interesting to see a dollar value at the end, given what the 1HDFT is worth to buy even second hand.

[dumbdunce]

whilst not wanting to start an argument, it's important to point out that there is a difference between not doing something "just to save a buck" and not doing something because it's not necessary. if the bores and pistons are within specifications, there is absolutely no need to replace the pistons or have the block bored. There is no point in doing work that is no necessary - pistons and bores in most engines will last a million km, and outlast three or four sets of man and big end bearings, if the engine is well maintained.

further to the subject of to re-bore or not to re-bore, the first oversize is probably 0.5mm which may not be enough to erase the scoring that is apparently somewhere between 0 and 2mm. even the 2nd oversize (1.0mm) may not be sufficient to erase the scoring - in which case that bore will need to be sleeved regardless (or the block replaced - decide which is cheaper). if you re-bore all the other bores AND you have to sleeve the scored bore out to a size to match the other 5, you start making the cylinder wall very thin and block integrity may suffer.

many engine builders/reconditioners will actually only re-bore a single (or 2 or 3) bores and fit oversize pistons to those bores only - generally oversize pistons are weighted to match the original pistons for this reason. I don't recommend it, but it is fairly common practise.

These are things you need to talk over with your engine builder/machine shop, and maybe ring a few to get a few opinions - if you just front up to one shop and say 'do whatever it takes' you might end up with a big bill and a lot of unnecessary work performed.

I agree that it's necessary to attempt to find out the cause of the failure - otherwise you're setting it up just to fail again.


looking forward to hearing about your building experience - I am thinking about pulling my 1HD-FT for a freshen up (around 300,000km) but not sure that it will be worth the effort.

[Dzltec]

The only way to know if bores are ok is with a bore micrometer. Don't use telescopic jobbies, they are inaccurate to the untained user.

Yes I agree with checking things, from experience we always see what happens after a patch up. You will do it again, because it was done with mechanical wear.



Andy

[lokka]

Well the mission has started old man is into it removing bull bar and all the front plastic to get the support and rad out then we can lift out the donk .
Being an auto should make it easy to get back in tho i wont know till we get to the stage of unbolting the flex plate off the torque converter .
As for doing the work to the block we have spoken to a engin builder who seems to know a bit about these engins and he wants us to take it apart and take it out to him and he will measure the bores for us with a bore mic so we can work out the best option for rebuild .
Old man is keen to do the full works and rebore and fit all new pistons but if its not needed then he will go the other way tho firstly we have to check out why it has done this and what caused it as this is still the mistery .

So far we have sent the injectors to SMS for a reco and the head has been sent off for a reco also should have them back before xmas .
The block wont be ready till about the 2nd week in the new year but the engin builder wants it before xmas so he can measure it and get the bits ordered and then sit the block in the hot tank for a week over xmas to get it all nice and clean .

Thanks to all for the good advice and sugestions thus far il keep you lot posted on progress and will do a bit of a tech write up and total cost at the end of the job