AUSSIE ROCK RACE - 2011 - Pics page 6&7

[harrisbm]

The event has changed names due to the amount of interest and the fact that 8 hour endurance rock race doesn't go well with marketing. The rules will have minor changes due to the fact there has been a lot of incorrect information given to us. We will continue to revise the rules like today after speaking to a 3 car team from down south they would like multiple drivers due to the comfort of a buggy. I agree with this as the V8's have driver changes.
Events will never get off the ground if everything has to be perfect. Due to the support we have recieved it was agreeded by all owners at the business meeting tonight that we would invest the money required to hold this type of event.
The insurance company came back with 5 more requirements today that cost money. That is also why the rules are changing. If we don't change the insurance company will say no to cover.
Thanks to all those who have PM'ed their questions and concerns

[mickyd555]

The event has changed names due to the amount of interest and the fact that 8 hour endurance rock race doesn't go well with marketing. The rules will have minor changes due to the fact there has been a lot of incorrect information given to us. We will continue to revise the rules like today after speaking to a 3 car team from down south they would like multiple drivers due to the comfort of a buggy. I agree with this as the V8's have driver changes.
Events will never get off the ground if everything has to be perfect. Due to the support we have recieved it was agreeded by all owners at the business meeting tonight that we would invest the money required to hold this type of event.
The insurance company came back with 5 more requirements today that cost money. That is also why the rules are changing. If we don't change the insurance company will say no to cover.
Thanks to all those who have PM'ed their questions and concerns

has an entry fee been worked out yet?

[BEEPJEEP]

The event has changed names due to the amount of interest and the fact that 8 hour endurance rock race doesn't go well with marketing. The rules will have minor changes due to the fact there has been a lot of incorrect information given to us. We will continue to revise the rules like today after speaking to a 3 car team from down south they would like multiple drivers due to the comfort of a buggy. I agree with this as the V8's have driver changes.
Events will never get off the ground if everything has to be perfect. Due to the support we have recieved it was agreeded by all owners at the business meeting tonight that we would invest the money required to hold this type of event.
The insurance company came back with 5 more requirements today that cost money. That is also why the rules are changing. If we don't change the insurance company will say no to cover.
Thanks to all those who have PM'ed their questions and concerns

Yes fair enough Brendon-------fair enough

[harrisbm]

Yes it's still $300 and won't change. All the extra insurance required costs will be funded by the park. Our Marketing team believes with the 4x4show exposure and general media releases we will get a large number of spectators.
We will be looking at setting spectator cost at next months business meeting.

[Suspension Stuff]

There are some people who think that this whole process has been unprofessional and I would like to address their concerns.

As soon as Brenden gave me the nod that we could do a hard core rock crawling race at Scenic Rim I posted up my ideas in this thread. This is before any of us had even considered what rules we should go with, before any of us considered what we should name the event. This happened on the 17th of December, less then a month ago. In that time both Brenden and myself have come up with a course, come up with the rules, gone on holidays and listened to everyones ideas.

The reason why this event will be successful will be partly because we have listened to the ideas of Outers members so before you have a go at my unprofessional conduct have a think about it. To me, isn't this the whole idea of a forum.

For those who have sent me messages about their ideas for the event, I thank you and not having a dig and if you see some holes in the rules, feel free to send me a pm or an email and I will pass the good ideas on to Brenden.

One thing I am sure of. This is going to be an awesome race and in time I think it will be legendary amongst Australian rock crawlers.

Please keep all comments constructive.

I am even considering not racing myself in the first event to give everybody else a chance of winning

Shane

[BEEPJEEP]

Shane or brendon, on the spectator's side of things, And competitor's family that will be there, will they be able to drive there own 4x4 around to veiw the race? or the everyday joe blow spectator will he or she just be able to drive around at the extra cost when the price gets worked out. Or will there be to many cars do u think? Can they just walk around or is it too big?? How about a small paying fee for a shuttle bus to get around???

[booflux]

No offence but for me its getting further from the original idea, the idea of driver changes to me is ridiculous, if your buggy isnt comfortable enough stiff $hit. Sacrifice some ability for comfort, I see it the same as the two track idea.

Keep it simple not difficult, I understand insurance company demands and saftey has to be first. But I think saying we want this to be the hardest event in Oz, we want buggies against trucks mix of speed and crawling, its going to be a race to attrition.

Then suddenly its if your car isnt as capable you get to do an easier track and if your buggy is too uncomfortable you can change drivers. It makes no sense?

If you get a capable buggy and a team of drivers like Ruff, Sam, beebee or a team of other top level drivers imo anyway, put them in a capable buggy and change drivers to keep them fresh then imo the rest of us might as well stay at home.

The only chance some of us have of beating one of these guys would be if they lose concentration after a few hours and break something. If your going to take that out of the equation then do away with the 8 hour idea and say first to do 5 laps wins.

Not trying to be a smartarse and its no secret I have NO 4x4 comp experience, but I am keen to have a crack at this one if my pos is complete in time. And if not as a spectator I would rather see an event without compromise.

[Suspension Stuff]

Bathurst isn't known as a compromise, it is known as an awesome race.

[Micka]

No offence but for me its getting further from the original idea, the idea of driver changes to me is ridiculous, if your buggy isnt comfortable enough stiff $hit. Sacrifice some ability for comfort, I see it the same as the two track idea.

Keep it simple not difficult, I understand insurance company demands and saftey has to be first. But I think saying we want this to be the hardest event in Oz, we want buggies against trucks mix of speed and crawling, its going to be a race to attrition.

Then suddenly its if your car isnt as capable you get to do an easier track and if your buggy is too uncomfortable you can change drivers. It makes no sense?

If you get a capable buggy and a team of drivers like Ruff, Sam, beebee or a team of other top level drivers imo anyway, put them in a capable buggy and change drivers to keep them fresh then imo the rest of us might as well stay at home.

The only chance some of us have of beating one of these guys would be if they lose concentration after a few hours and break something. If your going to take that out of the equation then do away with the 8 hour idea and say first to do 5 laps wins.

Not trying to be a smartarse and its no secret I have NO 4x4 comp experience, but I am keen to have a crack at this one if my pos is complete in time. And if not as a spectator I would rather see an event without compromise.

I agree.

Either it is the hardest event in Oz...or its not. You cant have both. I don't recall seeing driver changes and pillows on seats in KOH. Set the rules and set the course. One class, one track. If people puss out then bad luck for them.

And keep in mind that KOH is not 2 races old. It's been building over probably 10 years, so don't expect 90 cars for your first one. I would imagine that a field of about 10 would be achievable and realistic.

[FireTruck]

I'm an outside maybe for this event...

The logistics of making this happen for me... timing, travel, etc - are a nightmare. Also I haven't driven in about 2 years, so I have to remember where the go and stop pedals are and what all those damn levers do... and what that new joystick thing is for... I seem to have mis-placed the instruction manual...

(I'm also not at all keen to drive through lots of water and mud... been there, done that, prefer to stick to the rocks)

S.

[napsta]

No offence but for me its getting further from the original idea, the idea of driver changes to me is ridiculous, if your buggy isnt comfortable enough stiff $hit. Sacrifice some ability for comfort, I see it the same as the two track idea.

Keep it simple not difficult, I understand insurance company demands and saftey has to be first. But I think saying we want this to be the hardest event in Oz, we want buggies against trucks mix of speed and crawling, its going to be a race to attrition.

Then suddenly its if your car isnt as capable you get to do an easier track and if your buggy is too uncomfortable you can change drivers. It makes no sense?

If you get a capable buggy and a team of drivers like Ruff, Sam, beebee or a team of other top level drivers imo anyway, put them in a capable buggy and change drivers to keep them fresh then imo the rest of us might as well stay at home.

The only chance some of us have of beating one of these guys would be if they lose concentration after a few hours and break something. If your going to take that out of the equation then do away with the 8 hour idea and say first to do 5 laps wins.

Not trying to be a smartarse and its no secret I have NO 4x4 comp experience, but I am keen to have a crack at this one if my pos is complete in time. And if not as a spectator I would rather see an event without compromise.

I agree.

Either it is the hardest event in Oz...or its not. You cant have both. I don't recall seeing driver changes and pillows on seats in KOH. Set the rules and set the course. One class, one track. If people puss out then bad luck for them.

And keep in mind that KOH is not 2 races old. It's been building over probably 10 years, so don't expect 90 cars for your first one. I would imagine that a field of about 10 would be achievable and realistic.

I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of teams change drivers during this year's KOH. It is something I am seriously thinking about.

[booflux]

Bathurst isn't known as a compromise, it is known as an awesome race.

No offence but I think trying to compare this to Bathurst or KOH is a little lame.(For want of a better word) I understand that your trying to achieve something big and thats fantastic but make it an event in its own right much like Tuff Truck has done.

Bathurst is a road race with cars reaching 300km/h we are talking buggies and offroad rigs some of which may be lucky to hit 100km/h in this event. We are a long way behind the states in purpose built buggies due to the majority of people thinking something with a cab is related to their daily driver. Once there are events for them and if they can maintain spectator numbers then things may change.

Time will tell, but I think you need to decide if you want a hard race or a compromised race to get numbers. The original idea appealed to me greatly, but I must admit its getting less appealing as ideas progress. I dont like the idea of being beaten by a rig either more or less capable because they used the "chicken track" route or they changed drivers to help keep them alert and fresh.

At the end of the day its your comp and your rules but seeing as input has been asked for I thought I would add my 2c

[Mosko111]

I think the point he was trying to put across with the bathurst remark, is that in bathurst, drivers are changed through the race, but its still awesome,

and that you could have the two best drivers in a holden or ford but that doesnt mean jack over that distance if the vehicle doesnt run at 100% or for some reason there is a breakage or something along those lines,
thats just as an example, sure its a totally different type of race but still its the same factors just on a different scale with a different scenario,

And after 8 hours im sure everyone whose driving will feel like they have been bent over by a donkey and given a reall good seeing to,

[booflux]

I think the point he was trying to put across with the bathurst remark, is that in bathurst, drivers are changed through the race, but its still awesome,

and that you could have the two best drivers in a holden or ford but that doesnt mean jack over that distance if the vehicle doesnt run at 100% or for some reason there is a breakage or something along those lines,
thats just as an example, sure its a totally different type of race but still its the same factors just on a different scale with a different scenario,

And after 8 hours im sure everyone whose driving will feel like they have been bent over by a donkey and given a reall good seeing to,

Does Paris to Dakar, Baja, OBC allow driver changes? Not being a smart arse genuine question as I dont believe they do and yet these events are also great in their own right

[brooksy]

Driver change I don't see as too much of a drama but would need time minimums say 2nd driver has to do 2hrs. This should be limited to only 2 drivers, no more & if you allow this it does add in the variable of different driver characteristics which can work against you. You still need the vehicle to hold up regardless.
With regard to the track I feel it should be 1 track only, no chicken sidetrack. The course should be able to accomidate the different lines that maybe required. Or with some of your testing on the course you should be able to find a lot of these areas that maybe of concern with breakages so have recovery vehicles at those points.




brooksy

[11_evl]

There is only one track. But as mentioned in some of the areas, on the one track, there are passing places. I'm sure after a lap or two the easier lines will be exposed. But as happens even the easy line can cause holdups or breakages, so in thAt case ppl will have to wait or go around. Most of the harder parts do have ways around. If not than too bad I guess that's racing.
Driver changes I'm not too fussed about, swapping between navy and driver is fair game IMO

[FireTruck]

Doing a great job getting this thing off the ground guys - it's a thankless task - thanks for stepping up.

How about you have a 2 man team - call them driver and navi if you like. Either of these 2 people can drive/navi. They can both be in the 'car', or 1 out 1 in, or whatever (well, not both out I guess... ).

For single seater buggies this means that you can swap whenever... between laps, or even during a lap if your navi is running along side (pfffft!). But it has to be one of the two nominated team members.

No minimum seat time or laps or whatever... would just make it too complicated to keep track of for marshals etc. Keep it simple.

S.

[Rory]

iv been reading the whole thing, the idea sounds great!
While ill never race in the event or any event,

I think if you are going to have driver changes, it should only be Orig. driver swapping with their navi, and then changing back if they want after a min set time.

Either way I will be coming out to spectate, if its like your ideas, it will be a great event.

[Suspension Stuff]

There is not going to be a chicken track anymore. I repeat no chicken track. Everyone will be running on the same track. If someone is badly stuck for over 2 minutes on a rock down in the bottom creek run where we have chicken tracks we can then open this up.

Yes we will have multiple recovery vehicles in certain areas.

[Suspension Stuff]

Low speed spot. The spot where we have to do a low speed because of spectators is less then 30 metres long and it is between slow rock sections. We will have lollypop Marshalls here so it won't hold up the drivers.

MORE ROCK

Because we are now totally focusing on rock rigs Brenden has decided to introduce more rock to the course.

[rockcrawler31]

I tend to agree with brooksy and boof's comments.

It's not an endurance race if only the vehicle is getting punished for 8 hours. I think keep it to Driver and Navi who may swap duties if they wish since one way or the other they'll both still be doing 8 hours. An entering team is made up of man and machine, not just machine and not just man. It takes a competent machine to hold together, but it takes a competent driver/navi to make the decisions. Otherwise you may as well just run all the cars with a remote control to see what machine is the best out there instead of which team.

I would also prefer to see more speed and open areas, even if its out on the farmland that you drive through on the way in (with consultation with the landowner of course.), but that's just my preference because i'd like to open up the legs on the devil. I think the reason the hammers is such a hard race is because it neither favours a crawler nor does it favour a class 8 truck. If we continue to make it harder and harder rock, then we may as well just turn up to watch buggies battle it out since the full bodied and chassi'd rigs will have no areas that suit their strengths.

I am dead set keen to race in this event assuming i can get my cage built and diffs braced in time. But it's looking more and more like an 8 hour Werock instead of who's got the best all rounder. Of course i need to see the course to really make this call.

Overall, small technicalities aside i think we should stick to the format of 2 Blokes, one vehicle, one set of rules for all, one track with bailout areas in case of breakages and and a MIX of terrain.

Brendan and Shane - please accept this as my nomination for the event unless like mentioned, i can't get the bastard together in time. If i were you, considering the time and effort and money to get this organised i would be looking at asking for a deposit at least for the entry fee to sort out the posers from the serious entrants. However having said that, as an entrant i would want to see a format and a set of rules in stone before i paid, even if i didn't agree with them. Just so i could be sure what i was getting in for and make a decision on whether i would be in the right league.

[Suspension Stuff]

I think you are mistaken if you think a full bodied rig has an advantage in the speed section. Milo you can go fast between the rocks

I don't care who drives, at the end of the day we are going to have a lot of fun. I don't think multiple drivers are going to be a massive advantage to any team because the 2nd driver won't be as good as the 1st and the 3rd driver won't be as good as the 2nd.

If OPW comes up to race I won't expect him to be in the vehicle the full time because he has a bad back.

[booflux]

I think you are mistaken if you think a full bodied rig has an advantage in the speed section. Milo you can go fast between the rocks

I don't care who drives, at the end of the day we are going to have a lot of fun. I don't think multiple drivers are going to be a massive advantage to any team because the 2nd driver won't be as good as the 1st and the 3rd driver won't be as good as the 2nd.

If OPW comes up to race I won't expect him to be in the vehicle the full time because he has a bad back.

Fair enough Shane like I said its your call but I think I will wait and see a full set of rules before I commit to anything.

[brooksy]

When I said 2 drivers , navi/driver swapping is what I was meaning I just wasn't clear. My bad !!




brooksy

[Suspension Stuff]

When I said 2 drivers , navi/driver swapping is what I was meaning I just wasn't clear. My bad !!




brooksy

Nah, I think I know what you meant. It is a valid idea, just not the one we are going with.

[RUFF]

No offence but for me its getting further from the original idea, the idea of driver changes to me is ridiculous, if your buggy isnt comfortable enough stiff $hit. Sacrifice some ability for comfort, I see it the same as the two track idea.

Keep it simple not difficult, I understand insurance company demands and saftey has to be first. But I think saying we want this to be the hardest event in Oz, we want buggies against trucks mix of speed and crawling, its going to be a race to attrition.

Then suddenly its if your car isnt as capable you get to do an easier track and if your buggy is too uncomfortable you can change drivers. It makes no sense?

If you get a capable buggy and a team of drivers like Ruff, Sam, beebee or a team of other top level drivers imo anyway, put them in a capable buggy and change drivers to keep them fresh then imo the rest of us might as well stay at home.

The only chance some of us have of beating one of these guys would be if they lose concentration after a few hours and break something. If your going to take that out of the equation then do away with the 8 hour idea and say first to do 5 laps wins.

Not trying to be a smartarse and its no secret I have NO 4x4 comp experience, but I am keen to have a crack at this one if my pos is complete in time. And if not as a spectator I would rather see an event without compromise.

For once i almost totaly agrea with you.

If this is more than a 2 person team im out.

If we are going to open up easy lines when someone gets stuck im also out. The course needs to be set in stone. If you can not design a course to suit the entered vehicles then maybe you should re-concider attempting to run the "Hardest 4wd Event in the World".

[RUFF]

Doing a great job getting this thing off the ground guys - it's a thankless task - thanks for stepping up.

How about you have a 2 man team - call them driver and navi if you like. Either of these 2 people can drive/navi. They can both be in the 'car', or 1 out 1 in, or whatever (well, not both out I guess... ).

For single seater buggies this means that you can swap whenever... between laps, or even during a lap if your navi is running along side (pfffft!). But it has to be one of the two nominated team members.

No minimum seat time or laps or whatever... would just make it too complicated to keep track of for marshals etc. Keep it simple.

S.

I also agrea with this including the first bit.

[RUFF]

And keep in mind that KOH is not 2 races old. It's been building over probably 10 years, so don't expect 90 cars for your first one. I would imagine that a field of about 10 would be achievable and realistic.

Its 3 races old and maybe another year in the planning. Before that it was just a crazy idea running around in Dave Coles head.

I also think a smaller field of selected vehicles running the first event would be a much better idea. That way you work out if its possible befpore you try and take on a heap of sponsors that will never return because you couldnt pull the first event off with so many rigs and unknown problems that will arise.

Even KOH had a pre run on there event that was Invite only (no media no sponsors) and that is where the OG13 life time automatic entrants come from in KOH.

[OIIIIIIIO]

We are going to have a clean up and drive it day not this saturday but next saturday the 23rd because Brenden and I can't make it this saturday.

Who do you need what do we bring what time do we meet who can turn up??

[Suspension Stuff]

As you can see I am starting a list on who is entering.

1. Evan (Evinstaniland)
toyota bundera
4.0L toyota V8
80s diffs with longs and locked
custom 3 link + panhard front and rear
42" iroks
Build Up http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=103429
Short Video www.energizedracing.com

2. Team: MOG
Driver: Geoff Thompson CCDA member
Co/Driver: Owen Griffis CCDA member
Pit Crew: Tire Bitch; BOOF Plus Hyper active COL and Supa MATT
Experience: Tuff Truck 2009 and entered Tuff Truck 2010
Vehicle: Mercedes Unimog 404 Comp spec's
links to Vid

Tuff Mog 09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KDAtKT_poU

Mog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDo7_nCDcPI

Mog Day Out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xaKWFQvBFw

3. Havoc Racing - Spiderman

4. 11Evil

5. Cut 4B
91 sierra ute ,lux diff , lockers , coilovers , 35s, we will be coming up from coffs harbour

6. Nairbo

7. Joshy

8.

It sholud be Harleys name there unless he skirts it and lets me give the county a decent floging.

9. Purplebus
truck specs: gq wagon purple of course
td42t man
front and rear lockers
gu diffs
5 link front
a-frame rear
cage and barwork
ramps...
will have crawler gears and a high mount and either 37s or 38s on the day.
have done the allterrain for 3yrs,except last year. did the Suspension Stuff challenge with evil-11

10. Brokenbits Racing
Driver: Milo Milanovic (rockcrawler31)
Navi: Luke McNicol (Angryelmo)
Landcruiser 75 series, 4.2 1HZ-T water/air intercooled
80s diffs locked both end
custom radius arm + panhard front and Tri 4 link rear.
37" Maxxis Creepies
Build Up http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic124061-0-0-asc-.php
Short Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvkY1AytHQ8


The rest are maybe until I get a pm with the details.

Micka
Simcoz
Got Mud
1<Hilux-4x4!>
80LSYGQ
Pootrollin
Twitchin
Booflux
Strange Rover
Purplebus
redzook
dave
High Roller
1Mad Engineer
Mosk111
Rhett
Mud Guts
tuf045
Brooksy (Doesn't look like it)
Firetruck