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Pacman Going off what we have read on Pirate 4x4 the common part that the yanks are breaking is the locking ring for the locker.
The diffs we are building:
Yes they end up a high pinion.
they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol
The salsbury diff can be re tubed with a thicker wall material as we will be doing.
why go a 9.75 crown wheel? Well cause we can and we want it as strong as possible but not go silly with the cost + it tequnically is a rover diff and we are trying to incorporate rover bits into the build not just mask everything with a Rover bonnet.
nottie wrote:they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol
Hey, a giant light bulb just popped up over my head!
Any rules against rear engined vehicles???
Now is a good time to rotate the whole drivetrain (front to rear)
nottie wrote:they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol
Hey, a giant light bulb just popped up over my head!
Any rules against rear engined vehicles???
Now is a good time to rotate the whole drivetrain (front to rear)
Spare tyre can go under the bonnet
Yeah I think Pete was trying to do that for last year and had an engineer lied up to approve it, but it turned out to be one for the too hard basket. There was even a production 4x4 with a rear engine. The info is in Pete's build up thread.
nottie wrote: The diffs we are building:
Yes they end up a high pinion.
they have to be flipped as the portel box reverses the drive to the axel and if we dont we will have 3 reverse gears and 1 forward. ( C4 Auto) Thats not really an issue as it will have 45 degree steer at both diffs so i spose we can just spin the d seat around lol
Cheers Nottie
Nottie, does the C4 have reverse rotation compared to every other gearbox?
No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.
nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.
Only need to flip if there is only two gears in the portal box.
edit* like this (mog portal I think...):
If it is arranged like this but then you don't need to flip:
-Scott- wrote:Isn't it a bit early in the day to be pissed?
nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.
Only need to flip if there is only two gears in the portal box.
edit* like this (mog portal I think...):
Yep...that's why the Salisbury will be flipped
We did some quick measurements on the the MogSals versus the standard 404s and it looks like that we will lose only 30mm in clearance under the diff. Might be able to shave some off that, but really, 30mm in over half a metre of clearance under the diffs isn't going to bother me.
nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.
Cool, I'd just never heard of anybody flipping mogs with a conventionally orientated motor. I'm guessing now that the mog diff operates from the factory in the reverse direction. Did PeteA also do this?
nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.
Cool, I'd just never heard of anybody flipping mogs with a conventionally orientated motor. I'm guessing now that the mog diff operates from the factory in the reverse direction. Did PeteA also do this?
Yep, the mog diffs come "flipped" from the factory.
With hybrid axles, you need to flip the centres, unless rear engined or running something that spins backwards like a honda motor.
G-wagens have a flipped front (but no portals) - so the t-case must have some funky stuff to make the front prop turn in the opposite direction to the rear.
nottie wrote:No slunnie why is that?
It seems if some other suggesting we have something wrong with rotations to get to the high pinion. Must keep in mind that the diff needs to turn opposite as to run the portal forward.
Cool, I'd just never heard of anybody flipping mogs with a conventionally orientated motor. I'm guessing now that the mog diff operates from the factory in the reverse direction. Did PeteA also do this?
Pete has Mog406 diffs with a 421 centre so his are all Mog. In his buggies he had hybrid axels consisting of 9" centres and Hummer portals. He didn't need to flip those diffs because the buggies were rear engined.
It can do you head in just checking and double checking which part turns what way, but at the end of the day, both Salisbury diffs will be flipped(in high pinion position) in order for the MogSals to drive in the right direction.
Excellent! Quite sincerely thanks for this Ben and Micka. I didn't realise all of this with the Mog diffs, I had just assumed that they operated like every other, and actually I also thought that the portals had 4 gears instead of 2.
uninformed wrote:gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.
We have been through this before. Gun drilling makes axles lighter, while at the same time giving a negligible/small reduction in overall strength (if any reduction at all).
Some people think that gun drilling makes axles stronger - due to more uniform heat treatment or other issues, however there is no evidence to back this up.
Last edited by ISUZUROVER on Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
uninformed wrote:gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.
We have been through this before. Gun drilling maxes axles lighter, while at the same time giving a negligible/small reduction in overall strength (if any reduction at all).
Some people thing that gun drilling makes axles stronger - due to more uniform heat treatment or other issues, however there is no evidence to back this up.
I had also heard it makes them stronger as there are 2 surfaces (ie torsional forces are focussed in the surface of the shaft), but that really didn't make sense to me either.
uninformed wrote:gun drilling, while making it lighter is debatable whether it makes it stronger.
We have been through this before. Gun drilling maxes axles lighter, while at the same time giving a negligible/small reduction in overall strength (if any reduction at all).
Some people thing that gun drilling makes axles stronger - due to more uniform heat treatment or other issues, however there is no evidence to back this up.
I had also heard it makes them stronger as there are 2 surfaces (ie torsional forces are focussed in the surface of the shaft), but that really didn't make sense to me either.
I posted something years ago about gun drilled axles being stronger (based on info from a US axle manufacturer), and was shot down in flames by the mech engineers on here - Bush65, Red90rover, etc...
The reason the reduction in strength due to gun drilling is minimal, is that stress is concentrated on the outside of the axle shaft. The inner (gun drilled) surface is not stressed at all. An axle is basically as strong as the root diameter of the splines (all other things being equal).
Micka wrote:Yep...that's why the Salisbury will be flipped
You are using a 60 center with MOG portals???? Why?
Ahh I see...
Micka wrote:The new diffs will be hybrids called "MogSals". We are using 4.7:1 ratio Salisbury's with the Mog outers. This will give a 10:1 reduction. Keith Kruetzer from RoverTracks is going to be making the custom inner axels that will be 1.5" 35 spline at the diff end to the 1.6" Mog end. These babies will go into the 35 spline Detroit lockers that will be in the Salisburies.
A little excessive over design and one hell of a heavy axle..... To each their own, I guess.
with twin calipers 
Be round soon Tony
