Very Dangerous problem. Need help!

[mike_nofx]

Ok this is what happened..

Im inside with my wife and baby, and we hear my Landcruisers (right outside, within meters) engine crank over and the alarm go off.

I grabbed my keys, ran outside and i see the cruiser driving slowly away but no-one inside, engine was cranking still and it was in first gear. Handbrake was on, but not 100% effective.

I open the door, reef up handbrake more and put it in neutral. Engine is still cranking and i cant stop it so i pop the bonnet open and pull the earth off the battery. Was on tight, so i really had to pull it.

Both the positive and negative cables were very hot, positive was smoking. I burnt my hand removing the negative cable.

What the hell happened? I havent had a good chance to suss it out. If i find its a simple problem, i will fix it, otherwise might be a job for the pros.

Its a 1998 105 landcruiser with 1HZ engine. We've had heavy rain today, so something may be wet?

Any ideas very much appreciated!

Thanks
Mike

[toaddog]

Was on patrol in ferny grove one night and we noticed a sedan on the footpath with a bloke pushing the front end of it. Turns out the same thing had happened. He had heard it cranking over slowly and come out and say it slowly moving off. He jumped in front and tried to stop it from going down the hill. He was stuffed as he had been there for a few minutes screaming out for help and we just happened to drive past. The insulation on the battery cables had melted and caught fire.

[YNOT]

Something has shorted the wiring to the starter or starter relay. If you're OK with a multimeter it shouldn't be too hard to find the cause.

I've heard of it happening when cars are on fire. The insulation on the wiring melts, shorts out, and the burning car slowly drives itself down the road!

Tony

[james0]

happend to my old rodeo starter motor was fecked, disconect the switch wire from your starter and reconect your battery, then grab a test light and see if the switch wire has power while not cranking, if so there is a short in that line, possibly the relay. if no power there, turn the ignition and make sure it powers when on cranking. pm me if you need more help, used to be an auto leccy.

[mike_nofx]

Thanks for the ideas.

Does this sound correct?

If i disconnect the switch wire (thin wire going to starter solenoid), and the engine doesnt crank on its own its a problem between key switch and the solenoid switch wire... shorting out.


If it continues to crank on its own with switch wire disconnected, its a solenoid problem. Probably sticking closed?

I didnt add this before, but once i disconnected the battery cable and let it cool, i re connected it a few times to test it. It never started cranking the instant i connected the cable back up. It had varying times of delay.

The first time i re connected it it didnt start cranking till 5 or so seconds later. times varied between 5-30 seconds. The last time i connected it, it didnt crank (i waited 2-3 minutes), so i tested it with the key and it still started fine.

I have a feeling its the solenoid sticking, it has been exposed to water and mud crossings.

I have left the battery disconnected of course.

[grimbo]

wow that is very weird, would have been a very strange thing to experience. Lucky nothing much was damaged.

You haven't added any electrical stuff lately by chance?

[wacky]

Alarm doesnt have remote start does it? (getting tripped on somehow)

[krusty182]

I agree it would have been weird to experience.
No-one has said it yet, so I'll say that I reckon the cables being hot would be normal, just caused by the starter motor drawing so much current over the (much?) longer than normal cranking time.

I also lean towards it being most likely a short in the contacts of your starter motor solenoid from what you have described. What James0 and wacky have said sound plausible, another thing to consider is your ignition switch.

[killalux]

starter solonoids can stick, however this will only happen after you have started the car.

sticking solonoids will not make the car just start cranking at random.

you have a short somewhere, Maybe mice chewed wiring? wires in the loom may be melted together from another fault?
Could be water in the relay, could be a farked alarm system. Either way will not be an easy thing to find if that fault is no longer present.

I would suggest leaving the car in neutral

Steve

[bazzle]

May be another good reason to remove and clean electical parts after mud and water driving.
Has been known to happen in the middle of the desert with the high salt content in any damp areas playing havoc on electrics.

Bazzle

[TWISTY]

A mates 80 series ute did this once too, also a 1hz, but his was on the driveway, and drove through the roller door into the garage, crashing into his moto's and tools. It was raining at the time. Cant remember what he did to fix it.

[zuffen]

I would start with the alarm.

More good cars have been ruined by "alarm experts" doing crappy intals than you would wish to know about.

I was at a mates the other day and his 355 Ferrari started running on only one distributor (twin dizzy's like a Lexus) and he said it happens all the time due to the alarm in the car. The bodgey installer only cut power to one side of the ignition so the car can start with the alarm on but only run on 4 cylinders.

My advice was get it out of there.

[tna racing]

early jeeps had the same problem

[mike_nofx]

Still haven't had a chance to check it out, will this arvo.

It does have an alarm but it doesn't have remote start. I will check wether it is connected to the starter cable somehow.

How could the alarm cause it to crank on it's own tho?

[TroopiePete]

Sounds like I should only ever park with the car in Neutral.
Interested in knowing if disconnecting the small wire fixes the problem.

From memory just putting power on the starter motor will not start the motor as the starter solenoid needs to be energised or the starter motor will run but the gear will not engage the flywheel.
Or are the Toyota starter motors different?

[mmaaxx]

when I was younger and working as an apprentice I was fitting an in car phone kit to one of these cruiser and was hard wiring it in....

once I had done it all I put the phone in the cradle and the vehicle crank and becuse it was in gear at the time launch forward a tad....

needless to say I soiled my under wear.

pull it out of gear, hand brake on and put the phone back in the cradle and the engine cranked again.....

I had done heaps of vehicles before, fitting phone kits and all that but this was my first cruiser at the time.

got a more experienced mechanic to go over how I wired it in and there was a black and white wire that you normally associate as an earth wire in most toyota's but this one was slightly thicker than a normal earth wire that I didnt pick up on at the time...

supposedly its got something to do with the ignition/starting circuit and so when the phone was placed in the cradle it closed that circuit and cranked the vehicle.....still beats the shit out of me!

anyway, just thought Id mention that and suggest that something may have been wired incorrectly or has rubbed through and shorted a similar wire....

[RED60]

crashing into his moto's and tools. Cant remember what he did to fix it.

Got new motos and tools.......

[PJ.zook]

Yeh what others have already said is sound. Its either something shorting out due to rain, or a crappy alarm.
I hate these backyard bloody installers. They probe a wiring loom with theyre test light to fit say a UHF, 'ooh that wire has the right voltage, lets tap into that with a scotch lock', this wire just happens to be a J1908 fastlink datacable and sends the truck into a pink fit.
Whats worse, is theres already wiring fitted from factory, with fuse in central fusebox, specifically for fitting UHF's. Theres even proper grommets to use for aerial, but no they just holesaw thru the body.

[udm]

I really dont believe anymore in getting aftermarket alarms installed after seeing my cruiser on fire.
Im not blaming the alarm, but its the only nonfactory item that remains powered up without ignition (that i can think of anyway)

[trains]

Ok this is what happened..

Im inside with my wife and baby, and we hear my Landcruisers (right outside, within meters) engine crank over and the alarm go off.

I grabbed my keys, ran outside and i see the cruiser driving slowly away but no-one inside, engine was cranking still and it was in first gear. Handbrake was on, but not 100% effective.

I open the door, reef up handbrake more and put it in neutral. Engine is still cranking and i cant stop it so i pop the bonnet open and pull the earth off the battery. Was on tight, so i really had to pull it.

Both the positive and negative cables were very hot, positive was smoking. I burnt my hand removing the negative cable.

What the hell happened? I havent had a good chance to suss it out. If i find its a simple problem, i will fix it, otherwise might be a job for the pros.

Its a 1998 105 landcruiser with 1HZ engine. We've had heavy rain today, so something may be wet?

Any ideas very much appreciated!

Thanks
Mike

Mate of mine had this happen to him, but it was an auto petrol, so it just cranked away for quite some time before they came home and disconnected the terminals.
They had only just had a new windscreen fitted, and guess what, it leaked, and leaked onto the loom under the dash behind the cluster.
Repair leak, and its not done it since.

Yes it does happen :(.
Nfi what was the exact cause, ie which wire/ solenoid etc got wet.

T

edited to add it was a petty.

[lucifer48]

I would be checking the relays to see if water has got to them and also fitting a battery isolating switch.

Seen a couple of badly burned hands as people grab the battery leads and try and yank them off while they are hot.