3rz running like crap when hot

[YN67highlux]

need some help with a 3rz conversion motor into a yn67 hilux. its running fine when its cold but as soon as your 3-4 ks down the road its really struggling. ive checked tank vaccume and thats no probs, there is no temp gauge hooked up yet so i cant see how hot its getting. seems to be running 100% when cold.
any help would be appreciated

[Rory]

no idea...butman ur 3rz seems to have troubles!

[YN67highlux]

haha yea. supposed to be a good motor???? under 100K. 2002 model. we sorted the last problem. it ended being an acc wire we had hooked to relays didnt have enough grunt. duno why this is as i thort that relays only trigger stuff but any way thats whats working atm

[tufflux88]

is your choke stuck on?
or a bad connection with the fuel cut solenoid?

[chimpboy]

no idea...butman ur 3rz seems to have troubles!

I bet it's still just little set-up issues.

it ended being an acc wire we had hooked to relays didnt have enough grunt. duno why this is as i thort that relays only trigger stuff but any way thats whats working atm

To be honest with you, that makes me think you probably had the relays wired wrong - possibly running the accessories line to the main power terminal rather than the trigger terminal.

It's EFI isn't it? Have you checked the coolant temp sensor?

Anyway, you really need to get a temp gauge up and running, for all you know you are really toasting it and that is why it's struggling.

Have you considered taking it to a pro to get the wiring checked over?

[YN67highlux]

thanks
the relays are and were right i checked them over at least 20 times. pretty sure its just little set up issues left myself. i just unplugged the temp sensor just to see what happens and it runs the same. took it for a strap down the road and got about 1k before it started playing up again, so its at a certian temp its doing it as it was still a bit warm from thismorning, il head down to super shit and see if i can find a gauge and get back to yas
thanks for your help

[YN67highlux]

anyone know the normal running temp?
have also been talking to a local guy who owns Total ECU in gladstone and hes booked out for a a week but wiil get it there as soon as possible if its not running right by the end of the weekend.

[YN67highlux]

ok ive just hooked up the temp gauge witch comes with new temp sender. when it gets to about 130f it starts to play up. listning to it idle it runs high when u first start it the dies down to idle speed a few seconds later then after running like that for about 3-4 mins and gets to this temp something happens and it starts to idle funny and miss. any ideas guys???
thanks

[smaddock]

Mine seems to run at about 90degrees celcius in normal temp conditions, hasn't been over 99 degrees even on a 40degree day, that's read with an OBDII scanner so I'd assume it to be accurate.

Not sure what you're issues are, however when I did my conversion I had a few little issues (can't remember what they were!!) so I wired up an OBDII port to the ecu (sorry, can't remember what wires and plugs either ) and bought a cheap scanner for around $100 off ebay that shows engine data including inlet air temp, coolant temp, revs, etc... has been great for keeping an eye on running conditions!

[-Scott-]

Check your fuel lines. If they're getting too hot somewhere you could be boiling fuel in the lines. I would expect fuel pressure to be high enough to effectively prevent boiling, but I guess stranger things have happened?

Got a pressure gauge to check fuel pressure in the rail(s)?

[YN67highlux]

thanks smaddock i shall make a purchase of one of these scanners.

[YN67highlux]

thanks scott. i have ran the fuel lines as follows. have thort about this but return should cool down enough before it goes back to rail

old engine had 2 fuel lines on drivers side (return and supply) and one on pass side (breather)
i have changed this because exaust is on other side of standard
i have now the same hard lines exept the supply is on the pass side now so it is no where near the exaust
the return runs over accross firewall to the old return witch is verry close to exaust along side the breather line that is to the charcol canister.
i would think that by the time the fuel goes to the tank and swirls around a bit it would have cooled down enough? have got about 10ltrs in tank

[-Scott-]

thanks scott. i have ran the fuel lines as follows. have thort about this but return should cool down enough before it goes back to rail

old engine had 2 fuel lines on drivers side (return and supply) and one on pass side (breather)
i have changed this because exaust is on other side of standard
i have now the same hard lines exept the supply is on the pass side now so it is no where near the exaust
the return runs over accross firewall to the old return witch is verry close to exaust along side the breather line that is to the charcol canister.
i would think that by the time the fuel goes to the tank and swirls around a bit it would have cooled down enough? have got about 10ltrs in tank

Yep, I don't see any issues with that.

How is fuel pressure in the lines regulated?

When it's playing up, does it idle rough too, or simply run rough? I'm wondering if O2 sensor could be an issue?

[YN67highlux]

just geting some pics for ya

[YN67highlux]

ive just got the standard reg you can see at the end of the rail in pic
heres where i have mounted the afm and a pic of inside



thanks

[YN67highlux]

going by this pic mine alot closer but shouldnt make that much difference would it?
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b225/ ... Power2.jpg

[Turboshop]

What colour are the plugs after it's been playing up? Are the air and water temp signals conected to the ecu to tell it to change from cold start map? Also maybe do a compression test when hot, 3rz's can be known for valve clearance issues, which can cause rough idle and missfire. Suck, squish, bang, blow, go through the motions, process of elimination. I have the ecu pin outs somewhere if u need to check your wiring.

[dillza_69]

going by this pic mine alot closer but shouldnt make that much difference would it?

No, mine is mounted 100mm from throttle body and is fine.

When it starts running like shit clamp the fuel return and see if that improves it. I know fuel pressure reg stuff up a lot on these motors, mine did but only when it got warm. I replaced mine with a black top Malpassi rising rate and that fixed the problem. Start by clamping the line and see if that fixes the problem.

What did you end up doing to fix the clutch, was it just rusted?

[YN67highlux]

hey guys. will check all these things again in the morning.
thanks turbo shop, havnt checked plugs since exaust has been put on, when it was playing up before http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic199314-0.php the plugs were black and soaking with fuel. (new plugs) unsure about the ecu being able to tell the computer about changing from cold start map but sounds like something i need to look at. more info would be great... the water temp gauge is no longer into ecu if it ever was because of aftermarket gauge i put in today..unsure about valves also. have a print out of ecu already from total ecu thanks..

dillza-69 sounds like my afm should be ok then thanks.. just for shts and giggles i pulled it out while running and it died instantly..ill check the fuel reg as stated thanks. get back to yas tomorrow. haha yea it was rusted had to pull the box out again. no amount of winding over whist brakes on was goin to fix that

[YN67highlux]

ok just went out warmed her up and clamped the fuel line. did nothing at all,. while i was out thou the throttle got stuck on full. not cable its inside the throttlebody somewhere bout to go to supershit and get some carby cleaner give it a good spay and see what that does

[dillza_69]

Mine does the same thing as yours, starts fine, idles slightly high then once warm the idle drops back and has a very slight misfire. Obviously yours is a lot worse than mine. I have tried new leads and plugs, tried playing with spark gap and even tried different fuel pressures. After reading the post by turbo shop im going to check valve clearances although if it was a valve clearance issue i would expect it to happen from start up not only once its warmed up.

Another thing i just thought about, i have my dash temp gauge piggy backed off the coolant temp sender for the ecu, would this somehow affect the signal the ecu is getting? (sorry for the hijack)

[Turboshop]

3rz's should have the valve clearances checked every 60-80 thousand k's as the valves and valve seats wear and the valves stretch the valves stay open for more of the cam rotation. This causes more cam overlap and rough idle. As things wear more the valve eventually stops closing causing lower copression, misfires and burnt out valves. So it's good check them anyways. Now the part I am guessing (someone on here might know for sure) metal expands when hot, hense the valve clearance issues showing up when up to temp....

My after market temp gauge is piggybacked off the ecu wire but using the gauges own sender, which appered to be exactly the same as the factory one and I don't have any dramas. I thought I might due to different sender calibration but it was ok.

The guncked up throttle body will cause problems too

[wacky]

Oxygen sensor?

The ECU will ignore the Oxygen Sensor until it is up to temp (a few minutes), but if once up to temp your Oxygen sensor is misreporting it could be making the mixture overly rich (or lean) causing issues.

[dillza_69]

Thanks Turbo shop i will check valve clearances. As for the coolant temp sender i have the original sender giving the input into the ecu as well as supplying the signal to the dash gauge. I wasn't sure if the dash gauge would interfere with the ecu signal

[YN67highlux]

ok just got back. will have to check valve clearances myself. while i was as supershit getting throttle body cleaner i found a can afm cleaner as well, this didnt help. hmmm probally should put my temp sender back in then? the after market gauge ive got replaces the original sender and the bit that goes to computer is unplugged. has only been in since yesterday so not the problem. took it out the bush today (for diagnostic purposes only of coarse haha) its running ok, just a bit rough when at temp. seems to go better when i have the accelerator pedal at about 1/4 to 1/2 throttle on the highway? witch makes me think over fueling? it wasnt the throttlebody either it was cable sticking......

[chimpboy]

Thanks Turbo shop i will check valve clearances. As for the coolant temp sender i have the original sender giving the input into the ecu as well as supplying the signal to the dash gauge. I wasn't sure if the dash gauge would interfere with the ecu signal

Not sure about that particular motor but some motors have a separate sender for the ECU as opposed to the one that goes to the gauge.

[YN67highlux]

off topic but what diff ratios are guy using? seems to rev pretty low in 4th at 100ks, running 31s

[dillza_69]

Thanks Turbo shop i will check valve clearances. As for the coolant temp sender i have the original sender giving the input into the ecu as well as supplying the signal to the dash gauge. I wasn't sure if the dash gauge would interfere with the ecu signal

Not sure about that particular motor but some motors have a separate sender for the ECU as opposed to the one that goes to the gauge.

Yeah i looked into that but there is definitely only one coolant temp sender. I think from factory the dash gauge was supplied by the ecu, i have done research and without wiring diagram i cant be sure (too tight to buy manual just to get wiring diagram)

[smaddock]

Thanks Turbo shop i will check valve clearances. As for the coolant temp sender i have the original sender giving the input into the ecu as well as supplying the signal to the dash gauge. I wasn't sure if the dash gauge would interfere with the ecu signal

Not sure about that particular motor but some motors have a separate sender for the ECU as opposed to the one that goes to the gauge.

Yeah i looked into that but there is definitely only one coolant temp sender. I think from factory the dash gauge was supplied by the ecu, i have done research and without wiring diagram i cant be sure (too tight to buy manual just to get wiring diagram)

There are 2 coolant temp senders. There's one near the top radiator hose where it goes to the engine which is the one for the dash gauge, and there is one at the back of the head (prick to get to) which is for the ecu. The one for the ecu should be all plugged in with the engine loom and goes straight to the ecu plug.

As for misfiring at idle, mine does this when at operating temp when on petrol, but doesn't do it on lpg, so I think my problem is actually dirty injectors. I don't think mine's anything else to do with fuel probs or maf as its been remapped with a piggyback ecu and the tuner said the fuel ratio's are all fine, but a dirty injector can cause misfiring while still showing good afr's. But thats another story...

As for your's, I really don't know. When I did my conversion I had all sorts of problems with it running rough and crap when I had the maf sensor stuck into a piece of intake hose, and even when i had a custom inlet tube made up with a custom mount for the maf sensor it was still a little rough. It only came completely good when I bought a stock 3rz air box and hacked the maf mount off and mounted this properly into my inlet track. Not sure how your maf is mounted but it looks like you've just drilled a hole in the rubber/plastic inlet tube and stuck it in... I could be wrong but might be something to look at... With efi, one sensor not reading correctly can cause all sorts of crap!!

[Turboshop]

That's a very good point smaddock! 3rz's are prone to running poorly when u mess with the intake plumbing.