Winch or Front Diff Locker?

[JimmyTheHuman]

I am about to go shopping for bits for my NM Pajero. Its used for 80% road and kids to school and 20% camping, getting to trailriding and soon to be som northern treks.

we are interested in touring, not rock climbing or mud bashing. I was going to buy Dueler ATs, not MTs.

I am not sure i can afford both winch and a front locker, and i hope i wont ever need either - but to avoid being stuck far away with my family without help i want to get one.

Purely to help me not be stuck out bush perspective, should i get winch or locker?

[mrw82]

a winch is definately a better option if you plan on going bush alone. but make sure you have all the gear to go with it (extension straps, tree trunk protectors, snatch block, shackles, dampner etc.) and make sure you know how to use them before you go bush.

A locker is great in the fact that it will get you further, but it may well get you further into trouble.

[oldmate]

Winch because you should never go bush without adequate recovery equiptment. If you're happy to do some manual labor then get the locker, but also get a hilift (which works as a handwinch) plenty of rope and chain.

But I can guarintee after handwinching out a stuck truck you'd have wished you got the winch instead of a locker!

[PeowPeow]

go the winch, I just got a locker installed and I'm thinking this is going to get me into trouble. had the winch first, never used it but now I got the locker I'm thinking only one winch isn't going to work

If you learn to drive unlocked it'll be better than being lazy and just flicking the switch for the locker anyways, being a good driver is a way better investment than being lazy and just flicking a switch

but if you can get both why not (I know you mentioned that you can't afford both, but auto's arnt that bad, plus ifs needs one I believe)

ash

[Ruffy]

Definitely get the winch first.. The locker will only get you further into trouble...
The locker will only help you in some situations, the winch will recover you from many...


Good luck and enjoy..
Dan

[bogged]

What accessories do you currently have?

There are probably other things you would go before either of them.

[Gwagensteve]

I used to have an electric winch and I think, like a locker, they lead to a false sense of security- you drive up to obstacles looking for the winch point.

Personally, I never go 4WDing alone, I have a capable car, and a pretty much never do "point a to point b" driving - i.e I'm not fussed if I have to go another way.

Really, you need to be driving with other cars (Ideally a club). That's basic safety. Once you do that, what modifications you do to your car will be based on the standard of the vehicles you are driving with and the terrain you choose to cover. You might find that a front locker is more useful to prevent you needing to spend so much time getting dragged up stuff on a winch that the other cars you wheel with all drove.

PS I've driven twin locked for about 15 years and I'd have to say that twin lockers get me out of as much trouble as they get me in to. I took the winch off the front of my car... funnily enough... about 14 years ago.

Steve.

[alien]

personally, and having a rear locker - i'd prefer a front locker to a winch... especially if your plan is touring. The locker is a more versatile tool to have at your disposal, and you can buy a hand winch quite cheap which will weight less but still do exactly the same job with the advantage of being able to be used on either the front or back of the car. In a touring situation you can afford the extra time a hand winch would take as well, so thats also a non-issue.

[Braudy]

I would get a winch. At least with a winch you can use it as a tool for other things , not just recovery.

A locker can only really be used for one thing.

Just my 2c

Braudy

[beinthemud]

Very much winch first if you go 4wheeling by your self .if you go in a group id go locker

[T_Diesel]

Very much winch first if you go 4wheeling by your self .if you go in a group id go locker

I'd get a fridge, storage solution, decent rubber, suspension upgrade, dual batteries before either.

[beinthemud]

Very much winch first if you go 4wheeling by your self .if you go in a group id go locker

I'd get a fridge, storage solution, decent rubber, suspension upgrade, dual batteries before either.

Well assuming he already has suspension and tyres ,Then a winch and or lockers would be next .Id like to see your fridge and storage space get you out when your stuck in the middle of nowhere

[B.D.R]

I'd be getting Lockers before even thinking of a Winch.

There's no reason in MY opinion to have a Winch BEFORE having Lockers, there's no need for it, as you wont be able to get to far with out them .

Hand winch is a good bit of Kit, and will get you out of trouble, and is a LOT cheaper than either option

[beinthemud]

I'd be getting Lockers before even thinking of a Winch.

There's no reason in MY opinion to have a Winch BEFORE having Lockers, there's no need for it, as you wont be able to get to far with out them .

Hand winch is a good bit of Kit, and will get you out of trouble, and is a LOT cheaper than either option

I tought about a hand winch then thought fark all that effort i prefer plug and play

[T_Diesel]

Very much winch first if you go 4wheeling by your self .if you go in a group id go locker

I'd get a fridge, storage solution, decent rubber, suspension upgrade, dual batteries before either.

Well assuming he already has suspension and tyres ,Then a winch and or lockers would be next .Id like to see your fridge and storage space get you out when your stuck in the middle of nowhere

You're more than welcome to check it out any time. I use my fridge and drawer system a hell of a lot more than I use my winch or lockers.

[JimmyTheHuman]

Oohhh. Loads of tips in here, thanks very much.

yes i am getting lift, tyres, cargo barrier and bullbar and winch at the same time. Drawers i am making my own use rack mounted server rails for the fridge slider.

So yeah, i wasnt planning on taking a stock car and adding a winch or a locker and crossing the simson...

[-Scott-]

FWIW, I've done some single vehicle touring in a Pajero with a front locker (and rear LSD). Rarely needed it, but on those occasions when I did need it, I drove something which I might otherwise have needed to winch.

Drive it - don't drag it.

Seriously - get the front locker first, but only switch it on when you're sure you need it. As others have said, learn to drive unlocked.

Story: Australia Day LWE I was in the High Country with the Pajero Club of Victoria. Eight vehicles did Blue Rag, including a showroom stock Challenger (straight from the press fleet), a basically stock Prado and a couple of near stock Pajeros. No problems - everybody straight up the first time.

About the same time (same time of year, same track conditions) a journalist for a 4wd magazine was there in his twin locked Hilux. He didn't drive the last bit because there was nowhere to hook his winch to. He's got all the gear, but apparently can't drive.

In my opinion, too many people break out the winch too early.

What to do?

Get the front locker & a hand winch.

With the front locker, your vehicle will be incredibly more capable, so you won't need to winch as often (in 9 years I've never been winched - snatched a few times, but not since the front locker).

With only a hand winch, you won't be so quick to stop driving and start dragging, but you have that insurance when you really need it.

Don't get a high lift. You don't have suitable jacking points on a Pajero, so you'd only be buying a crappy hand winch.

[-Scott-]

Drawers i am making my own use rack mounted server rails for the fridge slider.

Do you know the rating of the rails? I built a fridge slide using Hafele rails rated to 160kg - 4 years later they haven't failed (yet). How much does a rack mount server weigh?

[JimmyTheHuman]

Drawers i am making my own use rack mounted server rails for the fridge slider.

Do you know the rating of the rails? I built a fridge slide using Hafele rails rated to 160kg - 4 years later they haven't failed (yet). How much does a rack mount server weigh?

60-100kg.

My fridge isnt gonna weigh more than that.

[JimmyTheHuman]

Thanks Scott, i hear what you're saying. Its not an easy decision, but i am leaning towards a winch, if i really feel i need a locker after a trip or two i will get one.

I need to decide by the end of the week.

[Ruffy]

I'd be getting Lockers before even thinking of a Winch.

There's no reason in MY opinion to have a Winch BEFORE having Lockers, there's no need for it, as you wont be able to get to far with out them .

Hand winch is a good bit of Kit, and will get you out of trouble, and is a LOT cheaper than either option

Hand winches are carp.
Considering if you already have a bar you can get a decent winch fitted for around a grand why would you bother with something that weighs JUST AS MUCH, you need to find room to store it, it's hard work, it's rated WELL below and electric winch and requires two people for it's best effect..
The man mentions he wants to go touring, i'm not sure how many people who suggest a locker have been touring but a locker isn't of any great assistance in sand or loamy mud.

[-Scott-]

The OP appears to have made his decision, which is fair enough. However, I feel rebuttal is required.

The man mentions he wants to go touring, i'm not sure how many people who suggest a locker have been touring but a locker isn't of any great assistance in sand or loamy mud.

I'm not a hard-core wheeler - I have my 4wd to go touring, and it's set up to make sure I can get to wherever I'm going without breaking anything.

So far so good.

Sand? Fraser, Murray Mouth, Simpson Desert & Beachport dunes. Haven't needed to be recovered, and don't think I really needed the diff lock, either. Pajeros have a good LSD.

Mud? I avoid it - not that I see much of it anyway...

why would you bother with something that weighs JUST AS MUCH, you need to find room to store it, it's hard work, it's rated WELL below and electric winch and requires two people for it's best effect..

The electric winch hangs in front of the front axle, so leverage increases the load on front suspension & steering. A hand winch can be stored somewhere low & central, for better weight distribution.

We won't go into the hassles of battery selection, cable sizes, dual battery management, keeping the battery charged during winching etc...

Those advocating buying the winch are focusing on getting stuck.

Not everybody gets stuck while touring.

I will acknowledge I have limited experience in Victorian conditions. Perhaps a winch is an essential touring companion in Victoria?

[nabstud]

Depends on your definition of touring. Some stick to the blacktop, some go to hardcore 4x4 tracks. I had the same choice to make last year. I went for the front locker as I like to do some more challenging tracks, and that happens more often than touring to anywhere that I might get stuck. I always go out with at least another 4x4 when 4x4ing so there is always backup.

Almost all of my touring with the missus has very easy 4x4ing if that. Rarely engage 4x4 at all while the missus is in the car.

Twice I have gotten stuck and needed outside help to recover my 4x4. Both times I needed to go backwards, not forwards. A handwinch would have been perfect whereas a front mounted winch would have been no use.

A winch is on the cards for me as I plan to do some solo touring to more remote locations. More than likely a handwinch though.

[bogged]

Almost all of my touring with the missus has very easy 4x4ing if that. Rarely engage 4x4 at all while the missus is in the car..

so thats your definition of touring. So you wouldnt need a locker or winch for your touring.

[Ruffy]

The electric winch hangs in front of the front axle, so leverage increases the load on front suspension & steering. A hand winch can be stored somewhere low & central, for better weight distribution.

We won't go into the hassles of battery selection, cable sizes, dual battery management, keeping the battery charged during winching etc...

Those advocating buying the winch are focusing on getting stuck.

Not everybody gets stuck while touring.

I will acknowledge I have limited experience in Victorian conditions. Perhaps a winch is an essential touring companion in Victoria?

No need for dual batteries, no need for special batteries, the battery will recharge itself after the winch is completed. I'd suggest for a touring application we'd be talking about a short/ish winch to recover from a sticky situation, not a haul 80 metres up a hill.

Granted the weight of an electric winch is not in the most ideal location but it's also far from the least practicle location.

I don't think we're being state specific but if we were i'd say if you're going to be in the high country i'd go a locker for sure. Most other areas a winch.

[JimmyTheHuman]

well. After a long chat with the MoF i am getting a winch for now. I could afford a locker as well, but i really want to get out there and do a few tours...if i really get to a place where i really really feel like i want a locker i will get one...but i will wait until i really feel convinced i need one.

Plenty of folks have toured this country in much lesser cars than i will have.

So now the decision is for 9000lb with more rope or 12000lb with less rope. I will talk to the installer about second battery etc, i will be keen on one for fridge etc so might just get it done now and be done with.

thanks for the comments, super valuable!

[coxy321]

I vote winch.

- If you buy a locker, you can still get stuck
- If you get stuck without lockers, at least you can still winch out.

A winch can also save youe vehicle from some awkward scenarios, whereas lockers won't do much if your car's crossed up and teetering on two wheels.

[cpt-mud]

winch first, as it will get you out of trouble, where a locker can get you further into trouble

[-Scott-]

Alcohol fuelled random musings:

This concept of "winch first / lockers later" - does it work?

Get stopped, break out the winch, continue.

Do you ever learn to drive the obstacle, or do you simply drag it?

Once you become accustomed to winching everywhere do you ever feel the need to buy a locker? "It's OK, I can always winch it".

Who gets to their campsite first? The bloke with the winch, or the bloke with the locker?

For the hardcore guys who go wheeling for the challenge, sure - get the winch. If I lived in Melbourne I'd probably have one.

For the tourer (like me) - what would you rather do? Engage the front locker & drive out, or break out the winch? What about the ground anchor? Will you make it to Blue Rag Trig?

As a tourer, I've engaged the front locker and got where I want to go. I don't have a winch - what have I missed?

[-Scott-]

winch first, as it will get you out of trouble, where a locker can get you further into trouble

So you winch yourself backwards? How can you be sure that forwards is "out of trouble"?

Old skool says: drive in in 2wd - drive back out in 4wd. I've heard other experienced 4wders say that lockers are for driving back - not driving forward.

Perhaps a winch will only drag you into more trouble?