1HD-FTE Power Figures

[natharmstrong88]

I am looking to go a conversion into my current 1HZ powered 105 series. The 1HD-FTE, while i know is very expensive to buy, is lookin like the easiest candidate for the swap, but my other alternative would have to be an LS2 6.0L, the engines are cheaper but there would be more cost getting it fitted and wired up etc. But i just wanted to check, does anyone know what the boundaries are powerwise for the 1hd-fte? What does anyone think about the two options too, im open for suggestions! haha

Nathan

[Z()LTAN]

the 1hdfte will be more expensive to install than the 6L mate...

[oldmate]

a 'chipped' hunjy claims about 175kw (at the fly) compared to a stock 150.

I'd think 200 is reasonable keeping reliability in mind however i could see one doing 250-300 pushing it and with some work done

since a holden v8 does that or close to it stock it's definately the cheap way to get the power (which is usually the way)

Something else for you to consider is your gearbox. (if it's a manual) it won't last with either the turbo diesel or v8. You can often pick up a complete engine-gearbox-transfer from a 78 series turbo diesel, but with the v8 you will need to source the gearbox too (adds up $$)

[thrashlux]

a 'chipped' hunjy claims about 175kw (at the fly) compared to a stock 150.

I'd think 200 is reasonable keeping reliability in mind however i could see one doing 250-300 pushing it and with some work done

since a holden v8 does that or close to it stock it's definately the cheap way to get the power (which is usually the way)

Something else for you to consider is your gearbox. (if it's a manual) it won't last with either the turbo diesel or v8. You can often pick up a complete engine-gearbox-transfer from a 78 series turbo diesel, but with the v8 you will need to source the gearbox too (adds up $$)

78 series wont put out that much power as the boost cut in the computer wont alow it
100 series engine is a diferent animal you can just put a petrol box in from 100 series with an 80 series 1hz belhousing

[oldmate]

a 'chipped' hunjy claims about 175kw (at the fly) compared to a stock 150.

I'd think 200 is reasonable keeping reliability in mind however i could see one doing 250-300 pushing it and with some work done

since a holden v8 does that or close to it stock it's definately the cheap way to get the power (which is usually the way)

Something else for you to consider is your gearbox. (if it's a manual) it won't last with either the turbo diesel or v8. You can often pick up a complete engine-gearbox-transfer from a 78 series turbo diesel, but with the v8 you will need to source the gearbox too (adds up $$)

78 series wont put out that much power as the boost cut in the computer wont alow it
100 series engine is a diferent animal you can just put a petrol box in from 100 series with an 80 series 1hz belhousing

i guess it's worth pointing out that the 78 is only 125ish kw due to no intercooler. 150 is for the 100. I assume the chip you install for the power gets around that boost cut out issue Best to talk to the chip experts there.

[thrashlux]

a 'chipped' hunjy claims about 175kw (at the fly) compared to a stock 150.

I'd think 200 is reasonable keeping reliability in mind however i could see one doing 250-300 pushing it and with some work done

since a holden v8 does that or close to it stock it's definately the cheap way to get the power (which is usually the way)

Something else for you to consider is your gearbox. (if it's a manual) it won't last with either the turbo diesel or v8. You can often pick up a complete engine-gearbox-transfer from a 78 series turbo diesel, but with the v8 you will need to source the gearbox too (adds up $$)

78 series wont put out that much power as the boost cut in the computer wont alow it
100 series engine is a diferent animal you can just put a petrol box in from 100 series with an 80 series 1hz belhousing

i guess it's worth pointing out that the 78 is only 125ish kw due to no intercooler. 150 is for the 100. I assume the chip you install for the power gets around that boost cut out issue Best to talk to the chip experts there.

thats the problem the chips cant get around the boost cut all they can do is do like a fuel cut defender type extrapelation of the exsisting curve fuel cut is about 16 psi for 79 series
the std boost for 100 series is 16.5 psi
and goes to about 20 before cut
also fuel pump and turbo are diferent also pistons are different in 100 series
many diferences not just the lack of intercooler
its sad i have been through all this and done 3 fte conversions

[fester2au]

a 'chipped' hunjy claims about 175kw (at the fly) compared to a stock 150.

I'd think 200 is reasonable keeping reliability in mind however i could see one doing 250-300 pushing it and with some work done

since a holden v8 does that or close to it stock it's definately the cheap way to get the power (which is usually the way)

Something else for you to consider is your gearbox. (if it's a manual) it won't last with either the turbo diesel or v8. You can often pick up a complete engine-gearbox-transfer from a 78 series turbo diesel, but with the v8 you will need to source the gearbox too (adds up $$)

78 series wont put out that much power as the boost cut in the computer wont alow it
100 series engine is a diferent animal you can just put a petrol box in from 100 series with an 80 series 1hz belhousing

i guess it's worth pointing out that the 78 is only 125ish kw due to no intercooler. 150 is for the 100. I assume the chip you install for the power gets around that boost cut out issue Best to talk to the chip experts there.

thats the problem the chips cant get around the boost cut all they can do is do like a fuel cut defender type extrapelation of the exsisting curve fuel cut is about 16 psi for 79 series
the std boost for 100 series is 16.5 psi
and goes to about 20 before cut
also fuel pump and turbo are diferent also pistons are different in 100 series
many diferences not just the lack of intercooler
its sad i have been through all this and done 3 fte conversions

Injectors too are apparently different. So we need to modify the MAP sensor output voltage in the 79 to tweak the boost that little bit more or bleed boost out of the hose running into the MAP sensor which woul dbe harder to control as precisely.

I've been wondering if the signal from the MAP could be clipped to show the ECU less boost to get around any fuel cut but then have the DP Chip or similar adjusted to compensate for the drop in fueling that the computer would be giving compared to actual boost.

[thrashlux]

yeah thats what u do in a petrol efi car to get aroundd fuel cut (boost cut)
its still better to get something that is mapped all the way or further than to trick and fudge the system
but if u already have one like fester its the best bet
u can clip the boost figure in the map signal they are called a fuel cut defender
but then u need to increase the fuel in the rest of the band to compensate for the lack of increase after the signal is clipped

[badger]

I keep reading all this info about how the ute and wagon motors have different pistons, injectors etc but ive seen a few side by side and in pieces and i fail to see the differences.

If anyone has any true physical proof please show me. Im working on more power for my fte and id love to know.

For what its worth there is a guy with a silver 79 in melbourne thats apparently pushing 300kw with a garrett turbo and lpg injection. its is apparently running a piggy backed 79 computer with standard internals.
Never seen the car myself tho

It is true tho that you cant get huge power with just a piggy backed 79 computer because of the boost cut.
The limit on a wagon however is the pump. wich there isnt many solutions other than lpg to over come that i know of

[badger]

Injectors too are apparently different. So we need to modify the MAP sensor output voltage in the 79 to tweak the boost that little bit more or bleed boost out of the hose running into the MAP sensor which woul dbe harder to control as precisely.

I've been wondering if the signal from the MAP could be clipped to show the ECU less boost to get around any fuel cut but then have the DP Chip or similar adjusted to compensate for the drop in fueling that the computer would be giving compared to actual boost.


Only problem with this is the "DP chip" only allows a % fuel increase from the factory map. There is a maximum amount of fuel the computer will deliver for a set boost/ load/ throttle position. Because you have tricked the computer into thinking it has less boost you have reduced the computers maximum fuel delivery so to speak and have negated half the effect of tricking it into thinking it has less boost.
Unless you can get a piggy back with "unlimited" fuel adjustment

Hope that makes sence.............. i know what im trying to say............ you will get gains but not as much as could be gained


Also alot bigger gains could be had if we could get more control over the fuel timing of the motor.

[thrashlux]

it makes sense to me
basically its easier to get more power from the 100 series set up
because u can do all that to the 100 series as well and that will give you even more power

Ie clip the signal etc up the fuel across tehwhole band etc etc but at say 25 psi instead of 20 because the map extends further up the boost range to start with

[fester2au]

I must admit firstly that my info on the differences only comes from talking to industry turbo guys like MTQ etc and I've heard it from a couple of sources that "should" have far more knowledge than me so I can onyl go by what they say.

I had asked Toyota if the ECU could be reflashed and if the ute could be flashed to the wagon tune but that appears not an option.

My thoughts on the boost cut defender issue are very simple and are based on the idea that in reality most of the chips on the market are just as simple and are not really mapped as our petrol bretheron would talk. I know (or understand )the DP Chip for arguement that I have merely has an increased fueling pecentage that I expect would be linear across the entire factory map. I also understand it can be retuned by the dealers and I expect that would mean they just have the ability to up the persentage further. If they can tune properly I'd love to know.

Anyway if I clip the boost signal one way or another then it would crudely be across the entire boost/load range and I guess would be pretty linear if you just drop some voltage out of it. So this affects the factory fueling across the board to be low, but the DP Chip which is working outside the factory mapping by just tweaking the spill valve to a percentaqge can be tweaked further to compensate.

The big issue here for me seems to be the crudeness of this whole process and how much hit and miss it would be and therefore how risky to the life of the engine.

Mind you in my case (ute engine) for what I do I'm not really chasing big numbers but I would like to grab a bit of the 100's power and maybe play with my boost up around 17 psi and see what it's like.

[natharmstrong88]

Thats a lot of good info fellas, thanks, I reckon I'm pretty set on the 1hdfte. It'll be a while before i have the cash to get my hands on one, but it sounds like the 100 series version is the way to go. Is the turbo boost on these motors electronically controlled? Or do they still rely on a mechanical waste gate? If they're electronic, would fitting a mechanical garrett turbo for example fix the problem of boost cut off? I'd be happy to achieve 200kw or a bit over. I would have thought that would be pretty achievable with a big intercooler, 'free as they come' exhaust and a chip? What do you fellas think?

[thrashlux]

Is the turbo boost on these motors electronically controlled? Or do they still rely on a mechanical waste gate? If they're electronic, would fitting a mechanical garrett turbo for example fix the problem of boost cut off?

the boost is controlled by a mechanical wastegate its set at about 11 for the ute and 16.5 for the 100 series
the problem is not obtaining the boost but making the engine still run at that high boost due to the size of the map in the computer and self protection

the fuel cut or boost cut is the point at which the computer says game over due to a higher than normal boost pressure it then cuts fuel to the engine to protect its self

[natharmstrong88]

So, in theory, chipping it would allow more fuel, therefore allow the engine to still produce power with higher boost pressures?

[natharmstrong88]

And also, how strong are these engines? Would they handle much more than 20 psi of boost? Cos i know the 1HZ's have a weak bottom end, as they only have two bolt mains. Do the 1hdfte's have 4 bolt mains?

[badger]

And also, how strong are these engines? Would they handle much more than 20 psi of boost? Cos i know the 1HZ's have a weak bottom end, as they only have two bolt mains. Do the 1hdfte's have 4 bolt mains?

The fte is arguably the strongest diesel toyota makes. and will happily handle 200kw.
The statement you made about the 1hz is not completely true. the late model 1hz's share a very similar bottom end to the fte, with the nitrided crank etc. Your 100 will have this motor ( i know of a few of them here in bris reliably making over 200hp at the treads... approx 200kw)