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engine and gearbox choice for hotrod truck
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Posts: 3725
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:45 pm
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Location: Blue Mountains, or on a rig somewhere in bumf*ck idaho
engine and gearbox choice for hotrod truck
I've now purchased a 46 chev truck, it's nearly 3 tonne tare and about 8 tonne gross. I'll be using it (once restored) to haul my truck around the country as it gets more and more unroadworthy and also to just cruise and get away from it all.
Now i'm looking at engine options and i have to toss up whether to go large capacity V8 petrol, medium to large capacity jap diesel six (5-7 litre), GM two stroke diesel or a late model GM V8 diesel.
So i'm looking at people opinions on what is going to be most appropriate taking into account fuel usage, ability to actually pull that kind of weight without having to continually slow down on the hills on the highway, sheer fun factor, cost and longevity of the motor with that kind of load
So
Petrol V8 - I'm thinking 6 litre late model holden motor or larger perhaps. How will it go pulling 8 tonne? Just how thirsty is it likely to be? Will i save much by going straight gas and putting two dirty great tanks on it and what kind of mileage can i expect from gas? I've been told of an acquaintance who has bought a 6L crate motor for 4k from holden and is just sourcing prices for the accessories.
Jap diesel six from a hino or similar - Expensive initially (over 6 grand for a recoed old model motor up to whatever you want to pay for a later one), definately able to pull the truck and turboed should be able to stay on or close to 100 on the highway even loaded. Probably not so much yee hah factor or horn sounding, fuel usage? is it going to be that much better than a V8? Any brand suggestions to use or stay away from?
GM two stroke Diesel - Sounds horny as hell, probably a little thirstier than a diesel six, loves to be flogged mercilessly and gets good HP. But doesn't like to be just putted about and is a very heavy motor.
Late model GM diesel V8 - Great HP but lots of electrickery and $$$
So what are people thoughts
Also on gearboxes.
If i got a GM or jap motor with an SAE bellhousing then i could use a roadranger eaton box. Would i regret using a proper commercial box as i continually go up and down double clutching gears or is it not that bad, a question for the truckies out there.
I'd prefer to not have an auto box as i'll probably still be running drum brakes on the front and i want some engine braking ability.
Now i'm looking at engine options and i have to toss up whether to go large capacity V8 petrol, medium to large capacity jap diesel six (5-7 litre), GM two stroke diesel or a late model GM V8 diesel.
So i'm looking at people opinions on what is going to be most appropriate taking into account fuel usage, ability to actually pull that kind of weight without having to continually slow down on the hills on the highway, sheer fun factor, cost and longevity of the motor with that kind of load
So
Petrol V8 - I'm thinking 6 litre late model holden motor or larger perhaps. How will it go pulling 8 tonne? Just how thirsty is it likely to be? Will i save much by going straight gas and putting two dirty great tanks on it and what kind of mileage can i expect from gas? I've been told of an acquaintance who has bought a 6L crate motor for 4k from holden and is just sourcing prices for the accessories.
Jap diesel six from a hino or similar - Expensive initially (over 6 grand for a recoed old model motor up to whatever you want to pay for a later one), definately able to pull the truck and turboed should be able to stay on or close to 100 on the highway even loaded. Probably not so much yee hah factor or horn sounding, fuel usage? is it going to be that much better than a V8? Any brand suggestions to use or stay away from?
GM two stroke Diesel - Sounds horny as hell, probably a little thirstier than a diesel six, loves to be flogged mercilessly and gets good HP. But doesn't like to be just putted about and is a very heavy motor.
Late model GM diesel V8 - Great HP but lots of electrickery and $$$
So what are people thoughts
Also on gearboxes.
If i got a GM or jap motor with an SAE bellhousing then i could use a roadranger eaton box. Would i regret using a proper commercial box as i continually go up and down double clutching gears or is it not that bad, a question for the truckies out there.
I'd prefer to not have an auto box as i'll probably still be running drum brakes on the front and i want some engine braking ability.
http://www.populationparty.org.au/
The jap diesel will give the best fuel economy and the only other I would consider is the Chev duramax (but will be thirstier than the jap diesel) as the petrols will be thirsty towing that sort of wieght.
The Chev we have at work (08 with the 6.6 duramax) gets about 22L/100km towing a 4.5 tonne van on the highway
The Chev we have at work (08 with the 6.6 duramax) gets about 22L/100km towing a 4.5 tonne van on the highway
I have a 1978 4.4 Leyland Terrier (petrol) in the same weight range.
Unloaded I get about 14 mpg, with a best of 17mpg.
Full loaded (7.8 t) about 6mpg, & up to 9 on a good road.
Have spoken to a bloke with the same jigger on gas and he gets about the same figures, - petrol or gas.
I'd be looking for a diesel ... V8 for preference but Isuzu turbo six will give you plenty satisfaction.
MUCH help can be found here ... >> http://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/YaBB.pl
Unloaded I get about 14 mpg, with a best of 17mpg.
Full loaded (7.8 t) about 6mpg, & up to 9 on a good road.
Have spoken to a bloke with the same jigger on gas and he gets about the same figures, - petrol or gas.
I'd be looking for a diesel ... V8 for preference but Isuzu turbo six will give you plenty satisfaction.
MUCH help can be found here ... >> http://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/YaBB.pl
'03 Mazda Bravo Plus
'80 Datto 720 Ute
'77 Leyland Terrier Truck ... yes a real truck
'80 Datto 720 Ute
'77 Leyland Terrier Truck ... yes a real truck
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cheers all
I've been to HCVC.com and it's a great site. I will ask there too but they don't seem to like rodders much
Bogged, if i could get a packard straight 8 into it i might but by christ it'd be thirsty
Has anyone ever heard a large jap diesel with a straight thru exhaust after the turbo? Do they sound less, well, truckish and more like a warmed over diesel like landcruiser and patrol diesels do?
I've been to HCVC.com and it's a great site. I will ask there too but they don't seem to like rodders much
Bogged, if i could get a packard straight 8 into it i might but by christ it'd be thirsty
Has anyone ever heard a large jap diesel with a straight thru exhaust after the turbo? Do they sound less, well, truckish and more like a warmed over diesel like landcruiser and patrol diesels do?
http://www.populationparty.org.au/
Milo's truck is going to look so sweet, it already looks awesome as is! It's styling NEEDS big block gassed V8 goodness IMO, but might be exxy to run!
Any new BIG turbo diesel should suit, but cost to set up, it's a hard one. I saw a brand new F550 (yes, only one in Aus I think, it was 2 weeks old with full RHD conversion) over christmas. It was towing a full tri-axle trailer (about the size of a semi taught liner) camperhome, the combination should easily be over the weight range you are talking about. It took off like it was empty when he left, the big powerstroke twin turbo in it was so quiet too....
Any new BIG turbo diesel should suit, but cost to set up, it's a hard one. I saw a brand new F550 (yes, only one in Aus I think, it was 2 weeks old with full RHD conversion) over christmas. It was towing a full tri-axle trailer (about the size of a semi taught liner) camperhome, the combination should easily be over the weight range you are talking about. It took off like it was empty when he left, the big powerstroke twin turbo in it was so quiet too....
Lovin the FZJ105-T, bling by Ryano
I fthe money stretches I'd be looking at the 8 litre turbo diesel V8 GM plus matching Allison auto box, think same era and lineage as Duramax but not sure if the 8 litre is classed as a Duramax. Think it comes in the same age trucks but the big 3500's.
Or the 6 litre Dodge Cummins turbo diesel only because they seem to out out big power in the states but not sure of what it takes to make that power or how reliable they are at that power.
If you went petrol I'd think the 6 litre versions would be marginal, you'd have to go 500 ci big block either GM or Mopar. 500ci with supercharger would be sweet if you could keep gas up to it.
Or the 6 litre Dodge Cummins turbo diesel only because they seem to out out big power in the states but not sure of what it takes to make that power or how reliable they are at that power.
If you went petrol I'd think the 6 litre versions would be marginal, you'd have to go 500 ci big block either GM or Mopar. 500ci with supercharger would be sweet if you could keep gas up to it.
Straight 8, 2 stroke birdfrightner..... come on gentlemen... stop playin' with it.... Isuzu or similar straight turbo 6 with the gearbox that comes with them as a unit...also if you want to impress get it from a 4wd truck and swap the lot... you WILL have to go to discs unless you want your widow/kids to get the vehicle when you die, how do you think some drums that were flatout pulling up the original load will go with twice that, so probably the square of the load on them, wake up....... if you want more HP, up the boost and fuel.... it will do the job easily and relatively economically....
Show me the money..SHOW ME THE MONEY
I would say duramax, they are pricey, but endless performance upgrades available.
Don't worry about the electrics, I will soon have available a standalone harness to suit that will make it very simple.
Petrol V8 i think will be very hard on fuel pulling that weight.
Steve
Don't worry about the electrics, I will soon have available a standalone harness to suit that will make it very simple.
Petrol V8 i think will be very hard on fuel pulling that weight.
Steve
KILLA KUSTOM KABLES
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I saw that same truck going through Grafton when I was there......-Nemesis- wrote:Milo's truck is going to look so sweet, it already looks awesome as is! It's styling NEEDS big block gassed V8 goodness IMO, but might be exxy to run!
Any new BIG turbo diesel should suit, but cost to set up, it's a hard one. I saw a brand new F550 (yes, only one in Aus I think, it was 2 weeks old with full RHD conversion) over christmas. It was towing a full tri-axle trailer (about the size of a semi taught liner) camperhome, the combination should easily be over the weight range you are talking about. It took off like it was empty when he left, the big powerstroke twin turbo in it was so quiet too....
I recon go with a Jap diesel and gearbox combo out of a wreck.
Isuzu or Hino..... I like the Hino's better these days but either are unbeatable
Harb
http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/shed/index.php?id=2244&im=1
http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/shed/index.php?id=2244&im=1
What a coincidence Nice self generating recommendation there, although I do agree with you.killalux wrote:I would say duramax, they are pricey, but endless performance upgrades available.
Don't worry about the electrics, I will soon have available a standalone harness to suit that will make it very simple.
Petrol V8 i think will be very hard on fuel pulling that weight.
Steve
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These are the drums that came with the truck designed to pull up 8 tonne. Drums are actually fine and pull up plenty of weight but suffer fade due to heat build up over PROLONGED braking. So therefore not so good in a race car but fine in a truck where it's pretty likely you'll have engine braking for prolonged descents. I don't mind the idea of discs, but if you can find a donor with a solid I beam axle with the same width, stub drop, and spring pad width and bolt pattern as the original 46 jelly bean rims then by all means let me know. I've driven air over hydraulic drum brakes that will put you through the windscreen, and there's still plenty of larger commercial vehicles still running drums.RED60 wrote:Straight 8, 2 stroke birdfrightner..... come on gentlemen... stop playin' with it.... Isuzu or similar straight turbo 6 with the gearbox that comes with them as a unit...also if you want to impress get it from a 4wd truck and swap the lot... you WILL have to go to discs unless you want your widow/kids to get the vehicle when you die, how do you think some drums that were flatout pulling up the original load will go with twice that, so probably the square of the load on them, wake up....... if you want more HP, up the boost and fuel.... it will do the job easily and relatively economically....
I had thought of 4wd driving the front end but really, i'm not using it for that and it's extra unsprung weight, cost and complexity. What's wrong with jimmy diesels by the way? sound absolutely farking horn. But you're right, for parts availability and ease i think the jap option is the way to go.
But from what i've seen i'll be paying minimum 10 grand for a second hand runner donk/box combo of unknown quality.
http://www.populationparty.org.au/
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I've been told to stay away from cat due to running and servicing costs. Can anyone here elaborate?jaztaz wrote:Caterpillar 3208 (N/A 175hp, turbo 210-250hp) & 6spd Spicer or 9 spd Road Ranger, although IMO an Allison 6spd auto would be great.
What do people think of a cummins 6BT intercooled?
We've got a vote for isuzu or HINO, What do people think of Mitsubishi or UD engines?
http://www.populationparty.org.au/
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engine and gearbox
392 v 8 and allison auto out of a 1982 international fire truck. pick up a truck for $5500 with only 180000 ks from caboolture,qld.stick it on impco gas gear and get 5ks per litre on gas at approx 55 c per litre.shitloads of torque up to 4000 rpm.when they designed and tested these motors they ran them at full rpm for 1000 hours......smooth as.
Posts: 3725
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:45 pm
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Location: Blue Mountains, or on a rig somewhere in bumf*ck idaho
Posts: 3725
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:45 pm
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Blue Mountains, or on a rig somewhere in bumf*ck idaho
Re: engine and gearbox
Who made the 392's, how hard are they to get parts for and what size rad would it need to keep it cool?265grunter wrote:392 v 8 and allison auto out of a 1982 international fire truck. pick up a truck for $5500 with only 180000 ks from caboolture,qld.stick it on impco gas gear and get 5ks per litre on gas at approx 55 c per litre.shitloads of torque up to 4000 rpm.when they designed and tested these motors they ran them at full rpm for 1000 hours......smooth as.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7368eCCw ... re=related
got wood?
http://www.populationparty.org.au/
Re: engine and gearbox
Inter made the 392's and a 345 V8.rockcrawler31 wrote:Who made the 392's, how hard are they to get parts for and what size rad would it need to keep it cool?265grunter wrote:392 v 8 and allison auto out of a 1982 international fire truck. pick up a truck for $5500 with only 180000 ks from caboolture,qld.stick it on impco gas gear and get 5ks per litre on gas at approx 55 c per litre.shitloads of torque up to 4000 rpm.when they designed and tested these motors they ran them at full rpm for 1000 hours......smooth as.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7368eCCw ... re=related
got wood?
Saddle up tonto, its the not so loanrangie! . 98 TDI DISCO lightly modded with more to come.
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Don't forget the T on the end. A 4BD1T has 50% more kw than a 4BD1.rockcrawler31 wrote:I remember they 4BD1's in the army rovers, very torquey and bulletproof, but gutless as hell. I would hope the 6BD's are better per litre.Loanrangie wrote:Isuzu 6BD1T or similar .
6HK1 would be nice but not sure how common or cheap they are but if you could find a damaged isuzu truck you'd be right.
Make this guy an offer: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Isuzu-6HK1_W0QQitemZ220553379395
AFAIK this motor can be tuned for anything from 200 to 300 hp and over 800 lb/ft.
This is not legal advice.
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