qld-infringement notice for 33" tyres?

[DAZZ]

I would say approach it from another angle.

Go to a solicitor and have a bit of paperwork prepared that states that you wish to drive on some of QLD's gazetted roads, namely the ones across the Simpson desert. Due to the constraints placed on the allowable vehicle modifications regarding tyre/rim size, allowable lifts, increases in track width, etc., you have been advised to rerquest that the QLD Government (QLD Transport) accept liability for any death or disablement caused by the limited capacity of a standard 4WD with allowable modifications to traverse their gazetted road (maintained by QLD Transport).

Could be an interesting angle, they can't stop you travelling on any road in QLD, except by closing the road, and you have a right to go wherever you want for whatever reason you want..........

Ormeau has gazetted roads..... that is an interesting angle... anyone a solicitor?????? QLDGAL works for a solicitor - cant she do some extra curriculum research for us all!!

The gov'ment will just close more tracks. With a valid (to them) excuse!!!
Vehicle roadworthy requirments are only gunna get tougher!!!!

[r0ck_m0nkey]

For example, you are allowed to replace your diff/axle/brakes. Can you run the size of the tyre designed for that diff/axle/brake combo or only what was original in the vehicle? Would be interesting to see a court ruling on this! The guys with mog portals would be sweet

Now that would be sweet cos most of the patrol drivetran is out of truck stuff. So no doubt they run bigger tyres. Also means that on the a petrol GQ (or turbo landcruiser) you can run a Boat prop for those big bog holes as these motors are used in boats aswell.
(the last bit was a joke but the first bit would be great)

Not exactly the same, but going back a few years, my old man was doing up and modfying an FJ Ute, in amongst all the modifications it ended up with UC Torana Stub Axles and Brakes on the front. The Engineer who dad was consulting with for this build up stated that wheel sizing etc. then all came under the rules of the donor vehicle in which the brakes and stub axles came off, so effectivly UC Torana instead of the FJ. This is in NSW though and was a few years ago.

I would definantly go to an Engineer and discuss this and see what they say about it all with axle swaps in relation to wheel sizes.

[Maggot4x4]

That's why we need the system where and engineer is responsible for ascessing whether modifications are ok or not and then take their word for it. At least the people doing the ascessing will have an idea about what they're looking at.

careful there... being an engineer myself, civil not mechanical, providing advice from a professional aspect is dangerous, because you are still liable for that advice.

I dont generally give advice over the phone at all anymore.

Liability is a very sticky area for all at the moment. I think that is why there are such strick limits on the increase of tyres and lift kits in Queensland. There is no financial gain to the govt if they allow a modified vehicle on the road but there is an increased possibily of legal action if the vehicle is involved in an accident.

I guess from their side of the fence, why put your neck on the chopping block for no gain?

The bit I don't understand is if we look at California, the most litigious state in the most litigious country in the world, it is legal to have whatever tyre (tire) you want and don’t even require guards.

All they require is that there smog laws are adhered to. Every thing else is up to you and if you cause an accident and get sued, well you chose to drive it like that you take the consequences.

Would people really prefer this system?

If so, what’s the point of just sitting on our arses and whingeing about it. The only we to affect change is to have a united voice.

[Beastmavster]

from QLD modifications booklet...

The overall diameter of the tyre must not vary by more than +15mm or
-26mm.
[[it can be argued that this is for the maximum optional size by the manufacturer...overseas nissan somewhere use a 245x85x16 i think]]

The maximum width is 1.3 times the widest manufacturers optional tyre.
[with front and rear beam axles it is 1.5 times]

The track may be increased by 26mm beyond the max specified by the manufacturer.
[with front and rear beam axles it is 50mm]

shane

It's based on the tyre placard FITTED to the vehicle to meet ADR requirements... not some potential Polish model.


This law really does suck.

Having said that I haven't got in trouble yet for the 31" tyres on the Vitara (up about 4.5" of actual diameter). A lot of people believe it's a combination of bad attitude+ bad cop to really get you in trouble - as people often see 35" tyres on 4bys and they ain't legal on anything here.

They seem more to go for tyres hanging out sidewards than bigger ones.

If you have 7.50R16's listed on your placard that's 31.8" (ie 32") so you can get away with about 32.5-32.6" legally which is the actual diameter of a 33" tyre.

You'll still be done for having them too wide.

[Beastmavster]

a dude i know had a 89 gq that has 29's as standard so he went to 31's no prob but got a 90 or 91 trye placard fom nissan(i think or repco) quoted another guys model id and got it sent to him and replaced the old placard without any notice of year change.

now he needs flares though

I thought all the GQ's had the 31" WIDE WHEEL OPTION listed on their tyre placard and also 7.50R16's.

[ozy1]

I do know what your mods come down to some of the info from the DOnor vehicle, I know im in NSW but i got in touch with an engineer about Puttin GU diffs under a GQ, with my current wheels i have a 20mm increase in track. The max allowable for my car is 25mm. But He said that my car, can be authorised to run GU diffs, which give an increase in track of about 28mm, and my current wheels, which will all up give an increase of 48mm. He also said i can upgrade the breaks aslong as the MAster capacity is the same as whats on the GU's. All in all, there are ways around things like this. Also, the GU has a larger tyre diameter i believe from factory, so can use those specs.

[Brad]

mmm here is a topic that we get to deal with all the time in the buggy world. A few handy hints for you all.

1 - Tyres sizes and variations are not classified as safety issues... what do I mean by this ? well they can not be applied is arrears such as seat belts / child restraints etc etc as long as teh vehicle is already registered.

2 - In Dec 1993 Dept of QLD published a pamphlet called All About Alternative Rims and Tyres .... In it is clearly states in Black and White ...
" 4 Wheel Drive Off-Road Passenger Vehicles

Width - The wheel rim must not exceed the manufacturer's standard minimum wheel rim by more than 51mm, for the particular series. Where the manufactures offers am optional wide wheel rim, the maximum allowable width will be regarded as the width of the optional wide wheel rim, or the width of the standard wheel plus 51mm, whichever is the greatest"

Now you will see it clearly states that the width of the standard wheel plus 51mm, whichever is greatest.

3- Now if you vehicle is made before 12 / 93 it is totally allowable to abide by these rules and have no problems with the police at all. This is the same writing which excludes VW's from having the same size tyres front and rear. I drive a Manx Buggy with 31 x 10 .5'x on the rear and 215 x 75 x 15 on the front. Never had a problem.

I have been pulled over by the Nice Policeman a few times and he even had the hide to defect me on several occasions. I simply walked into Dept of Main Road inspection Station with my defect notice and my photo copy pamphlet and the problem goes away.

In regards to over hang it is not allowed so for that you will need to wear the kick in the ass.

I hope this helps. I have no idea about after 12 / 93 as I don’t own anything that new

I would suggest you track down the actual rules yourself as I have found a lot of people quote stuff incorrectly and believing this may only add to your issues.

[cam]

myself and local 4wd store did some digging around and can see no reason why 33" tyres would be illegal on anything that listed 7.50 16 on tyre placard.well known local tyre dealer also agrees.

we found on average that 7.50r16's are specified by their respective manufactures to measure 819/820 mm o/a diameter. in my case running mtr's, goodyear quote their 33" as having a 830 mm o/a diameter. therefore referencing to qld. transport's +15 mm rule, this leaves approx. 5mm to spare.

if i wasn't so busy at the moment i would take this to court but will pay the $75 and leave at that.

however, next time i will have photocopies of respective tyre specifications and qld. transport modification pages. i am currently running cruiser offset rims but am changing to r.o.h. patrol offset rims this week, which will satisfy all other legal aspects of this horrendous crime also cleaning up other mod's on vehicle, so will argue the point till the cows come home unless someone see's a fatal flaw in our argument.

there was some good comments made in this thread, that highlights what a ridiculous system we have in qld.

[chimpboy]

Dunno about the rest of you but the ongoing (and understandable) confusion about what you can and can't do is annoying as fuck to me.

So I decided to flex my long-disused legal muscles and start digging for myself.

I didn't get very far, but I have a bit of stuff to share. Apologies to those who are already very familiar with this.

The relevant legislation (subordinate legislation - ie regulations) for us is the TRANSPORT OPERATIONS (ROAD USE MANAGEMENT—VEHICLE STANDARDS AND SAFETY) REGULATION 1999 under which "authorised persons" (ie "engineers") are permitted to approve vehicle modifications.

The provision in question goes like this:

30 Approval of modified vehicle

(1) The owner of a modified vehicle on a road must ensure its modification has been approved by an authorised officer or approved person.

Maximum penalty—60 penalty units.

(2) After inspecting a vehicle, an authorised officer or approved person
may approve a modification of the vehicle if, and only if—

(a) the modification complies with one of the following codes of practice approved by the chief executive—

(i) the Code of Practice—Light Vehicles;

(ii) the Code of Practice—Commercial Motor Vehicle Modifications;

(iii) the National Code of Practice—Heavy Vehicle Modifications; or

(b) if the modification is of a kind that is not covered by a code of practice mentioned in paragraph (a)—the modification is also approved by the chief executive.

Maximum penalty—40 penalty units.

(3) If the officer or person approves the modification, the officer or person must—

(a) give a certificate of modification, in the approved form, to the owner; and

(b) ensure a modification plate, in the approved form, that is stamped or engraved with details of the modification, is affixed to a conspicuous part of the vehicle.

Now the National Code of Practice—Heavy Vehicle Modifications (available online) is of little use to us because it relates to vehicles over 4.5 tonnes GVM. I know that engineers use mod codes from this document on mod plates for vehicles like ours, but I am pretty sure this could only be under 2(b), mods approved by the chief executive. That is, it's not under the code of practice itself, it's just using mod codes from it.

I have seen the light vehicle code of practice (available from GoPrint) and it's shite and has little to offer us.

The one thing I haven't seen is the commercial vehicle code of practice. Is anyone familiar with it? If so, I would like to know what vehicles it purports to apply to. It might cover utes. It might cover 4WDs... and if it does, it might be better than the LV CoP.

According to the regs, the CV CoP is "available at the offices of the department at Transport House, Brunswick Street, Fortitude Valley."

Does anyone work/live near there? If so, it would be cool to find out what it costs and snap up a copy.

There is one point worth noting. Unless there are other provisions I've missed (I haven't studied this stuff in detail yet), the "chief executive" cannot override a provision in these codes of practice. He can allow the approval of modifications that aren't covered, but he can't prohibit the approval (by an approved person) of a mod that is covered. Nor, I would say, can he permit the approval of a modification the goes beyond what is covered by a specific item in the code.

I know we have lots of to-ing and fro-ing about what is and isn't allowed in Qld, and it's all a bit ugly. I'd like to nail it down with the written documents themselves.

Anyone wanna help?

Jason

[johnboy]

if i wasn't so busy at the moment i would take this to court but will pay the $75 and leave at that.

quote]

Take it to court it'll be months before they summon you

[auto_eng]

The Heavy vehicle code can be used on light vehicle if there is no code in the light vehicle section to cover the modification.

Eg. chassis modifications. There is no code in the light vehicle code to cover this so the heavy vehicle code can be used.

This doesn't require endoresement from the chief.

[chimpboy]

The Heavy vehicle code can be used on light vehicle if there is no code in the light vehicle section to cover the modification.

Eg. chassis modifications. There is no code in the light vehicle code to cover this so the heavy vehicle code can be used.

This doesn't require endoresement from the chief.

Interesting... because the Code states that it applies to vehicles over 4.5 tons GVM. Still it's very common for regulations to "stretch" a bit in practice.

Do you know if the Commercial Vehicles Code gets used at all, or what it applies to? I'd previously only heard of the light and heavy.

Jason

[auto_eng]

Never heard of the commercial vehicle code of practice. Asked around and no one else had either.

[bad_religion_au]

All ***** until you need them cause you got robbed or beat up. They got a job to do.

Yeah, they shouldnt be pickin on the flavour of the month, but should they ignore you doing 50 in a school zone!!!!!!!!!!! its only 10k's over, what difference will that make.

2 things...

what difference will 10 k's over make in a school zone???? if parents are responsible and make sure their kids don't run in front of cars, then 100 k's an hour wouldn't make a diff. as for a problem to arise, there needs to be an unsupervised brat playing in traffic. my 2c

and cops rarely do sheite about burgs or robbings where i am. go out on a sat night in warrnambool, and watch all the people getting beat up, with the cops standing 100 meters away. as for the copper that told a female friend that was reportinga rape, that it was probably her fault, so he wouldn't take a statement...

don't get me started on shit coppers.

There are some good ones out there, but usually they don't last because they either burn out from caring too much, and then are forced to tow the hardass line of not giving a sheite, or they get fired for not pinging enough p platers going 2 k's over the limit.

[BIG GQ]

Drive on whatever size rubber you want to. At the end of the day if a cop is having a bad day or had a fight with his warden the night before he will find something to pinch you for no matter how compliant your vehicle is. A dirty windscreen can land you a fine these days!!!
Having said that I was overtaken by the cops on my way home without a windscreen after the rollover and they must have felt I'd had a bad enough weekend as it was cause they looked at it and kept on driving.

If you are pulled up though it doesn't help to make smart remarks about his missus as he is walking off after giving you a ticket he just turns right around and writes you another one............

[longlux]

Thats not suprising i was wondering wat the cops do in QLD my wife & myself were there last year in brisbane & we couldnt believe all the people speeding we saw a ambo go speeding past lights & sirens & cars & trucks were overtaking it
this was on the hwy between brisy & hope harbour we saw cop cars but they were ignoring it all they must have been looking for wide tyres & not speeders

do all Qld'ers drive like this

[HeathGQ]

Thats not suprising i was wondering wat the cops do in QLD my wife & myself were there last year in brisbane & we couldnt believe all the people speeding we saw a ambo go speeding past lights & sirens & cars & trucks were overtaking it
this was on the hwy between brisy & hope harbour we saw cop cars but they were ignoring it all they must have been looking for wide tyres & not speeders

do all Qld'ers drive like this

absolutely....

[chimpboy]

do all Qld'ers drive like this

The thing you most notice when you move to Brisbane from Melbourne or Sydney is that Brisbanites are really bad drivers.

I don't mean they are inconsiderate - although they often are - or too aggressive or anything. I mean, they don't know how to drive. They don't know what's going on around them. It's really astonishing; they genuinely seem to be oblivious in ways I've never seen in any other place. Even in other parts of Queensland the drivers aren't as bad - like, they can drive in Townsville, for example.

Why? I dunno. It's scary though. Can't merge, can't maintain a constant or sensible speed, can't use lanes properly, have no sense of their surroundings. And this is before it starts raining... once the rain hits, it gets about fifty times worse. The road is wet! Drive no more than 10km/h! Even at this speed, stack into other cars!

Even take a place like Sydney, where the driving is pretty frenetic and ruthless, and at least you get around with a feeling like, "well, that was pretty cut-throat but at least the Cookie can drive." You feel like the other guy is at least aware you were there when he pulls in front of you with just a fraction of a margin for error.

Anyone moves here from somewhere else, you can say to them after a couple of weeks, "so, have you noticed Brisbane drivers?" and they get this look on their face that says, thank god it's not just my imagination!

Now you, reading this, may be a Brisbane native, and you may be thinking, "this is totally unfair! Who is this prick? I'm a pretty good driver!" To this I can only respond: do you know anyone who doesn't think he's a pretty good driver? Some of those guys are wrong, right?

Scary shit. Rant over!

Jason

[Thonger]

Mate I live in vic now after 8 years in Bris and before that I learnt to drive in darwin, have driven in every capital on mainland aus and can tell you it's no different. Guys posted down here bitch about vic drivers and exactly the same points you brought up about Qld one's, ie can't maintain speed, don't know how to use round abouts, cutting people off with out looking. Think it's common as people move notice a bad driver then blame the state.
Now in the territory we all know how too drive and that's why we can have ann unlimted speed limit and don't have a higher rate of fatalities per head of population than the other state's. Speed kills my arse, inappropriate speed kills is a better slogan.

[-Scott-]

thank god it's not just my imagination!

Exactly what I was thinking when I started reading your post! I learned to drive in Adelaide (and didn't kill myself in 5 years of silliness in the Adelaide Hills ) then spent 2 years in Cairns, before moving to Brisbane. For 5 years work took me regularly to Sydney, where I normally had access to a car. There is definitely something wrong with the average Brisbane driver.

Rain is a problem - I liken it to "bringing out the snails" - all the people who normally catch public transport (because they can't drive!) take the car to work. Then, because they can't drive, the roads are busier than normal, and the roads are wet they crawl along at ridiculously low speeds, and still manage to have accidents.

I agree with Thonger about the roundabouts, too - the average Brisbaneite has NO concept of how to use a roundabout. But this may be because Queensland (until recently) had absolutely nonsensical rules for indicating at roundabouts (right indicator as you drive into the roundabout, regardless of where you intend to exit...)

I think part of the problem is that the roads have been laid out by work experience students (or something...) Lanes do strange things in place. One of my favourites was at Annerley. Three lanes at a set of lights. On the other side of the lights the two rh lanes (the ones used most) merged into one and lh lane (which nobody used) split into two. WTF?

Now you, reading this, may be a Brisbane native, and you may be thinking, "this is totally unfair! Who is this prick? I'm a pretty good driver!" To this I can only respond: do you know anyone who doesn't think he's a pretty good driver? Some of those guys are wrong, right?

I used to work with a Pom who freely admitted he was not a good driver. But that's OK, because I'm good enough to make up for him

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest!

Scott

[Ben]

Chimpboy, are you sure you're not living in Adelaide?? Cause I was there last week and saw everything you described...especially the merging bit...they just don't understand the concept whatsoever.

Doesn't matter how many times we explained it to a couple of SA friends, they just didn't get it.

[-Scott-]

I think Adelaide is (or was for a long time) strictly give way to the right - if someone is in sight (no matter how far back) in the right hand lane, stop , let them go past, then attempt to merge.

But we get that on the SE Freeway here in Brisbane, too. Vehicle accelerating along on-ramp, vehicle in LH lane on freeway slows to ensure the incoming vehicle can merge, then merging vehicle decides to give way. Vehicle on Freeway has already decided to give way, so suddenly a braking competition develops - who can come to a stop the fastest?

I hate it when somebody has already stopped in my braking space. Fastest way to discover that matter into matter doesn't go.

Scott

[murcod]

Chimpboy, are you sure you're not living in Adelaide?? Cause I was there last week and saw everything you described...especially the merging bit...they just don't understand the concept whatsoever.

Doesn't matter how many times we explained it to a couple of SA friends, they just didn't get it.

Ha, ha ,ha! I know what you mean- you see you were trying to invade their personal space by merging.

People deliberately try to block you over here- they'll even drastically speed up to do it and then slow down again once the deed's done. It takes a bit of getting used to, but after a while you learn to expect it.

[Guy]

Chimpboy, are you sure you're not living in Adelaide?? Cause I was there last week and saw everything you described...especially the merging bit...they just don't understand the concept whatsoever.

Doesn't matter how many times we explained it to a couple of SA friends, they just didn't get it.

Ha, ha ,ha! I know what you mean- you see you were trying to invade their personal space by merging.

People deliberately try to block you over here- they'll even drastically speed up to do it and then slow down again once the deed's done. It takes a bit of getting used to, but after a while you learn to expect it.

Thats why I love driving something as ugly as the Zuk with 3 inches of tyre and flexiflare past the bodywork .. just start to merge .. they normally move (especially if your truck is half covered in crud wearing 35's or bigger )

[B.D.R]

[quote="383FJ45"]have any of you queenslanders been pulled over by that 'snr sgt. walsh' guy with the coke bottle glasses? he was in the paper down here, and it said he gave out about 75,000 tickets

If that's a Queensland copper, his brother's down here in Melbourne, there mum obviously did'nt give him too many hugs as a kids.
In half an hour loss of licence almost $600 of fines that was my falt sort of but if he had of told me the law it before going to the station only $200 fine, get home hour later a knock at the door same ****** **** smile on face with another $500 fine , he did let me know some thing good but you can tell them to get right f***** and don't get in trouble .

But have come across great one's too!!! As some of my mate's are coppers.

[longlux]

Opps wasnt this thread originaly about wide tyres

[beebee]

Chimpboy, are you sure you're not living in Adelaide?? Cause I was there last week and saw everything you described...especially the merging bit...they just don't understand the concept whatsoever.

Doesn't matter how many times we explained it to a couple of SA friends, they just didn't get it.

Ha, ha ,ha! I know what you mean- you see you were trying to invade their personal space by merging.

People deliberately try to block you over here- they'll even drastically speed up to do it and then slow down again once the deed's done. It takes a bit of getting used to, but after a while you learn to expect it.

Thats why I love driving something as ugly as the Zuk with 3 inches of tyre and flexiflare past the bodywork .. just start to merge .. they normally move (especially if your truck is half covered in crud wearing 35's or bigger )

I've got better than that!

Try a daily driven rig with EXO! Can you say street cred

[Beastmavster]

Half agree with the chimp... the only thing I've noticed is for some reason people seem to be more aware of motorbikes than in melbourne.

Maybe it's the three hour mirror check before changing lanes.

Other than that, they're all crap drivers. And then it rains and when you thought that they couldn't get worse.... you find out they can get a LOT worse.

Having got that off my chest, at least half the problem with Brisbane drivers is without a doubt Brisbane ROADS.

Narrow, bumpy, badly designed, patch on patch on patch on patch, heaps of blind corners with poles within millimeters of the road edge.

If they scraped all signs of tar off them and left them as dirt then they'd probably be improved.

No wonder the road toll in QLD is the worst in the country and the Rego/Third party insurance is 50% higher than Sydney or Melbourne.

[Beastmavster]

mmm here is a topic that we get to deal with all the time in the buggy world. A few handy hints for you all.

1 - Tyres sizes and variations are not classified as safety issues... what do I mean by this ? well they can not be applied is arrears such as seat belts / child restraints etc etc as long as the vehicle is already registered.

2 - In Dec 1993 Dept of QLD published a pamphlet called All About Alternative Rims and Tyres .... In it is clearly states in Black and White ...
" 4 Wheel Drive Off-Road Passenger Vehicles

Width - The wheel rim must not exceed the manufacturer's standard minimum wheel rim by more than 51mm, for the particular series. Where the manufactures offers am optional wide wheel rim, the maximum allowable width will be regarded as the width of the optional wide wheel rim, or the width of the standard wheel plus 51mm, whichever is the greatest"

Now you will see it clearly states that the width of the standard wheel plus 51mm, whichever is greatest.

3- Now if you vehicle is made before 12 / 93 it is totally allowable to abide by these rules and have no problems with the police at all. This is the same writing which excludes VW's from having the same size tyres front and rear. I drive a Manx Buggy with 31 x 10 .5'x on the rear and 215 x 75 x 15 on the front. Never had a problem.

I have been pulled over by the Nice Policeman a few times and he even had the hide to defect me on several occasions. I simply walked into Dept of Main Road inspection Station with my defect notice and my photo copy pamphlet and the problem goes away.

In regards to over hang it is not allowed so for that you will need to wear the kick in the ass.

I hope this helps. I have no idea about after 12 / 93 as I don’t own anything that new

I would suggest you track down the actual rules yourself as I have found a lot of people quote stuff incorrectly and believing this may only add to your issues.

Does this mean so long as the rim is 2" wider or under any tyre goes for pre 12/93 models?

If so send it to me JT2 36" here I come

[Thonger]

No wonder the road toll in QLD is the worst in the country and the Rego/Third party insurance is 50% higher than Sydney or Melbourne.

Pretty sure rego cost is higher because the State gov subsidises the fuel excise making fuel cheaper, correct me if I'm wrong. and am sure someone will Don't think the actual third party component is that much higher than other states.