Water cooled turbo issues?

[badger]

My troopy has a water cooled garrett turbo on it with some pump mods etc.
It has issues with heating up only when making highish (10+psi) boost pressures for long periods (1 minute or so) e.g ranges and towing. The EGT's are not high at all, approx 350 max.

My mates 80 has a similar pump and a water cooled CT26 and seems to suffer the same problem.

I know of a few other vehicles doing the same that are water cooled yet every vehicle i know of (similar tunes, turbo sizes and motors) with a non water cooled turbo doesnt have this issue.

I know i could just disconnect the water lines and run it, but i like the reliability and longevity of a water cooled turbo

Would it be beneficial to install a small stand alone cooling system for the turbo?

http://j-w-racing.co.uk/product.php/604 ... rbo_cooler
Similar to this

Has anyone done this or similar or have any experience

Cheers

[hulsty]

Are you saying that the engine water temp rises and you think it is due to the turbo?

Are you sure your entire cooling system is upto scratch? I have a BJ74 that runs a water and oil cooled CT26 running peak 13.5psi boost, even when holding sustained high boost (+15mins in 3rd gear) with EGT's over 500c my engine temp has never moved SINCE fixing up the viscous coupling on my clutch fan.

[tweak'e]

as above.

i know of some other vehicle where they had similar things. they all had marginal/faulty cooling systems and that little bit of extra heat from the turbo is enough to make it overheat.

the extra heat is from the extra boost rather than from the turbo water lines. i think a few guys tested it and there was no real increase in temp in the water lines. as well the amount of water flow is to small to carry large amounts of heat.

[yamaha__308]

Check your viscous fan hub, water pump, radiator and thermostat are perfect before going any further.

My turboed, cooled 2L with only oil cooling struggled even after all these were replaced and then finally gave up the ghost and blew the head. After stripping it down the water galleries were pretty full of gunge. So I'd even check that.

Why are you only hitting 350 C? Should be more than that. A crazy old man once told me that diesels also dont like underfueling as well as overfueling..

You could also try an intercooler. 10psi air is hot.

[bens80]

Check your viscous fan hub, water pump, radiator and thermostat are perfect before going any further.

My turboed, cooled 2L with only oil cooling struggled even after all these were replaced and then finally gave up the ghost and blew the head. After stripping it down the water galleries were pretty full of gunge. So I'd even check that.

Why are you only hitting 350 C? Should be more than that. A crazy old man once told me that diesels also dont like underfueling as well as overfueling..

You could also try an intercooler. 10psi air is hot.

I have an intercooled turbo 1hz in an 80 and all of the cooling system is brand new, the head is new and all water galleries have been flushed out, im seeing exactly this problem and are keen to rectify it, my EGTs reach a max of 350 (after having pump rebuilt) i believe the turbo is heating up the water too much aswell

[badger]

I should have known people would post up comments about the cooling system.
The whole engine and cooling system is perfect it is all almost brand new, the motor has under 60k on it everything else is new

Those saying that you have no temperature issues, are you using a toyota gauge or after market?

Yamaha__308 the car is only hitting 350c because it has been set up properly and is tuned to live for a very long time. It is not by any means running lean. The crazy old man that told you about diesels running lean must be smarter than all the european engineers designing modern diesels:P

The 80 i mentioned is intercooled and it makes no difference what so ever........ It is tuned fatter than mine but maintains similar egt's, i put this down to the huge front mount:P
you can rev both cars hard all day around town or off road and never move the temps

I also realise the cooling system on a troopy is not ideal with the tiny radiator, but they use all the same parts in the factory turbo motor which runs 16psi standard and they dont heat up.
They do however have a better head design for cooling.

I do plan to intercool the car straight after tax time, i doubt it will fix this problem tho from experiance on other cars. will hopefully make an improvement tho

[Clanky]

Engine oil cools the turbo and engine as well as lubricating.
What temp is your oil running at when it starts to overheat?
Does your OEM oil cooler have a heat exchanger with the water jacket which could be adding heat to the water?
Maybe a better oil to air cooler would help and would certainly complement the cooling system in any case.

Also where is your engine sucking in air? Hot under bonnet air or cool air from a snorkle?

Troopies are not the best design for removing heat from the engine area, but things can be done to help ( bonnet scoops, packing up the back of the bonnet to improve air flow).

[badger]

Clanky.
Thats an interesting question, i dont have an oil temp gauge, so i am unsure about this. The oil cooler is just the standard toyota 1hz job.

It has a snorkle, and at the speeds it heats up should be copping a good gut full of cool air.

It heats up just as easy at 3am in the morning when its freezing outside as it does at lunch time wich leads me to think it is the turbo.

A mate pointed out to me tonight that it could also be inefficient water gallery design in the head to cope with the extra heat caused by the boost and fuel increases.

I will try to track down a oil temp gauge, any suggestions where the best place to mount one is?

[B.D.R]

Mine used to do this, but it's a Petrol GQ

It was the Coolling system

It stoped it after i finaly got ALL the Air out of the system, any one with an RB30 would know of the issue

Just because the Motor only has 60K on it, does not automaticly mean the Rdiator and what not are up to scratch.

[PGS 4WD]

We have recently intercooled two troopy's with 2H motors that both had issues overheating when towing. They both now are fine, in fact they picked up power without the addition of fuel and now have EGT's and water temps considerably lower.

Joel

[Clanky]

Good call PGS4wd
Compressing air makes heat, and intercooling is an excellent way of making more power and keeping exhaust temps down.
But you say your exh temps are around 350 - pretty low for an overheating engine.

If you are going to check your oil temp it might be worth knowing what your intake temp is (after the turbo has compressed it.) too. Some turbos are very inefficient if operating outside their designed range and make more heat than boost.

Anyway, some checking and testing is always a good place to start finding out whats going on

[KiwiBacon]

Simple maths.

10psi means you've got about 1/3 more air than no turbo, if you're tuned to that then you're delivering about 1/3 more power than stock.
1/3 more power means 1/3 more excess heat to the radiator too. Basically you've pushed the stock system outside it's comfort zone. An intercooler will help, but you really need to look at a bigger radiator or other means of shedding more heat under load.

350C max EGT's means you have a gauge that can't be trusted. Either it's way down the exhaust pipe or doesn't extend to the middle of the flow.

[badger]

Mine used to do this, but it's a Petrol GQ

It was the Coolling system

It stoped it after i finaly got ALL the Air out of the system, any one with an RB30 would know of the issue

Just because the Motor only has 60K on it, does not automaticly mean the Rdiator and what not are up to scratch.

You cant read. the motor has done 60. everything else is new. We are talking about a diesel with an after market turbo. Not RB30, i doubt a petrol would stay on boost long enough to see this problem even on a track

[badger]

Simple maths.

10psi means you've got about 1/3 more air than no turbo, if you're tuned to that then you're delivering about 1/3 more power than stock.
1/3 more power means 1/3 more excess heat to the radiator too. Basically you've pushed the stock system outside it's comfort zone. An intercooler will help, but you really need to look at a bigger radiator or other means of shedding more heat under load.

350C max EGT's means you have a gauge that can't be trusted. Either it's way down the exhaust pipe or doesn't extend to the middle of the flow.

I am looking at this. Hence trying to take the heat produced by the turbo out of the cooling system.

BTW the pyro is installed properly thanks for asking.
I have played with a few 1hz's and spoken to a guy tuning 200+ out of them. They are not like nissans with there EGT's you can run them way fatter before they will hit 550deg he recons once they get there tho they will melt faster.

also helps if you have brand new injectors instead of 300k old ones dribble the fuel out instead of spraying

If the radiator is the same as the factory turbos i dont see how it could the radiators problem.




Thanks for every ones "help" but if you dont have anything to offer on this exact topic please dont offer at all.
I dont need to hear to check my clutch fan, and that my brand new genuine radiator is stuffed etc etc

[Clanky]

A simple way of checking the radiator effectiveness (not that I am mentioning yours is knackered...) is to measure inlet and outlet temps at the same time - you should also measure the ambient air temp too). Then you can work out the temp drop across the radiator and see how effective it is.

This should help you track down if you have a sticky thermostat or if there is not enough air flow across the rad core etc.

this might be helpful too.
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/diesel ... utions.htm

[Clanky]

Oh just had another thought.
You should check the concentration of your coolant is correct with the manufacturers recommendation. If you exceed the max concentration engines can run hot - too much silicons and other stuff, and these arent as efficient as water in removing the heat.

[hulsty]

I've got a couple of mates that run decent boost in there highish km 1HZ 14-18psi with lots of fuel and they do not have to many issues keeping them cool. Pretty sure neither have water cooling, oil only.

[80's_delirious]

My troopy has a water cooled garrett turbo on it with some pump mods etc.
It has issues with heating up only when making highish (10+psi) boost pressures for long periods (1 minute or so) e.g ranges and towing. The EGT's are not high at all, approx 350 max.

IMO the heat from the turbo is not the issue. The boost level and EGTs you describe arent excessive if they are accurate.

I was running my std turbo diesel 80 at ~18psi, heavily fueled, no intercooler, EGTs up to 750*C (pre turbo).

It only showed signs of overheating once, and that was in 38c heat pushing hard up a mountain pass, ie 5-10min full boost full throttle.

[Z()LTAN]

I have something to add here.

Before i intercooled my 1hz i never had engine cooling issues.

After i intercooled my 1hz, turned the boost to 25psi and another load of fuel to it, i still dont have cooling issues.

The radiator is a standard old 75 series unit.

The engine on the other hand is a brand new 07 model unit with about 7000kms on it now.

My tow rig is a 93 model 75 series with 1hz, 380,000 on the clock.
I tow the comp ute around with it all the time up and down the hills. Its slow but the temp needle barely ever moves.

I dont know exactly what causes your engine to overheat but id be starting with looking at your thermostat and waterpump.

[bens80]

I've got a couple of mates that run decent boost in there highish km 1HZ 14-18psi with lots of fuel and they do not have to many issues keeping them cool. Pretty sure neither have water cooling, oil only.

i think this is what badger is getting at, people with oil only cooled turbos dont seem to get this problem, my 1hz has a front mount (probably restricting airflow a bit to the radiator) it never overheats unless on constant boost (16psi) like going up a range or towing a heavy trailer, even then just backing off a bit its ok. The factory gauge dosnt move untill the aftermarket gauge reaches about 106 degrees, i dont actually have an "overheating" problem but i would like to somehow keep temps down a bit when it is on constant boost

[thehanko]

just remember that everyone is trying to help, no suggestion is a bad one as they might not know everything you do about your vehicle.

It is worth noting that new radiators can be faulty with blocked cores during manufacture - they can cope until put under load. rare but it does happen.

I had this exact problem - new rad, pump, stat etc in a Turbo Toyota diesel.

It only overheated when pushing hard up hills or towing, and yes it had a egts in normal range.

The radiator was the problem, new new radiator and never an issue again.

so just because its new doesn't always mean its good.



In theory it shouldn't get that hot with what are essentially very very low egt's, a relatively low 10 psi boost (shouldn't create too much heat) and a new cooling system.

so nothing much makes sense in the scenario - therefor I would be looking at cooling system, even though its new.

If you don't want to disconnect the water cooling for the turbo (unlikely this is the issue) but if it is somehow causing excessive heat then you need a bigger cooling system to cope with it.

It is easy to test if this is your issue, disconnect it and drive it for a week or 2 and see if it solves the issue. this is not going to adversely reduce the turbos life span in such a short period. but will indicate if its the cause.

once you know that you can move onto what else might be the problem.

You seem to have answered in your mind your own question so best to test it out.

[KiwiBacon]

BTW the pyro is installed properly thanks for asking.
I have played with a few 1hz's and spoken to a guy tuning 200+ out of them. They are not like nissans with there EGT's you can run them way fatter before they will hit 550deg he recons once they get there tho they will melt faster.

Sorry but no.
If you're reading 350C max then your probe is not installed properly.
My diesel runs 170C at a warm idle. If at max power you're only running twice as rich as a warm idle then you'd be generating around 15kw.

Find and fix the probe problem. It could cost your engine.

[badger]

Thanks for every ones "help" but if you dont have anything to offer on this exact topic please dont offer at all.
I dont need to hear to check my clutch fan, and that my brand new genuine radiator is stuffed etc etc

I dont care if you think ive mounted my pyro in my rear muffler, or you think my radiator is rooted, or you think that my car was tuned by a 3 headed numpdy from New Zeeland. If you dont have any direct experiance with my original question about putting my water cooled turbo on a seperate cooling system please stop pretending you know everything about a car you have never seen and fuck off

[bens80]

BTW the pyro is installed properly thanks for asking.
I have played with a few 1hz's and spoken to a guy tuning 200+ out of them. They are not like nissans with there EGT's you can run them way fatter before they will hit 550deg he recons once they get there tho they will melt faster.

Sorry but no.
If you're reading 350C max then your probe is not installed properly.
My diesel runs 170C at a warm idle. If at max power you're only running twice as rich as a warm idle then you'd be generating around 15kw.

Find and fix the probe problem. It could cost your engine.

Id be almost tempted to believe you but my pyro probe hasnt been moved since it was installed, it used to read 550deg under load untill i got new injectors and a rebuilt pump now 350deg, it now makes much more power too and has better fuel consumption, what motor is yours, it actually makes a big difference

[Clanky]

170degC at idle.
That seems pretty warm. No matter how hot it has been , my idle always comes back to 100 after a couple of minutes, and if I care to wait long enough it will go much lower.

That said, I agree 350 deg C is a fairly untaxed engine

[KiwiBacon]

Thanks for every ones "help" but if you dont have anything to offer on this exact topic please dont offer at all.
I dont need to hear to check my clutch fan, and that my brand new genuine radiator is stuffed etc etc

I dont care if you think ive mounted my pyro in my rear muffler, or you think my radiator is rooted, or you think that my car was tuned by a 3 headed numpdy from New Zeeland. If you dont have any direct experiance with my original question about putting my water cooled turbo on a seperate cooling system please stop pretending you know everything about a car you have never seen and . off

Nothing better than asking for help, then telling people to FO who try to help you.

[KiwiBacon]

Id be almost tempted to believe you but my pyro probe hasnt been moved since it was installed, it used to read 550deg under load untill i got new injectors and a rebuilt pump now 350deg, it now makes much more power too and has better fuel consumption, what motor is yours, it actually makes a big difference

Advancing timing (which a rebuilt rotary fuel pump will probably do) does reduce exhaust temps. But you'd have a serious "before" problem to find a 200C reduction. I've found not quite 50C difference in the range of too far retarded to too far advanced.

This particular engine is an Isuzu 3.9 turbo diesel. Pyro probe is 3mm diameter, in the exhaust manifold about 3 inches from the head where the ports meet the turbo flange.
It runs 130C at cold idle, 170C at warm idle, I run it to 750C occasionally. Flat road at 100km/h is about 430C.

I ran a 6mm probe for a while, it was soo laggy that it was useless for reading EGT's under acceleration.

[badger]

Your not helping.
You are doing a great job of messing up potentially good thread with uninformed bullshit.

yes 350 is low. I want it to be low. As i said it is tuned to live for a long time. it aint no horse power hero. my old gq used to see 550+ day in day out but it went heaps harder and was a toy, not my work truck.

Please dont post in here again UNLESS you have tried cooling your turbo seperatly to your engine.
I dont wish to argue with you.



*goes out side to wind fuel screw in untill my pyro its 170 at idle*
glad my car will now become reliable

[Clanky]

Ahhhh -your temps are pre-turbo.
Temps make sense to me now.

I also agree, you dont normally see a 200degC reduction unless something was seriously wrong in the first place. And 350degC is definitely light on the fuel - half throttle?


Anyway, back to the thread. I was thinking about the radiator again - have you checked the inlet and outlet temps yet?

I also had a crook "new" radiator a few years back and could never understand why it used to heat up when worked. Turns out some legend had melted about 10 sticks of solder into the radiator when it was made, and it was restricting the flow as you would expect.

Any luck checking the oil temps as well?

[badger]

I have unfortunatly been out all weekend with kids birthdays and havent even looked at the troopy all weekend. I will be sure to figure a way to test the oil temps.

Thanks for your help clanky. If i come accross a way to test my oil temps i will reply with some numbers.