Assuming you want to build a new front axle set up (think upgrade) why would you go a kingpin set up over a normal balljoint arrangement for an open knuckle front diff?
Have been told kingpins are better on rocks etc (ie rocks can impact the bottom balljoint and pop the circlip etc causing carnage), however kingpin set ups are more prone to mud and dust ingress in the bearing causing greater wear rates and ongoing maintenence issues.
Not a comp truck, not a daily driver, but all round wheeler, hard use (A grade stuff) and it needs to be strong and reliable.
Opinions?
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King pin vs. Balljoint?
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I would have thought the King Pin may have been a stronger setup when compared to a swivel housing as the ball joints in the king pin arrangement have greater seperation and the Uni/CV space is larger. Also, I'm not sure that they are more maintenance despite how they look. The Disco2 runs this setup aswell the other more popular ones like Dana etc.
Edit for clarity
Edit for clarity
Last edited by Slunnie on Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers
Slunnie
Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
Slunnie
Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
Re: King pin vs. Balljoint?
what you finally burnt that jeep thing, and bought a decent 4b?GUtripper wrote:... but all round wheeler, hard use (A grade stuff) and it needs to be strong and reliable.
Thats just got confusing very quickly!uninformed wrote:what are you calling a ball joint? swivel housing???
On my setup at least, it is a King pin arrangement, but it uses a ball joint as the top and bottom pivots. This is the setup that I think allows for greater sized uni or CV joints etc and provides greater seperation of the top and bottom joints.
This was in comparison to swivel hubs which GU tripper has incorrectly called a ball joint
This is assuming I've interpretted him correctly!
Cheers
Slunnie
Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
Slunnie
Discovery TD5, Landy IIa V8 ute.
hmm im confused too as I always thought it was 2 seperate things.
I thought the king pin is the swivel point of the hub and uses bearings, and the other option was ball joints which act as the swivel point of the hub.
As in it doesn't matter if its enclosed hub or open hub. I know some older Ford Dana 60 is available as open knuckle (Can see the uni) with king pins but the modern ones are ball jointed.
i found some stuff on pirate about it: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... index.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=653085
I can't see that much difference...both have positives and negatives depending on application and build quality. Cheap ball joints will last no longer than cheap roller bearings on a swivel hub, except on the king pin you can use thinner shims to take up some of the slack (that is assuming the bearings haven't hammered themselves into the race causing play only when at certain steering angles
).
Manufacturers of domestic 4x4 and even light commercial 4x4 vehicles do seem to be moving to the open knuckle, ball jointed and unit wheel bearing setup. Most likely due to ease of construction and cheaper material costs (less unique parts required per vehicle) ?
I thought the king pin is the swivel point of the hub and uses bearings, and the other option was ball joints which act as the swivel point of the hub.
As in it doesn't matter if its enclosed hub or open hub. I know some older Ford Dana 60 is available as open knuckle (Can see the uni) with king pins but the modern ones are ball jointed.
i found some stuff on pirate about it: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavist ... index.html
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=653085
I can't see that much difference...both have positives and negatives depending on application and build quality. Cheap ball joints will last no longer than cheap roller bearings on a swivel hub, except on the king pin you can use thinner shims to take up some of the slack (that is assuming the bearings haven't hammered themselves into the race causing play only when at certain steering angles
).Manufacturers of domestic 4x4 and even light commercial 4x4 vehicles do seem to be moving to the open knuckle, ball jointed and unit wheel bearing setup. Most likely due to ease of construction and cheaper material costs (less unique parts required per vehicle) ?
Correct. I would call them ball joints as they are pressed in then (usually) held in with a circlip arrangement, and look remarkably like 2wd front end (ie Holden etc) balljoints.Yom wrote: I thought the king pin is the swivel point of the hub and uses bearings, and the other option was ball joints which act as the swivel point of the hub.
I would have said the 'swivel hub' , al-la GQ/GU Patrol is only the outer casing to protect the inner pivot points. I believe patrols use upper and lower bearings more akin to a king pin set up, but within a housing as said.Slunnie wrote:[
This was in comparison to swivel hubs which GU tripper has incorrectly called a ball joint
This is assuming I've interpretted him correctly!
Re: King pin vs. Balljoint?
Never.bogged wrote:what you finally burnt that jeep thing, and bought a decent 4b?GUtripper wrote:... but all round wheeler, hard use (A grade stuff) and it needs to be strong and reliable.
I have 2 decent 4by's.
I have been thinking about it a little more and I can't see any significant benefit or downside to either setup - both have their strengths and weaknesses from what it seems.
Maybe look further into what off the shelf hardcore diffs are available in the USA. Dynatrac, Currie, SOLID etc and see what they're using as the chances are that if they are building their custom gear in a particular way it is for a good reason (they've been using King pins and ball joints with open knuckles for longer than anyone else in the world, afaik)
Maybe look further into what off the shelf hardcore diffs are available in the USA. Dynatrac, Currie, SOLID etc and see what they're using as the chances are that if they are building their custom gear in a particular way it is for a good reason (they've been using King pins and ball joints with open knuckles for longer than anyone else in the world, afaik)
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