Sticking Relays

[macca81]

i have been having trouble a couple of times where the relay for my spotties has stuck on resulting in my spotties being on when low beam is on (i rekon theres a few drivers pissed off with me for it too!)

now, would this likely be because they have just been supercrap relays (the rest of my lights use the same relays with no probs), or would itbe something else? only happens on my spotties, and only gets stuck in the closed circuit position.

Cheers
Macca

[oldmate]

I think your right to suspect the super cheap relays.
I used a supercheap fuse holder once for a small set of driving lights and it melted. It was well under the current rating too.

I've used narva electrical bits for years and never had problems. If your lights are massive then you may have to look at an even more hardier relay.

Something else to check though is that you're using the right guage wire for the lights.

[macca81]

I think your right to suspect the super cheap relays.
I used a supercheap fuse holder once for a small set of driving lights and it melted. It was well under the current rating too.

I've used narva electrical bits for years and never had problems. If your lights are massive then you may have to look at an even more hardier relay.

Something else to check though is that you're using the right guage wire for the lights.

yeah i normally use narva, almost everything cept the light relays are narva, repco was out when i needed them tho :( so superheap in a pinch.

wire is more than adequate, i always go overkill on my wiring.

might just have to go and get a few decent relays and see if it makes a differance

[DamTriton]

Get the Bigger Narva ones, IIRC 40 amps or so rather than the normal 30 amp version. The more contact surface area, the less heat generated and less voltage drop across the contacts.

[drivesafe]

Hi macca81, when I was developing my headlight looms, I was going to use the Narva relays, the ones with the fuses built in.

Even though my relay supplier could have lost out if I didn’t use the Narva, they warned off using them because they had such a high return rate.

So you can have problems even with better known brands.

With something like sticking contacts, try opening the relay and giving the contacts a clean with some fine grade sandpaper.

[1MadEngineer]

flyback diode! about 10c and 5mins to fit.

[Black Bull]

Only ever use Bosch ones myself. have run 2x 130 watt globes for years and never killed one.

All my re-wires use Bosch ones too. there's a reason why they're OE for many manufactureres

[stuee]

Only ever use Bosch ones myself. have run 2x 130 watt globes for years and never killed one.

All my re-wires use Bosch ones too. there's a reason why they're OE for many manufactureres

Where does one obtain bosh relays?? I've not seen them sold at the normal auto parts stores so I assume they have to be special ordered from an auto sparky or something. I generally use Narva as its the best quality of what is easily available (ie pick it up on a weekend).

[nicbeer]

covs should have them.

not sure but auto1 usually have the bosch stuff but not 100% on relays.

reminds me i have to look for one too

[Black Bull]

Only ever use Bosch ones myself. have run 2x 130 watt globes for years and never killed one.

All my re-wires use Bosch ones too. there's a reason why they're OE for many manufactureres

Where does one obtain bosh relays?? I've not seen them sold at the normal auto parts stores so I assume they have to be special ordered from an auto sparky or something. I generally use Narva as its the best quality of what is easily available (ie pick it up on a weekend).

I Usually buy mine wholesale, but any decent spare parts store should be able to at least order them in

And yeah being in WA, Coventry Auto parts should have/be able to get them.

[macca81]

flyback diode! about 10c and 5mins to fit.

elaborate please....




drivesafe, ill open it up and have a looksee, its interesting that you say that about narva relays, because i try to use narva gear in most of my lecky stuff...

[1MadEngineer]

flyback diode! about 10c and 5mins to fit.

elaborate please....

one of the cheapest and most effective forms of ARC suppression, recommended on most relays and contactors.

[macca81]

ok so i pulled it apart and there didnt appear to be anything wrong with the contact, cleaned it up anyway but.

put it back in, and noticed something odd (unsure if it happened b4, i just pulled the relay when my spotties stayed on on lo).
when i turn my lights on lo, my lowbeam comes on, flick on high, and my high+spots come on, back down to lo and its lo+spots, off and everything goes off... now normaly if the relay is stuck, the spots should remain on even when my other headlights are off right?

the spots are set up to take power direct from battery, using Hi-beam pos wire as the trigger... so, why do they turn off with my low beams? im 99% sure that the low beam wires arent on the trigger wire(spots dont come on with low beam)

[bansheebuzz]

what sort of vehicle is it?

[Ferwoaza]

Welcome to the wonderful world of vehicle wiring

Replacing the relay is the quickest way to check if that was the issue. If you do this and it's still happening, then wiring is the next (and worst) part to check.

First thing to check is all earth connections. Bad, dogey, live earths are a very common problem with most electrical issues. Run the earth back to battery is a 100% way to be sure the earth is good.

Then check the trigger feed, use a multimeter if possible (or cheap test lamp) and see what wires are going live on low beam and high beam, doing this if there is an issue, it should jump out at you (ie trigger being live on low beam).

Failing all of that...there is always the "start again" factor and do a rewire job..

[chimpboy]

the spots are set up to take power direct from battery, using Hi-beam pos wire as the trigger... so, why do they turn off with my low beams? im 99% sure that the low beam wires arent on the trigger wire(spots dont come on with low beam)

Well, make that 99% into a 100% and get back to us

[macca81]

Welcome to the wonderful world of vehicle wiring

Replacing the relay is the quickest way to check if that was the issue. If you do this and it's still happening, then wiring is the next (and worst) part to check.

First thing to check is all earth connections. Bad, dogey, live earths are a very common problem with most electrical issues. Run the earth back to battery is a 100% way to be sure the earth is good.

Then check the trigger feed, use a multimeter if possible (or cheap test lamp) and see what wires are going live on low beam and high beam, doing this if there is an issue, it should jump out at you (ie trigger being live on low beam).

Failing all of that...there is always the "start again" factor and do a rewire job..

mmm i know all about fault finding, been thru that too many times. hence asking in the hope that someone might be able to just know! (those that do this stuff everyday tend to have a knack for it)

gunna have to pull the multimeter out and sus it out. i dont like the idea of re-wiring again, as quite some time was spent making this loom just the right length and tucked away nicely...

[-Scott-]

Now that I've had a little time to think about it it could be a wiring issue rather than a relay issue.

Most relays require less energy to hold in than to pull in.

Long shot: When you flick to high beam, the relay pulls in and spots come on. When you return to low beam, the relay is being energised in series with some other load, which is supplying enough current to hold the relay in. Lights off, relay de-energises, all is normal again.

If the relay is REALLY borderline, it might release sometimes, and not others.

How to test?

As you flick between hi & lo, do the spots stay on each time, every time? Or do they go off sometimes? If they go off sometimes, does it make a difference if the engine is on or off?

If this could be the problem, stick some additional resistance in series with the relay coil - if the circuit starts to behave properly, you could simply leave it there, or re-design your circuit to eliminate the problem.

[macca81]

Now that I've had a little time to think about it it could be a wiring issue rather than a relay issue.

Most relays require less energy to hold in than to pull in.

Long shot: When you flick to high beam, the relay pulls in and spots come on. When you return to low beam, the relay is being energised in series with some other load, which is supplying enough current to hold the relay in. Lights off, relay de-energises, all is normal again.

If the relay is REALLY borderline, it might release sometimes, and not others.

How to test?

As you flick between hi & lo, do the spots stay on each time, every time? Or do they go off sometimes? If they go off sometimes, does it make a difference if the engine is on or off?

If this could be the problem, stick some additional resistance in series with the relay coil - if the circuit starts to behave properly, you could simply leave it there, or re-design your circuit to eliminate the problem.

i did have that thought, that there might be some residule energy somewhere. its only a recent thing, and it is curently happening all the time, everytime. my theory on testing it was to put the multimeter on the trigger wire when the hi beam was off... if there is anything there i figure im getting a leak from somewhere...

[bazzle]

Its prob neg switched and youve prob just run a wire to the high and lthe other to earth.
You need to run across the 2 wires going to the high element.

Bazzle

[macca81]

Its prob neg switched and youve prob just run a wire to the high and lthe other to earth.
You need to run across the 2 wires going to the high element.

Bazzle

factory wiring is neg switched, this loom is pos switched.

if i had run a wire to the hi and another to earth on a neg switched car, it wouldnt do anything at all...

[-Scott-]

Check carefully on high beam - do you have both filaments on, or only one?

If both are coming on, you could have your relay coil energised through the high beam filament when your low beam is on (i.e. low beam filament in parallel with (high beam filament + relay coil in series))

When relay is off, there's not enough current to pull in. When relay is on, there's enough current to hold in.

If you only have one filament on at a time, then I don't think this is your problem.

Quick fix: re-wire the coil circuit to across the two outside pins of one of your H4 globes.

[90HiLuXSuRf]

Couldn't you just disconnect the headlight plug then try spotlights if its still sticking then your relay is no good