rebuilding lux front brakes

[DUDELUX]

Hey ho, Ive done a search and looked through the bible.
My front drivers side brake caliper is leaking, its been seeping out for the last week and a half, just being topped up every couple of days, the fluid resovoir hasnt been empty, just low enough for the brake light to come on the dash.
Its a LN65(86 lux).
Im assuming that its time to get a seal kit and rebuild them.
I just want to know whats involved in rebuilding the calipers, how hard is it.
New pads were fitted not that long ago(only about 2 months ago), and I had new lines fitted about 18months ago.
Its only on the drivers side, should I rebuild both sides to be sure??
I am mechanically minded, I just dont know what Im doing.
I have previosly been as unsure on rebuilding hubs/cvs/axles but got some info off here and did it myself, so Im not scared of getting into it and having a go.
I could just take it somewhere to get done, but Id rather save some cash and do it myself if I can.
Thanks.

[trains]

Get a gregories manual, or similar and you will be fine.
Yes, do both sides.
Get some rubber grease in a tube for reassembly.
Remove pads, pump out pistons from calipers, but dont pop them out unless all the pistons have come out near evenly, which will make it easier to remove the pistons once the calipers are apart.

Once you have split the caliper, and cleaned up the pistons with scotchbrite pad, so as to remove the pitting debrits, but not score the pistons.
Clean out the lands where the seals go, and ensure they are clean.

Apply rubber grease to the seals, and fit, apply liberally to the caliper wall above the seal, and on the piston, and gently and squarely fit the cleaned piston, ensuring you dont pinch the lip of the seal in the process.
This is pretty much the most difficult part, gentle, but constant pressure will seat the seal back in its recess, and the piston will slide smoothly down.

Refit, bleed, pump out pistons once pads are fitted, and apply firm brake pressure, check for leaks, and your good to go.
Ensure that upon first brake application, that its even, and they release etc on your test drive.

Have a beer now knowing that youve done a good job.

Another thing, when bleeding, dont use the full travel of the pedal, but only half of it, this way you minimise damage to the mcyld seals if there is any pitting, or corrosion in the mcyld beyond its normal sweep when in use.

Trains

[DUDELUX]

You make it sound so easy

[LUXOUT]

the only bit I will add is if the pistons are pitted/scored after they have been cleaned replace them,they are not expensive.If they are good reuse them.

[joel HJ60]

Get a gregories manual, or similar and you will be fine.
Yes, do both sides.
Get some rubber grease in a tube for reassembly.
Remove pads, pump out pistons from calipers, but dont pop them out unless all the pistons have come out near evenly, which will make it easier to remove the pistons once the calipers are apart.

Once you have split the caliper, and cleaned up the pistons with scotchbrite pad, so as to remove the pitting debrits, but not score the pistons.
Clean out the lands where the seals go, and ensure they are clean.

Apply rubber grease to the seals, and fit, apply liberally to the caliper wall above the seal, and on the piston, and gently and squarely fit the cleaned piston, ensuring you dont pinch the lip of the seal in the process.
This is pretty much the most difficult part, gentle, but constant pressure will seat the seal back in its recess, and the piston will slide smoothly down.

Refit, bleed, pump out pistons once pads are fitted, and apply firm brake pressure, check for leaks, and your good to go.
Ensure that upon first brake application, that its even, and they release etc on your test drive.

Have a beer now knowing that youve done a good job.

Another thing, when bleeding, dont use the full travel of the pedal, but only half of it, this way you minimise damage to the mcyld seals if there is any pitting, or corrosion in the mcyld beyond its normal sweep when in use.
Trains

Good explanations Trains.

Emphasis on the highlighted text.

[DUDELUX]

Ok thanks guys, Ive got the seal kits now($25 a side), a couple of bottles of brake fluid, and some brake cleaner, Ill be having a crack at it tomorrow and sunday if needed.
I have got a set of spare axles/brakes in the shed, so my plan is to pull one of the calipers apart to see what Im in for before I start on the ute.
Like a practice run so I have a chance to learn how everything comes apart.
Now the only part that worries me is bleeding after Ive fitted everything back together.
Its a 2 person job, that I know, I can get one of my older kids to pump brake pedal to help, but what is the best way to bleed my brakes??
The rears are drums and the handbrake runs them, is that right??
Will I have to bleed rears as well as fronts??
I know its probably a dumb question, but, I dont want to ass that bit up, especially when I need my brakes to work properly.
Advise me guys.
Thanks

[RAY185]

Bleed front and rear to be sure to be sure.

Start at left rear, then right rear, then left front, then right front.

Have the child of your choice sit in the drivers seat. Clear hose on the bleed nipple and into a bottle (you can buy this at supercheap, etc). Crack the bleeder and have the chosen one pump the pedal a few times ensuring they do not go to the floor as said(halfway is plenty). Ensure that at no time the master cyl resevoir runs out of fluid. While the pedal is pumping watch for bubbles in the line. If you are confident there are no bubbles and just a steady stream of fluid, ask the chosen one to hold the pedal in the down position. Close the bleeder. Ask them to release the pedal. Open the bleeder. Pedal down, then close the bleeder again. Repeat this (not the pumping part, just the up/down/open/close) a couple of times on that wheel to make absolutely sure there is no air in that circuit and move on to the next wheel finishing at right front.

So to reiterate, bleeder closed on the up stroke and open on the down stroke. DON'T FORGET TO TOP UP THE FLUID BETWEEN WHEEL BLEEDING.

This should all be in the manual you refer to when rebuilding your calipers.

[popeyehj60]

just to add u close the nipple at the bottom of the stroke before they bring the pedal up otherwise if u close whilst there releasing pedal it will suck air.

Another note it can take a couple of goes of going to each wheel to get all the air out of the system.

[4RUNNER_01]

Easiest way is get a '1 man brake bleeder kit' i got mine from peps $10 and get a manual for the lux so you can just follow the instructions.

Then to bleed it, you just fit the hose of the bleeder kit to the nipples and quarter fill the bottle of it then pump the brakes very slowly checking every now and then it hasnt overfilled and your resivour hasnt run low.

Also dont forget to bleed the proportioning valve at the back after pulling your brakes apart you wanna make sure there's no air anywhere in the system and with your new kit its very easy!

Cheers

[DUDELUX]

What exactly is in a 1 man brake bleeding kit??
From what Ive seen, its just some clear hose and a bottle.
Couldnt I make the same thing with some clear hose and an empty bottle??
Im fairly confident of rebuilding the calipers now, but Im really worried about the bleeding part, the last time I had to bleed brakes was when I was a gokart mechanic, and it was just 1 set of calipers, and we used a big bottle with a hand pumper thing on the lid of the bottle, which had some hose going to the fluid resovoir on the kart, all we did there was, screw the lid from the bottle onto the resovoir, undo the bleed screw, pump the thing on top of the bottle until clean fluid came out, then put the bleed screw back, then do the same for the other side.
It was a single disc on rear axle.
Not like the lux, drums on rear, discs on front, bleeed each in order.

[4RUNNER_01]

No you cant really make it, it has a valve in it so you dont have to open/close the nipple when bleeding.

And as said a few times read the manual it walks you through it so you cant stuff up!

[DUDELUX]

An update.
I had a go at it today, pulled the drivers side caliper off, got the pads out, pulled the caliper apart, got the ring and boots off, and could only get 1 piston out, none of the others would come out, no matter how much compressed air went in. The piston that did come out had alot of rough stuff on it, looked like rust.
So, I went to my spare axle/brakes, pulled the calipers off, and instead of me rebuilding the calipers from the lux, I ended up replacing the drivers side caliper with a spare.
I didnt even bother looking at the passenger side. The drivers side was the leaking one anyway.
So once that was done, I thought Id try my luck at bleeding the system.
So Im armed with the printout of this thread, 2 different owners manuals, a 1 man bleeder kit and absolutlely no idea of what Im doing(what could possibly go wrong ).
I loosened the bleed screw on the left rear, some dirty fluid started to drip out, and to put a long story short, the alleged 1 man bleeder kit is a POS, doesnt work, so I took the valve thing off the end of it, and got my 6yr old daughter to help me, as the older kids were off with their friends, shes not tall enough to reach the pedal, and not strong enough to push the pedal down, so that went nowhere as well.
So thats where Im up to at the moment.
The front is up on jack stands, and the rear is up on the jack, the front wheels are off, the left rear wheel is off and I think Ive given up on trying to do it myself.
So I will have to either get someone over to help me get the thing back on the road, or, get the lux towed to the local brake mechaninc and pay them to fix it.
I have seal kits for both sides here, the caliper on the passenger front hasnt been touched, the caliper on the drivers front is off my spare axle, the caliper off the front is in pieces at the moment, and the new pads are on the floor as well.
I have absolutely no idea at all on what I was doing.

[DUDELUX]

And the lux will probably sit where it is until I figure it all out.
Me thinks I shouldve just paid some1 in the first place, instead of trying to do it myself
I guess its time to start asking people for help







PS. Can anyone thats near Wyong and knows how brakes work, PLEASE contact me?? PLEASE

[dans-paj92]

you have never bled brakes before?
piss easy mate. 10mm spanner, a bottle and 1 man brake bleeder.
if you have 2 people than thats even better.
Press the pedal until fluid comes out, you can see if air is in the system.
While pressing the pedal close the bleed nipple.
Move onto the next one.
Rear left 1st, rear right 2nd, passenger front 3rd, drivers front 4th and LSPV last.
Always make sure the fluid doesnt get too low or you have to start all over again and nver re-use brake fluid.
Cheers
Dan

[DUDELUX]

Hey Dan
Its been a long time since Ive had to bleed car brakes.
I was trying to bleed the left rear, with a supposed 1man bleeder kit, but it was a POS, the 1 way valve thing didnt work. So I removed the 1way valve.
So when I was pushing the brake pedal about halfway down, I was watching the fluid come through the hose and into a bottle I had there, by the time I lifted off the pedal, air was going up the tube into the brakes.
I then got my 6yr old to sit in the drivers seat and push the pedal for me so I could tighten the bleed screw, but she is too short to reach the pedal, and she didnt really understand what I needed her to do, the older kids were out with their friends and Mrs D was getting dinner ready.
I was really frustrated with the whole situation today, first the caliper that I took off the drivers side wouldnt come apart(ie; only 1 out of 4 pistons came out), so I had to take the brakes off the spare front axle and use that.
So now Ive got my near new brake pads sitting with the caliper on the floor, and the spare caliper which I fitted has old pads, they still have heaps of meat on them though.
Plus I have 2x caliper seal kits sitting here.
And then I couldnt bleed the system.
Very annoyed with myself.
So the lux is in the shed tonight, all 4 wheels are back on, and tomorrow Ill figure out what Im going to do with it.
I dont really want to pull the calipers apart now just in case the same thing happens again.
Id like to rebuild them just for peace of mind but now Im paranoid they will be as bad as the one I took off.
I dont know, Its a job for tomorrow Dudelux, tonight Dudelux is having beers and playing grand theft auto for stress relief.
Ill post up anything that happens with it.
Thanks for the help and support guys. I appreciate it.

[flyology]

If the one way valve one man bleed kit doesn't work try this:

get a clear bottle or jar, one that holds a fair capacity, half a litre should do it. 1/4 to 1/3 fill it with brake fluid. Use your clear hose, on the nipple, put it into the bottle/jar make sure the end is in the brake fluid and it stays there.

pump the brakes slowly, and the jar will fill up, ensure the master cylinder is kept topped up.

What this does is removes air from the system, but stops the air returning into the caliper or cylinder as it will suck in the brake fluid. You will use a fair bit of brake fluid with this method, but it works for one person.

When the fluid is coming out clean, you are done. It pays to empty the bottle the fluid is going into frequently so you have clean fluid in there.

NOTE: When opening the brake bleed nipple, it doesn't need to be wide open, just cracked so fluid comes out, make sure your clear hose is a tight fit on the bleed nipple. Bleed calipers/cylinder till clean new fluid comes out in the jar. Bleed brakes in order, most distant from master cylinder first (rear left, rear right, front left, front right)

[flyology]

And another I have also used:



Cut a length of 4x2 pine and use it as a bat to get your frustrations out.... Just kidding.

Cut the pine so it fits between the base/front of the drivers seat and the brake pedal when it is depressed. Pump the pedal a few times, hold it half way down, wedge your piece of 4x2 pine (or other suitable item) in there so it holds the pedal down. Then go and crack the nipple, bleed, tighten, and repeat till you get new clean fluid with no bubbles in it. Very time consuming, but saves on brake fluid

[De-lux]

I've done this recently on my BJ40.

Just a word of warning, this took a mate and I both a full day to do but we rebuilt the calipers and added new rotors & pads (recommended).

[DUDELUX]

Like I posted above.
The plan was to rebuild both front calipers, I went out and bought 2x seal kits, a heap of brake fluid and some brake cleaner.
The drivers side caliper is leaking.
I started by taking off front wheels, and had the front end on jack stands.
I started on the drivers side, got the pads out(the pads are only about 2 months old), I got the caliper off and apart, got the retaining ring and boot off, and tried to get the pistons out, but only 1 out of the 4 pistons came out. Its like the other 3 pistons are seized in(the brakes seemed to work fine before, just leaking and using lots of fluid).
I have spare axles in my shed(with brakes,etc), so I took the calipers of the spare front and replaced the drivers side with the spare.
Tried to bleed the system but couldnt do it alone. Thats where its up to at the moment.
The pasenger side front hasnt been touched yet. But the passenger side has the new pads, and the drivers side, which is now the spare, has older pads.
It was extremely frustrating yesterday.
I thought I could do the job myself, as I rebuilt the front axle late last year, by myself, with no idea on how to, and that works good.
The lux isnt going anywhere until its all sorted, and I know that the brakes will work.

[flyology]

Bleed the brakes as I have described above, I guarantee it will work.

As for the pistons in the calipers, I put V6 calipers on the front of my cruiser and had the same problem. I ended up taking the calipers to a brake reconditioner and having them do it, loads easier. get yours going again, send your spare calipers away and then fit them when you get the back. It sounds like you will need new pistons, which could mean the bores are damaged and need to be sleeved. Don't experiment with brakes, its too dangerous.

[DUDELUX]

The piston that did come out did have some rough rust stuff, it was rough, and the bore it came from was fairly rough as well.
Are they worth keeping in this condition??
I thought the same thing, send them off to get rebuilt, then fit later.
A mate has offered to come and help me bleed the system this arvo, just waiting to hear from him.
At least Ill be able to get around.

[dans-paj92]

Just buy the v6 brakes from locktup4x4. They are brand new items and are bigger.

[dans-paj92]

correction, they are the IFS front ones and are bigger. May as well change the pads and machine the rotors while your at it.
Saves having to do it all down the track.

[DUDELUX]

To update the brakes.
I bled the system by myself this arvo, I had a glass jar half full of clean fliud, with 1 end of some clear hose in the jar, and the other end on the bleed nipple/screw.
I bled the left rear, right rear, left front, right front, then the valve thing at the back.
All good, except the bleed valve on the right front was clogged, so I gave it good clean with some brake cleaner and brake fluid and an old toothbrush.
Put it back in, and now I have to bleed the system again to make sure theres no air in it anywhere.
Now, I have a question.
The caliper that I put on(the spare) wont let the hub/disc spin, its like the pads are locked on. Is this caliper stuffed as well??
Ill know for sure after I bleed the whole lot again tomorrow, as Im sure theres air in it.
I just need more brake fliud and more daylight.
I managed to bleed it ok thanks to everyone in this thread and a mate that gave his tips as well. A massive thankyou to you all.


And Dan, maybe 1 day I will be able to afford to replace the front brakes, with SR5 V6 front calipers from the searching Ive done. Apparently, they bolt straight on.
But all thats a while away yet, I have to have the lux running properly so I can at least get to work and the local wheeling spots too.

Yesterday, I was a bit pissed off at the whole situation, but Im in a much better mood tonight.

Thanks again everyone.

[Frankenyota]

If the wheel is dragging the pistons are probaly seized in the caliper.
If you can pull the pistons out of the calipers, get the calipers sandblasted and replace with new pistons and seals.

Also make sure your wheel bearings are adjusted properly.
If your not confident in playing with the brakes take it to a mechanic, as brakes are not something to gamble with as already said.

Good luck
Matt

[4RUNNER_01]

Mate put it this way if your having trouble bleeding the brakes then don't bother trying to rebuild them, its a much more difficult job then anything you've done by the sounds of it.

Also it's hard to believe that if you had a workshop manual with you, you couldn't bleed them properly and the method you used i'm sure was stated in the book.
And if you had a proper 1 man bleeder kit that didnt work did you think to read the packet or ask the manufacturer why? my bet is there's supposed to be a short length of hose that goes into the fluid in the jar that was left out or not enough fluid in it.

Dont rely on outers so much for things like this because if you do get bad info from somebody just talking shit it could be dangerous ALWAYS refer to the book or maybe a professional....

[DUDELUX]

Just to update my progress with this.
I bled the entire system again today, and got all the air out of the system, took it for a test drive down the street and back then around the block, the brakes work fine, there doesnt seem to be any drag from the calipers yet, but time will tell.
The reason I was confused with bleeding the brakes is that the 2 owners manuals I have are both worded differently and they are confusing at the best of times.
The way I bled the brakes was to have a jar 1/2 full of clean brake fluid, a length of clear hose, 1 end in the brake fluid, and the other on the bleed screw. Doing it this way seemed so much easier.
As for the 1man bleed kit, it was a POS and a waste of my 10bucks, I had some clear tube and a jar here which I used instead.
The plan is to take the calipers that arent on the lux to get rebuilt using all the bits that are here, and the seal kits I have. then once they are done, fit the rebuilt calipers. Either that, or upgrade to bigger V6 calipers.
From the maintenance that Ive done and the bits that Ive had to replace since Ive had the lux, Id guess that the brakes havent been apart in a while, if theyve ever been apart, after all, the lux is 24yrs old now, so stuff is well used.

Thankyou to everyone that has helped me with this problem.

Ill have a beer or 2 for you guys.
Thaks again guys.
Dudelux

[Narrowscopeofreality]

This thread made me laugh. Reminds me of me.

1. Find problem.
2. Do some reading.
3. Decide I can do it, pull apart.
4. Hit snag.
5. Panic.
6. Decide pulling apart wasn't the best idea.
7. Try again.
8. Take some skin off knuckles.
9. Crack the shits, swear, throw tools around and curse the day Toyotas were made.
10. Leave part in bits.
11. Sleep.
12. Wake up and fix part.
13. Marvel at how smart I am for overcomming the 'shitarse design' of whatever it was.

[DUDELUX]

Glad you enjoyed it.
It wasnt my finest day, thats for sure.

[oldmate]

when you were trying to get the pistons out of the calipers, did you have a block of wood or something in so they dont all come flying out? once one pistion is completely out then all the air you put in will come straight out of that one caliper cylinder.

if you cant get all four to pop with workshop air - 100psi or so then the pistons are probably siezed good. You can try levering the pistons out with screwdrivers, or try rotating them with vicegrips to loosen the rust hold, or hammer them to buggery with a bfh. the later will also help aleviate frustration. However once you get them all out you will probably find the pistions and calipers are shot anyway.

Over all I wouldn't say caliper rebuilding is a hard job, but like any job if you haven't done it before it will take time and paitence just because you don't know those little tricks to make it easy.

For the cost of seals and a little time it's worth resealing the calipers every 80k or so.

Onto bleeding, do as flyology says. Can't beat the old school method. hose in a coke bottle with fluid in the bottom, and it can't draw air back up. Those pressure bleeders you talk of aren't supposed to be used with modern cars with abs and all that anyway. not that it affects an old hilux, but it's money you don't have to spend