which intercooler for a big hp turbo'd patrol

[offroader-rama]

hi all bear with me i was going to build up a LPG dedicated 383 then i found a 454 so i started to twin turbo it.
Then after a lot of thought I decided that a tuff td42t will do every thing i want for my project so I am collecting all parts needed for my new project and i am up to researching intercoolers.
It is a big hp compounded 02 td42 its main purpose will be touring / tow, but will be very capable off road as well.
I am looking at running injected LPG and around 35psi from the compounded turbos.
I was going to make custom inlet that allowed an inlet from front of engine like the cigar gtr skyline ones and run a front mount intercooler, but when off road it will be useless.
So i have to look else were, I have a water to air intercooler on my sierra of a subaru, cheap and works well, but i cant seem to sorce anything of a donor car that will work with the project above.
is there some sort of formula to work out size for cooling and airflow etc.
I have google'd some interesting projects but had no feed back.
any one here got any ideas.
(and no the twin turbo'd 454 is not for sale i have another plan for it now )

[Dzltec]

Laminova is the way to go. The more cooler size the better....also lots of water capacity. Only 35psi from your compound? Why not go higher?



Andy

[Clanky]

www.are.com.au

some good info here to kick off your research

[offroader-rama]

i want to go higher boost just worried about head lifting of i have looked into decompression plates but cant find any one to do one i may run the thickest head gasket available with head studs and push upto 40 45psi have you had any expertease here.
also with the Laminova I gather you refer to the cores and design my own houseing??
i am looking at them now but cant figure out what goes were as there is a hole around 25mm up the guts then a series of holes surrounding that then the fins, i assume the air goes past the fins to cool but does the water go in the larger hole or the smaller holes, i am also reading of guys useing refrigderation gas, a air con compresser and condensor instead of water sounds awsome in thoery have you any info here??

[offroader-rama]

thats for that clanky some great work done there i have sent an email see were it takes me !!.

[toughnut]

If you want to run a front mount which would be the most efficient. Just run thermo fans. It'll let you have a bit more hp in your engine too. Spal fans are the best that I've found. It solves your problem of slow running and the intercooler not having enough air to be efficient.

[offroader-rama]

i am getting pretty excited about a water to air cooler to be honest i have been doing heaps of research and found some cool systems.
and keeping things neat and tidy will be good as well.
if i go front mount i want to make a custom inlet manifold but if i am going to go to that much trouble i may as well make it the intercooler at the same time it is just coming down to cores and size, also water pump and radiator to suit.

[toughnut]

There are a couple of systems that have been made to bolt on in place of the intake manifold already and work quite well. It comes down to having a good radiator in a good area to keep it cool. Stick with the thermo fans though. They'll make a huge difference. Also, with all the extra boost and power that you are looking at most guys I've seen run these high figures (including me) have mostly run a second radiator and a good oil cooler to help with the engine and exhaust temps.

[offroader-rama]

i have a pirometer and i am grafting to gu radiators together with custom tanks doubling the size of the standed one.
i have seen a few custom inlet / intercoolers but havent seen any for sale as yet.
i know a few people that can weld alloy so i may make my have my own ideas made up if i cant buy something allready done.

[coxy321]

also with the Laminova I gather you refer to the cores and design my own houseing??
i am looking at them now but cant figure out what goes were as there is a hole around 25mm up the guts then a series of holes surrounding that then the fins, i assume the air goes past the fins to cool but does the water go in the larger hole or the smaller holes...

Why not buy one of the pre-fabbed one's that Matt McInnes is selling? Or if you're super keen, get them to fab up a one-off for your truck.

Regardless - make sure you get a build thread happening, or at least post ome pics!

[toughnut]

i have a pirometer and i am grafting to gu radiators together with custom tanks doubling the size of the standed one.
i have seen a few custom inlet / intercoolers but havent seen any for sale as yet.
i know a few people that can weld alloy so i may make my have my own ideas made up if i cant buy something allready done.

Sounds like an awesome project. Make sure you post up the pics. I'd be interested to see them. The radiator sounds like a good idea too. A remote oil cooler maks a big difference as well to your engine temps. You've obviously done some serious homework.

[offroader-rama]

i wanted to build something thats affordable to run and run all day everyday and be able to pull a frieght train hence the original idea of the twin turbo'd 454 dedicated to LPG but after a lot of thought and arm twisting half way through building up the 454 that i brought everything for including adaptors etc I abandend the idea and went for a td42 my first real diesel i might add lol other that a mazda bravo pffft i know a half car lol
so as you can imagine what it took to twist my arm from a twin turbo'd 454 to a little 4.2 ltr diesel.
it was inspired by the compounded turbo'd cummins build ups in the states and the figures they achieve all day everyday even while in a 3500kg truck pulling 6 ton of what ever acheiving around 10 ltrs per 100ks and making 600-800 hp at 4000rpm and stupidly high torque figures with quarter mile times down as low as 11's with there tow rigs
that a twin turbo'd 454 wouldnt come close to.
now a td42 isnt a 6B cummins but there a very well built jap engine that handle plenty of abuse i have the last of the td42 before they went computer so i have the best manual fuel pump they have, it only has 120,000 on it, so why not i say.

[toughnut]

Have you seen this?

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37456

I got better fuel economy from mine after the rebuild and 187kw at the wheels with 1600nm of torque. Bottom end was pretty much stock but a lot of work on the head and GT42/35 turbo running 18psi. No mods to the injector pump. Just wound up during dyno tune. One of the things that I never got around to but was told to put in a petrol cam shaft on the diesel engine. Slightly higher lift and longer duration. I sold my truck so I didn't get to pull the head down again to compare the two cams and see if it was worth it.

[ludacris]

Have you seen this?

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37456

I got better fuel economy from mine after the rebuild and 187kw at the wheels with 1600nm of torque. Bottom end was pretty much stock but a lot of work on the head and GT42/35 turbo running 18psi. No mods to the injector pump. Just wound up during dyno tune. One of the things that I never got around to but was told to put in a petrol cam shaft on the diesel engine. Slightly higher lift and longer duration. I sold my truck so I didn't get to pull the head down again to compare the two cams and see if it was worth it.

And when is the new truck being built.

Cris

[toughnut]

Just put a deposit on a GQ shorty that already has quite a few mods. Still a lot to do. I'll be giving you a call for a few things in the next couple of months.

[offroader-rama]

i did see that thread i registed on that site when i found it so i could post but for some reason it didnt work he did a nice job a little different to what i am doing and i think a lot of work for the low boost he runs but nice work none the less, mine will be compounded and honestly wont be as pretty thats not the intention it just hast to work well. i will be useing a to4e and a t70/gt35 combo.

[Clanky]

Saw this site today, could give you more ideas

http://www.northside4x4.com.au/?page_id=311

[Big fish]

check out cross country 4x4 intercoolers in SA I run an ultimate kit on my gu, modeled off of my work ute this cooler seems to be efficient and work well under load, top mounted running a single thermo,and bigger intake on bonnet

[Big fish]

Sorry forgot to let u know my GU TD42 also runs 180rwkw cooler works well, alot easier to set up, less pipe work cheaper !!

[matt.mcinnes]

Laminova is the way to go. The more cooler size the better....also lots of water capacity. Only 35psi from your compound? Why not go higher?



Andy

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthre ... t=lAMinova

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showthre ... t=lAMinova

Regards Matt

[BadMav]

Go about halfway down the page, so very nice work...

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic104 ... sc-540.php

[huntingqtas]

Sorry forgot to let u know my GU TD42 also runs 180rwkw cooler works well, alot easier to set up, less pipe work cheaper !!

i have a ultimate kit ordered at the moment,what else have you done to your motor???stock turbo??pump work??180rwkw is a fair bit mate

[offroader-rama]

Thanks all for the replys.

and a big hello matt love your work
I have been very impressed by your research into luminova cores the dedication you have put into it is huge, you obviously have learnt a lot since you started.
I think i have read every post on every forum you have written about these!!! this it took 2 days just getting through the main write up you have on here, trying to sift through the fact and fiction between all the post amongst it all.

I have a few tech questions of my own which i dont think i ever saw any one else ask you should i ask on here or do you have a phone No. maybe.

[Big fish]

Sorry forgot to let u know my GU TD42 also runs 180rwkw cooler works well, alot easier to set up, less pipe work cheaper !!

i have a ultimate kit ordered at the moment,what else have you done to your motor???stock turbo??pump work??180rwkw is a fair bit mate

Garrett 2876 turbo, MTQ race pump, 3 inch exaust and dump, custom air box, running 35 s.

[marin]

SNIP

I have a few tech questions of my own which i dont think i ever saw any one else ask you should i ask on here or do you have a phone No. maybe.

Ask on here, Matt has never hidden ANY info about these coolers.

[offroader-rama]

i spoke to him on the phone, he is a nice guy to deal with.

Q. my question was why not weld cores in and run header tanks at each end with one inlet and one outlet at each end doing away with end caps and excess plumping ie making it much simpler / cheaper.

A. his responce was that, he dosent believe that if the core was welded in that the longevity could be guarantied, as he believes that the cores may break away around the welds causing deadly leaks, having the orings allows the unit to flex with out any issues.


thats a fare call i believe.
its an awsome unit but its the dollars that scares me, i can see why he charges what he does but when you can get a universal type for around $300 compared to his at $1500 you have to get down to the nitty gritty.

my pros and cons ( just typing aloud )
matts manifolds
1. i do believe matts are superior in design and work man ship.
2. as its in the manifold it realy opens up manifold allowing it to breath.
3. compact for a neater engine bay.

universal type
1. universal cost cheaper.
2. a lot less plumbing on the water side of it.

IMHO if i was to go with a universal type i would still need to have a custom made manifold made to allow the flow i need.
I would need to allow for the extra pipe work from turbo to cooler then back to intake and the brackets to fit it all, also rearange the engine bay for fitment.

i think i have talked myself into one of matts lol

[coxy321]

Is it me, or does it seem rude to compare a $300 generic cooler with a McInnes Laminova?

I know your not having a dig at Matt, but you're comparing two items that are clearly at at opposite ends of the spectrum from each other.

Just sayin.

[marin]

i think i have talked myself into one of matts lol

Hehe good work. With the right size radiator, you won't be disappointed, and don't skimp on the fans either. Any cooling issues with mine are quite simply put down to the radiator we chose being too thin, plus I burnt out a Spal fan and can't afford another atm (there were 2 on the front to start with).

[ledgend80]

here is what i have done so far with one of matts kits

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic201 ... highlight=

[garth]

when you look at the over all importance of the intercooler and the engines dependence on manageable EGT's. Its not a hard decision - especially when you have already spent 20 odd K on the rest of the engine.

Its not cheap - but I know what my next build will have bolted to the head!!!

Regards

PS: Marin, what size radiator did you use and is it the biggest that'll fit behind the grill with the AC condenser still in place?