What to do for the rear?

[Wolverine]

G'day

I am looking at putting longer springs in the rear of my zuk to get some better flex.

If I want to do this by moving the rear mounting point forward, how do I figure out how far I have to move the hanger pin. Is there any set method for measuring this or is it a matter of trial and error.

Also what springs are people using for the rear. I have read about the cj springs (front or rear?) and hilux.

Any help?

[SAWZALL]

Going thru this atm

RRO sell a relocation kit (see Redzook) It is made for YJ's tho he runs Feroza springs

Are you gonna run SPOA?

Are you gonna run a track bar?

Do you want to stay with standard wheelbase?

What height do you want to run?

What are you after articulation/ride?

What springs are readily available to you?

Are you thinking new springs or second hand?

Do you want to mess with wider springs and the messing around involved in U bolts?

Can you fabricate or would you prefer a bolt on kit?

Do you want to inboard the springs?

Street driving or trail only?

Engineered or hope for the best?

[redzook]

Going thru this atm

TRAIL TOUGH (bought through Overkill) sell a relocation kit (see Redzook) It is made for YJ's tho he runs Feroza springs

Are you gonna run SPOA?

Are you gonna run a track bar?

Do you want to stay with standard wheelbase?

What height do you want to run?

What are you after articulation/ride?

What springs are readily available to you?

Are you thinking new springs or second hand?

Do you want to mess with wider springs and the messing around involved in U bolts?

Can you fabricate or would you prefer a bolt on kit?

Do you want to inboard the springs?

Street driving or trail only?

Engineered or hope for the best?

[nicbeer]

Ok, me thinking same.

SPUA
Yes
If needed I can.
Low Cog would be good. to run 31's
articluation
Hilux, most others
new prob
no
prefer bolt on
It's NT at moment so already imboard I think.
both
hope.

Going thru this atm
RRO sell a relocation kit (see Redzook) It is made for YJ's tho he runs Feroza springs
Are you gonna run SPOA?
Are you gonna run a track bar?
Do you want to stay with standard wheelbase?
What height do you want to run?
What are you after articulation/ride?
What springs are readily available to you?
Are you thinking new springs or second hand?
Do you want to mess with wider springs and the messing around involved in U bolts?
Can you fabricate or would you prefer a bolt on kit?
Do you want to inboard the springs?
Street driving or trail only?
engineered or hope for the best?

[Wolverine]

Ok let me explain. I have ordered the RRO ruf bolt-on kit and seeing the basic theory behind wanted to see if I could replicate something similar for the rear.

The setup will be run in SPUA and I can get a trackbar if needed.

I was looking for a bit of an increase in both artic and ride and was looking at running most probably second hand cj springs (stock or no higher than 2inch) as they are same width as zuk ones. Is there any others available the same length?

Now there is a kit for the rear for these springs but it looks so simple to make all I need to know is how do you figure out how far back to put the pin.

Will probably try to keep the wheelbase same length and would prefer to try and fabricate. Engineering should not be a problem but the vehicle will be used as a daily driver aswell.

Cheers

[redzook]

Ok let me explain. I have ordered the RRO ruf bolt-on kit and seeing the basic theory behind wanted to see if I could replicate something similar for the rear.

The setup will be run in SPUA and I can get a trackbar if needed.

I was looking for a bit of an increase in both artic and ride and was looking at running most probably second hand cj springs (stock or no higher than 2inch) as they are same width as zuk ones. Is there any others available the same length?

Now there is a kit for the rear for these springs but it looks so simple to make all I need to know is how do you figure out how far back to put the pin.

Will probably try to keep the wheelbase same length and would prefer to try and fabricate. Engineering should not be a problem but the vehicle will be used as a daily driver aswell.

Cheers

i THINK u can just bolt CJ's up with just a longer shacklemight move your diff back an inch or somthin but that will help with the ride

with my RUF an feroza's in the rear an 5inch longer WB it rides really smooth

[Wolverine]

So if I were to look at something a bit longer, would the distance I move the hanger back be equal to the distance increase between the two eyes.

for instance will the length that is required between the two pins on the zook be the same as the factory length of the two pin on the vehicle you are obtaining the springs from.

Does that make sense.

[Wolverine]

OK I picked up some cheap cj7 springs today.

They are about 6 inches longer than the zook rears so I am looking at fitting them with a 3inch relocation bracket on the front hanger and missing link on the rear. (only because I just came across some of them pretty cheap aswell).

So firstly the springs are a seven spring pack so how many and which one should I dump to run this spring in the rear of my 86 hardtop.

Secondly what are peoples thoughts on the missing link, I know people bag climax but I guess even if they don't work that well they still give me the extra length to fit the spring.

Cheers.

[greg]

Wolverine - looks like you've picked up a bit of a bargain there - good to see.

The norm is to start at the shortest spring and keep removing them until you get to the spring rate that you want. This may include the removal of those brackets that wrap around some of the leaves.

Whilst you're at it - you could take all the leaves appart, grind / buff them smooth and re-grease before putting them all back together again.

Now - as for the relocating spring mounts - do some measuring at the back - i reckon you could probably do something like re-drill the chassis mount holes a bit further forward? That would save you some dosh.

Another idea - and a cheaper one, that may be worth while is going to be to check out changing to a 3/4 elyptic rear... This allows you to match up the positioning of the rear shackle to the same length as the CJ spring extends to. The other thing it will do is allow for lots of droop (just like the exteded shackles would) but this will be all controlled droop.

I'll hunt down some pics showing what i mean and post them up.

Other things to note:

1. These springs will require longer shocks - you knew that right?
2. If you relocate your axels (further backwards) you are going to need to do some stuff to your rear driveshaft length too.

Stay tuned for more info.

Cheers

[greg]

Okay, here's a few pics of Liam's "Unsafe"... It has CJ springs in the rear and as you can see - they don't extend massively far back from under the existing shackle mounts on the chassis, and he also has them mounted to just the regular holes on the chassis mount end of the spring.

This would suggest that the adaptor plate for changing the front mount bit is going to be excessive and possibly not required right?

Here's the link:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

[greg]

And, here's some details about setting up 3/4 in the back of your zook.

Check out page 3 for some pictures of a car in the zook club here that has just done this using hilux rear springs.

Note that there is heaps of travel, plus the springs stick out a little bit from the end of the chassis allowing the shackle to line up properly with the main spring.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... c&start=40

Hope that gives you some ideas about how to mount those springs.

Cheers

[grimbo]

you also may run into brake line issues, which could mean either new lines or moving brackets etc

[Wolverine]

Thanks for all your help guys.

I am not sue what springs liam is running, from what I have read the cj5/6 springs can go in pretty easy. I was looking for them but could not find any.
The cj7 springs however are even longer than them so they require a bit more movement of the components, but I will have a good look tonight.

The 3/4 rear was also another idea that I was considering. I saw one done at the shops today that had a simple locking device so he could lock the upper spring for on road and release them for off road to get the full use of the 3/4 setup.

To setup the 3/4 what spring do I use for the top. Should I use a rear zuk spring (I have a few lying around) or something else. Also which one is best to use.

Lastly whats is it recommended to bolt the top spring or can it be done with u bolts.

Now that you mentioned it the 3/4 will probably be the easist of the lot.

cheers

[grimbo]

I just used a left over rear spring that I cut down. Keep the the centre flat section and cut just past it, if that makes sense. I then attached it to the frame with two u bolts per spring spaced about 50mm apart. i have had this setup for about 6 years now and the u bolts haven't loosened and i experience no weird driving characteristics on road or off road. For me it was a great mod as it gave me more travel that was nice and progressive, as you are effectively lengthening your spring for a smoother softer flex.

On road I wouldn't bother pinning them unless you have to for legal reasons, i have had mine road worthied with the 3/4 eliptic in place a couple of times and nothing was ever said about it.

[greg]

Sorry Wolverine - do you have an NT and a WT?

[grimbo]

here are a couple of pics that sort of show what i did

[redzook]

is the center pin in the middle? looks like it is

if it is you will have to move your front mount forward

dont worry bout no buggy leaf gimmick
u will get enough flex out of the longer spring

[Wolverine]

Mines a narrow track so everything should line up.

I was thinking a bit more (strange)and figured this.
If the cj spring is approx 46" (6" over the 40" zuk rear) and i combine a front mount relocation of 3" and then run the 3/4 with the upper spring 3" further out than normal I should be able to run the setup and keep the diff in pretty much the same location and therefore not having to worry about moving anything or an excessively long drivelshaft.

As for the shocks and brakelines, once the setup is finished I will measure whats needed and go from there.

Thanks again guys

[redzook]

Mines a narrow track so everything should line up.

I was thinking a bit more (strange)and figured this.
If the cj spring is approx 46" (6" over the 40" zuk rear) and i combine a front mount relocation of 3" and then run the 3/4 with the upper spring 3" further out than normal I should be able to run the setup and keep the diff in pretty much the same location and therefore not having to worry about moving anything or an excessively long drivelshaft.

As for the shocks and brakelines, once the setup is finished I will measure whats needed and go from there.

Thanks again guys

if you move the front mount forward 3 inch just put on a bit longer shackle so its on a nice angle it will give u plenty of droop

will also ride better

[Wolverine]

so some people do not rate the 3/4?

[DeWsE]

Don't listen to them just do it so then I can copy if its any good

[grimbo]

so some people do not rate the 3/4?

I reckon it is a fantastic mod with a SPUA car but if go to the dark side and do a SPOA then i wouldn't. The extra leverage of a spoa will cause it do strange things whilst SPUA it doesn't have the same leverage acting on the springs which makes it more predictable and leads to a longer spring life. It is another way of getting a longer spring under your car without having to make new brackets (all you do is cut the shackle/frame mount off) and keeps the wheelbase the same which can be a good thing depending on the type of buildup you are doing (ie how stock you want it to remain looking)

PS notice how redzook is back to his old frisky self now that greg is back?

[Guy]

would it be possible to run 3/4 eleptic as well as standard .. So you make the spring thats bolted to the chassis stop just short of the normal fixed eye .. if you need to go for a roadworthy etc .. you can simply pull the shackle from the 3/4 and bolt it into the fixed eye .. for a "standard" type of setup .. ??

Possible ???

[DeWsE]

My understanding was that the spring is 6" longer then standard. so three inches would go to moving of the front spring mount and three would go to the rear. Which means that the spring eye would be 3" out of line. That would be a big shackle.

Then again I could be young and unexperienced and not know what a nut has to do with a bolt.

[Guy]

My understanding was that the spring is 6" longer then standard. so three inches would go to moving of the front spring mount and three would go to the rear. Which means that the spring eye would be 3" out of line. That would be a big shackle.

Then again I could be young and unexperienced and not know what a nut has to do with a bolt.

I was thinking more about a "normal" length spring like an OME Zuk spring ...

[greg]

My understanding was that the spring is 6" longer then standard. so three inches would go to moving of the front spring mount and three would go to the rear. Which means that the spring eye would be 3" out of line. That would be a big shackle.

Then again I could be young and unexperienced and not know what a nut has to do with a bolt.

I was thinking more about a "normal" length spring like an OME Zuk spring ...

I'm sure you could achieve it with some clever brackets or something that attach to the end of the chassis - in the same way that the chassis extension brackets work.

[grimbo]

would it be possible to run 3/4 eleptic as well as standard .. So you make the spring thats bolted to the chassis stop just short of the normal fixed eye .. if you need to go for a roadworthy etc .. you can simply pull the shackle from the 3/4 and bolt it into the fixed eye .. for a "standard" type of setup .. ??

Possible ???

you would probably need a longer shackle to angle back to the 3/4 spring which would then be too long for the normal setup. i suppose you could just swap shackles or maybe use a climax shackle. Have it in its folded position with the pin then when you want to run it with the 3/4 unpin it extend then pin it open if that is possible. Seems like a lot of fiddling around when you could just pin the half spring to the frame with another ubolt near the shackle

[redzook]

Seems like a lot of fiddling around

i hear what ya sayin mine bolted right up
didnt have to do no gay 3/4 an i still got more flex then ya

[Guy]

would it be possible to run 3/4 eleptic as well as standard .. So you make the spring thats bolted to the chassis stop just short of the normal fixed eye .. if you need to go for a roadworthy etc .. you can simply pull the shackle from the 3/4 and bolt it into the fixed eye .. for a "standard" type of setup .. ??

Possible ???

you would probably need a longer shackle to angle back to the 3/4 spring which would then be too long for the normal setup. i suppose you could just swap shackles or maybe use a climax shackle. Have it in its folded position with the pin then when you want to run it with the 3/4 unpin it extend then pin it open if that is possible. Seems like a lot of fiddling around when you could just pin the half spring to the frame with another ubolt near the shackle

sooo how is that different .. you undo two bolts to go from free floating 3/4 to undoing and doing moving and doing up one bolt .. not sure i see the difference .. execpt that the one with the fixed eye has no real engineering\legal ramifications ..

[Guy]

Seems like a lot of fiddling around

i hear what ya sayin mine bolted right up
didnt have to do no gay 3/4 an i still got more flex then ya

Actually having a look around .. I dont think that you do have more flex ...

especially given the increase in track width and extra weigh that shold be pulling those 46 inch flexi flyers down .. hmmm