SHOW US A PIC OF YOUR I\COOLER SETUP

[td42dan]

Im going to put a liquid to air I\COOLER on my 89 GQ TD42, turbo glide high mount system, 3' dump and exhaust
running 13 PSI boost, running 33" m\t tyres, 4.1 ratios, standard GQ pump re-built, got 133HP at the treads, pyro read roughly 270-300 degrees sitting on
100 k\ph. 406,000klms on the clock runs sweet.
Any one interested in posting a pic of there engine bay and a short yarn on before and after figure of install of I\COOLER would
be appreciated, oh and what sort of I\C.... THANKS
Im looking at a PWR barrell type, maybe the one that suits up to 270HP.....

[love ke70]

go the laminova.

i dont have any pics of mine finished, but its the shizz nizz

[td42dan]

go the laminova.

i dont have any pics of mine finished, but its the shizz nizz

Ive herd of that setup, what sort of cost are involved in that laminova I\COOLER?????

[love ke70]

theres a website with prices now i think.

have a search on here, im sure you will find it.

then you gotta get heat exchanger, the water pump, fans, and obviously airbox and pipework, so it adds up, but the cost of the cooler is worth it, it shits all over the barrel ones imo

[ledgend80]

try this

http://www.advancedhbintercoolers.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[td42dan]

try this

http://www.advancedhbintercoolers.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers for that, gee there pretty flash, will keep that site in mind, might give them a call and take it from there...

Do u or anyone u know have this set up??? and is it really worth the xtra $$$$'s especially for a touring \ play \ daily driver......

[love ke70]

i have it, i think its worth it.

have a look on here, theres two or three threads about the laminova

the guys that build them did all their testing and made it public on here, the figures are great.

i did a brisbane - kakadu - darwin - litchfield and back trip, which involved driving 10 hrs a day, for 3 days straight, in stinking heat, and my EGT's never got out of hand, yes the system heatsoaked, but mildly, and 3 minutes at idle was enough to bring EGTs back down to 150.

my old man has a 3 ltr GU with the top mount air to air, and battled with EGT's for alot of the trip

but i havnt used a different water to air to compare to, but theres a reason i didnt

[td42dan]

Can any one post a pic of there top mount liquid to air i\c just for some ideas????????????? CHEERS

[ledgend80]

when i pull my finger out and get mine finished i will be able to put some pics up. but they are not cheap and you get what u pay for

[matt.mcinnes]

try this

http://www.advancedhbintercoolers.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers for that, gee there pretty flash, will keep that site in mind, might give them a call and take it from there...

Do u or anyone u know have this set up??? and is it really worth the xtra $$$$'s especially for a touring \ play \ daily driver......

All you need to know here or you can just ask me

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... t=laminova" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Northside 4x4]

Would be really interesting to put them up against a normal water to air core.

[ledgend80]

he does have some good data. he has some comparing his coolers to a barrel type. best go and look at his info on the patrol forum or if you use the search function on here he has a couple of threads.

[matt.mcinnes]

Yes we have been tested back to back against a PWR barrel on an engine dyno.
By a very reputable UK engine builder. The results can be found on the patrol forum I think.
If you need a link let me know.
PWR suffered heat soak and did not make expected power. We held intake temps almost flat and made more than expected power without heat soaking.

EDIT
Link to info with link from that to data http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/477880-post372.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards Matt

[awill4x4]

Would be really interesting to put them up against a normal water to air core.

The pic and graphs below give a reasonable comparison. The Miller water to air was raved about on the USA boosted BMW forums so I went looking and found their data and laughed at the results.
The Miller i/cooler is typical of most water to air intercoolers in construction and design.
The vast majority of water to air cores are simply air to air cores modified to accept some sort of water flow (usually very badly, especially in the case of barrel coolers).
You'll notice on Millers own temp in and out graph just how quickly the post intercooler air inlet temps climb and their only semblance of control was artificially with water injection.
Compare our Laminova's, Matt's 40 series was the very 1st one we ever built and even Matt will admit the airflows into and out of the intercooler were something of a compromise.
Ben's one is typical, it was the 1st of our built into the manifold ones and Matt thrashed it prior to the dyno to heat soak the entire engine bay hence the high initial start temps but look how it hauled the heat out of the inlet temps and actually dropped inlet temps even as the boosted air out of the turbo soared in temperature.
This is something I've never seen before and really goes some way to prove just how efficiently they work at removing heat, and remember the air travels 2" or 50mm as it travels through a core and all its cooling is done in that short a distance.
Regards Andrew.

[awill4x4]

Would be really interesting to put them up against a normal water to air core.

It's difficult to get your head around as to how they work, believe me, I thought Matt was joking when he brought around a box of bits and said they were for an intercooler.
The cores almost look solid but it's the surface area in such a small package that makes them work and the best way to describe them is like thousands of razor blades cutting the air as it goes past.
Also the water channels as seen in the pic are close to where the fins bond to the central core and this in conjunction with such a large surface area is how they work so well at removing heat.
Regards Andrew.

[Northside 4x4]

Cheers for the responses.
Do do get how they work, I have tuned a couple of cars with them fitted in the past with ok results.
Mostly seen them used as oil coolers more than intercoolers though.

PWR Barrel though... I wont say to much but its not really a comparative test is it

I would say though the temp dropping like that could be for a few reasons. Mainly on setups with a boost switched pump it has a radiator full of ambient temperature water that starts getting fed into the cooler.
Or water being misted onto the radiator prior to the run will drop the temp even further due to the evaporation effect of it.

At the end of the day. Its awesome to see you have taken the time to test and prove the product. Which is more than I can say for most other people out there.

Shame it costs so much to build them, the best test would be same car 3-4 different cooler setups. Maybe we can get one of the magazine's to pay for the test

[matt.mcinnes]

Cheers for the responses.

I would say though the temp dropping like that could be for a few reasons. Mainly on setups with a boost switched pump it has a radiator full of ambient temperature water that starts getting fed into the cooler.
Or water being misted onto the radiator prior to the run will drop the temp even further due to the evaporation effect of it.

No fudging or use of any other methods other than stated, feel free to check with Andy at Diesel Tec.

As Awill stated I cairned it from Mitcham to Lillydale, it was put straight on the Dyno and did numerous back to back runs as it was tunned and tested. I could have dropped it in night before and tested, but that would not have taught us anything, we never set out to make intercoolers. The first was for my comp truck and it wiped the floor with intake temps, the second was for Marin my Navi's Mav as the first was so good. What we did learn from Marin's is Diesels need a much bigger heat exchanger as they live on boost. Custom heat exchanger came next for the Auto of Busman's Mav, A local to me who had taken an interest. His intake temps were better than Marin's. Both had pretty much the same setup DTS turbo kits.

Everything we have done is posted for all to see, they work exceptionally well. if they didn't it would be all over the forums.

Regards Matt

[fishmagnet]

I have just fitted one of Matt McInnes's Laminova intercooler to my gq , and i've gotta say the transformation is better than what dared hope for.
In the process of the install I did everything to ensure maximum benefit , so replaced air condition condensor , fitted a patrol docta high flow airbox, twin fans .
I tow a large box trailer that's three feet higher than the gq for anything up to a thousand km's.
The intercooler has transformed it from a truck that only dreamed of maintaining speed up hill to a one that can even accelerate up them now :-)
Absolutly the best bang for my buck I've ever spent.
Will attempt photos later.

[Northside 4x4]

I think you took my post the wrong way.

Im not saying figures were fudged at all. Letting a car cool between runs isnt fudging the figures, if its done by an equal amount each time.

But saying if something doesnt work, It would be pasted all over the forums is a big mistake...
I could list a dozen company's and twice as many products that dont work, that arent pasted all over the net.
All it really takes is a few people to give glowing reviews or some brilliant advertising to thwart all the other bad review people.

Im NOT saying this is what you have done by any means at all. Just saying your explanation of it was at fault.

Thanks for the graphs and info (yes I have read through the infinite amount of pages regarding this) and I would still love to see it back to back with a genuine water to air core if circumstances ever arise.

[matt.mcinnes]

I think you took my post the wrong way.

Im not saying figures were fudged at all. Letting a car cool between runs isnt fudging the figures, if its done by an equal amount each time.

But saying if something doesnt work, It would be pasted all over the forums is a big mistake...
I could list a dozen company's and twice as many products that dont work, that arent pasted all over the net.
All it really takes is a few people to give glowing reviews or some brilliant advertising to thwart all the other bad review people.

Im NOT saying this is what you have done by any means at all. Just saying your explanation of it was at fault.

Have to disagree the net is a small place and bad news travel fast.

As for needing time to cool between runs we don't can't speak for other brands.

[awill4x4]

I would still love to see it back to back with a genuine water to air core if circumstances ever arise.

So what do you call a "genuine" water to air core?
Laminova is designed specifically for water to air, unlike frozen boost and the like which are derivatives of air to air cores regardless of the flow orientation.
Even the Adrad designed cores used by ARE for water to air applications are originally designed as are air to air oil cooler cores.
Seeing as how you sell water to air intercoolers, how about posting pics of your core construction.
Regards Andrew.

[matt.mcinnes]

Shame it costs so much to build them, the best test would be same car 3-4 different cooler setups. Maybe we can get one of the magazine's to pay for the test

Yes they are not cheap but you get what you pay for. Your kit though is even more expensive.

Our intercooler upgrade for the series 4 Gu 4.2 includes the egr delete kit.
The radiator assemble is also slightly different to the unit on our website as it includes a replacement thermo fan for the aircon condenser.
Generally performance gains of 40% plus with intercooler, 3″exhaust and specialty tuning is easy to acheive.
Complete intercooler systems are $3150.00 supplied

As for testing we have our data it's not fudged so feel free to post yours up too from your intercooler set up, the important figures are pre and post TEMP and MAP, the actual power graphs are just a result of these so less important, so the type of dyno and it's discrepancies are not relevant either.

As for a comprehensive comparison by a magazine, happy to put my money where my mouth is supply an integrated TD42 unit for one of the major mags to test.

But you best be quick as me and Awill4x4 are only making 8 more units (two of which are all ready on order), using up the stock of cores I have and machined parts that are left, it was more an experiment in what we can do, I will be concentrating more on the custom side such as the the BMW X5 and the 3D CAD.

X5


http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j212/ ... =slideshow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3D CAD


Just referring back to the original post here is a pick of one of our integrated TD42 intercoolers installed and no body lift required. Just the cross over pipe to remove to get the rocker cover off for ease of maintenance too.



Heat exchanger, tripple passed and twin 11" Spal Thermos

[Josh n Kat]

what's with the tube sitting above the manifold and individual hoses coming down from it?

looks good thou, bloody big turbo on that sucker too! me likey

[1MadEngineer]

[
As for a comprehensive comparison by a magazine, happy to put my money where my mouth is supply an integrated TD42 unit for one of the major mags to test.

no need for all that stuff, easiest way is to post the heat rejection figures for the core. Every other manufacturer in the world will supply you with these details, but no-one at laminova will give out these figures? You guys are very much in the know and have done some nice work with their gear, surely you have a spec sheet. PPPPLLLLLLEEEAAASSSEE give us the info.

That way it the only real differences are in the design and application.

On another note, how do you get away with such a small face area on each core?

[matt.mcinnes]

As for a comprehensive comparison by a magazine, happy to put my money where my mouth is supply an integrated TD42 unit for one of the major mags to test.

no need for all that stuff, easiest way is to post the heat rejection figures for the core. Every other manufacturer in the world will supply you with these details, but no-one at laminova will give out these figures? You guys are very much in the know and have done some nice work with their gear, surely you have a spec sheet. PPPPLLLLLLEEEAAASSSEE give us the info.

That way it the only real differences are in the design and application.

On another note, how do you get away with such a small face area on each core?

Can't give all my secrets away, that info was hard to come by.

PM sent

[moddedgu]

what's with the tube sitting above the manifold and individual hoses coming down from it?

looks good thou, bloody big turbo on that sucker too! me likey

It's a Coolant bypass setup. Correct me id I'm wrong ,but its job is to provide more efficient cooling in head where cooling is required. (Not to good at explaining in simple words)

David

[Northside 4x4]

Well I describe a 'genuine' water to air core as.... A core that is designed for water and air. Not air and air.

You answered your own question though, I know FB etc.. all use A/A cores, thats why I said what I did.
It wasnt ment to read Lami cores are not W/A, but rather FB and all the other cheapies are not.

I though the Laminova cores were specifically made for liquid/liquid cooling though? Like Oil coolers etc..
Thats all I ever remember seeing them used for when I heard about them so many years ago (Besides the occasional intercooler fabrication)

Pictures as requested.



Dont know about posting up all the data though

If I can find any of it I will (seeing as its a good 8Years+ old now). But if not, the next car I do... I will specifically test again so I can give some dyno results instead of just reciting figures I have written down from years ago.

P.S 3D Cad looks Niiiiiice Done in solidworks?

[matt.mcinnes]

P.S 3D Cad looks Niiiiiice Done in solidworks?

I use Turbo CAD for Mac to draw and Gibbs Cam for the machining.I have solid works but prefer the simplicity of Turbo CAD. Gibbs Cam can take the 3D solid model to a finished part how ever complicated.

http://www.gibbscam.com/news_events/ind ... ry&con=130" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for the intercooling, FB and just cheap and we both know that, Awill has been fabricating intercoolers long before I came along with my odd looking box of tricks, both air to air and air to water. In fact he will freely admit to telling me, it will never fly.
As you can see from his posts he has seen the light and is now a convert.

The great benefits of Laminova are there flow length and cooling, which means the volume of air to compress to reach desired boost is less that anything else on the market (lag), the other is the cooling ability in that small package. This combination is in my opinion very hard to beat. There down side is a single core new is $200. Were just lucky you can get them out of the US for now on eBay for $50.

Regards Matt

[Northside 4x4]

Ill have to give Turbo Cad a go.

Had a couple of hours to play around with solidworks earlier today and ended up giving up.
Will definitely take some getting used to.

[awill4x4]

Pictures as requested.

You're a "braver man than I" using a bar and plate core for a water to air application.
The only cores I've seen leak apart from the crap factory ZD30 cores and stacked tube intercooler cores are bar and plate cores.
Aftermarket (Adrad and PWR) tube and fin cores are very strong being an extruded 1 piece tube and furnace brazed through a 3mm header plate, I've never seen one with a problem.
The bottom pic below is the core ARE use in their water to air applications and is Adrad's oil cooler core, it can be built in series to get desired depth. It's extremely strong and I've seen pressure testing data where it was tested to destruction at 500+ psi pressure and it was the endtanks that failed and not the core.
It is quite thick in it's tubing though and I think that heat transfer "may" not be optimum.
Regards Andrew.