SHOW US A PIC OF YOUR I\COOLER SETUP

[Northside 4x4]

You are right in what you say at the end of your post, Tube and fin just doesnt have the heat rejection required for a good water to air setup.
Fine on air to air road car applications like subaru/skyline/supra etc... though.

We do sell alot of kits, so have been approached by a few manufactures to test out the cores and see if we like them enough to use. The only ones that resemble the performance of our current selection is a genuine Garrett water to air core.

Apart from that I have never seen one leak and each one that leaves our shop is pressure tested to 50psi before it is installed.
Not to sure what their maximum recommended operating pressure is, but its well over 100psi as that is what some of the yank guys are pushing out boost wise in their sled pull trucks using these cores.

[mickyd555]

how do you test the pressure capacity of the coolers. Not after any secrets, just weather its just the cooler or the whole installation?

If its the whole installation can you breifly describe what the process is?

Also do you have a figure for the air flow capacity (CFM) and is there a way of testing this on any intercooler??

[Northside 4x4]

how do you test the pressure capacity of the coolers. Not after any secrets, just weather its just the cooler or the whole installation?

If its the whole installation can you breifly describe what the process is?

Also do you have a figure for the air flow capacity (CFM) and is there a way of testing this on any intercooler??

The intercoolers can only be tested once end tanks are welded on. But its quite simple, a large tapered bung go into one water fitting.
Other end gets a modified bung with an air port in it that is connected to a pressure regulator, gauge & compressor.
Quick check in a bucket of water for air bubbles, then another few hours sitting to check there is no slow leaks.
If there is the same pressure from beginning to end, pass. If the welding has caused any pinholes, they are either easily identifiable and fixed or its thrown in the scrap heap.

I do have figures for CFM and heat rejection of the cores we use, but I wont post them up sorry.
The only other way to measure it is on a flowbench, but yes it can be done on any intercooler.

[mickyd555]

how do you test the pressure capacity of the coolers. Not after any secrets, just weather its just the cooler or the whole installation?

If its the whole installation can you breifly describe what the process is?

Also do you have a figure for the air flow capacity (CFM) and is there a way of testing this on any intercooler??

The intercoolers can only be tested once end tanks are welded on. But its quite simple, a large tapered bung go into one water fitting.
Other end gets a modified bung with an air port in it that is connected to a pressure regulator, gauge & compressor.
Quick check in a bucket of water for air bubbles, then another few hours sitting to check there is no slow leaks.
If there is the same pressure from beginning to end, pass. If the welding has caused any pinholes, they are either easily identifiable and fixed or its thrown in the scrap heap.

I do have figures for CFM and heat rejection of the cores we use, but I wont post them up sorry.
The only other way to measure it is on a flowbench, but yes it can be done on any intercooler.

Sorry, just to clarify. Your figure of 50PSI tested is just the cooler bench tested and not the actual complete install including all silicon hoses etc..

Im not trying to doubt any of your figuresbut just interested in the testing of intercooler setups. I am asking because i am having trouble getting my FMIC to keep its hoses on and short of strapping it up and down the street trying to hold boost i would like to know if there is another way of testing it before i drive anywhere.

I'm also considering changing over to W/A so i dont have so many hose clamps (weak spots) in the piping. Keep in mind im only running 16-18 pound

[Northside 4x4]

how do you test the pressure capacity of the coolers. Not after any secrets, just weather its just the cooler or the whole installation?

If its the whole installation can you breifly describe what the process is?

Also do you have a figure for the air flow capacity (CFM) and is there a way of testing this on any intercooler??

The intercoolers can only be tested once end tanks are welded on. But its quite simple, a large tapered bung go into one water fitting.
Other end gets a modified bung with an air port in it that is connected to a pressure regulator, gauge & compressor.
Quick check in a bucket of water for air bubbles, then another few hours sitting to check there is no slow leaks.
If there is the same pressure from beginning to end, pass. If the welding has caused any pinholes, they are either easily identifiable and fixed or its thrown in the scrap heap.

I do have figures for CFM and heat rejection of the cores we use, but I wont post them up sorry.
The only other way to measure it is on a flowbench, but yes it can be done on any intercooler.

Sorry, just to clarify. Your figure of 50PSI tested is just the cooler bench tested and not the actual complete install including all silicon hoses etc..

Im not trying to doubt any of your figuresbut just interested in the testing of intercooler setups. I am asking because i am having trouble getting my FMIC to keep its hoses on and short of strapping it up and down the street trying to hold boost i would like to know if there is another way of testing it before i drive anywhere.

I'm also considering changing over to W/A so i dont have so many hose clamps (weak spots) in the piping. Keep in mind im only running 16-18 pound

Only refering to water to air coolers to make sure there is no water getting into the air side of things.
There is no real way to test it in the way you are talking about, short of as you say going for a strap down the road.

Couple of things though. Make sure the pipe have a rolled lip for the clamp to hold onto.
Clean the pipe and hose with wax & grease remover before installation.
Use T-Bolt clamps
Or, as I have done in a few circuit cars in the past, to ensure 100% reliability. Weld a small post to the pipes on either side of the silicon joiner and use that to clamp it together, while the other clamps do the sealing.

[love ke70]

how do you test the pressure capacity of the coolers. Not after any secrets, just weather its just the cooler or the whole installation?

If its the whole installation can you breifly describe what the process is?

Also do you have a figure for the air flow capacity (CFM) and is there a way of testing this on any intercooler??

The intercoolers can only be tested once end tanks are welded on. But its quite simple, a large tapered bung go into one water fitting.
Other end gets a modified bung with an air port in it that is connected to a pressure regulator, gauge & compressor.
Quick check in a bucket of water for air bubbles, then another few hours sitting to check there is no slow leaks.
If there is the same pressure from beginning to end, pass. If the welding has caused any pinholes, they are either easily identifiable and fixed or its thrown in the scrap heap.

I do have figures for CFM and heat rejection of the cores we use, but I wont post them up sorry.
The only other way to measure it is on a flowbench, but yes it can be done on any intercooler.

Sorry, just to clarify. Your figure of 50PSI tested is just the cooler bench tested and not the actual complete install including all silicon hoses etc..

Im not trying to doubt any of your figuresbut just interested in the testing of intercooler setups. I am asking because i am having trouble getting my FMIC to keep its hoses on and short of strapping it up and down the street trying to hold boost i would like to know if there is another way of testing it before i drive anywhere.

I'm also considering changing over to W/A so i dont have so many hose clamps (weak spots) in the piping. Keep in mind im only running 16-18 pound

Only refering to water to air coolers to make sure there is no water getting into the air side of things.
There is no real way to test it in the way you are talking about, short of as you say going for a strap down the road.

Couple of things though. Make sure the pipe have a rolled lip for the clamp to hold onto.
Clean the pipe and hose with wax & grease remover before installation.
Use T-Bolt clamps
Or, as I have done in a few circuit cars in the past, to ensure 100% reliability. Weld a small post to the pipes on either side of the silicon joiner and use that to clamp it together, while the other clamps do the sealing.

or if a rolled lip is too much of a pita, little nipples of weld, about 5mm round, 3mm high, spaced maybe 30-40mm apart all the way around the end of the pipe, about 5 mm from the lip. so you slide the silicon joiner over, and clamp it behind the nipples, so to come off, it has to drag the clamp over them, but you still have a flat sealing surface.

worked on my old car, which i forever had issues with pipes coming off til this was done.

as was said, a good clean and those expensive clamps from pirtek will also help alottt

[mickyd555]

thanks for the advice. Northside do you sell that W/A cooler on its own or only as part of a kit?

Can you PM a price if possible, otherwise let me know who i should speak to when i call the shop.

[Northside 4x4]

thanks for the advice. Northside do you sell that W/A cooler on its own or only as part of a kit?

Can you PM a price if possible, otherwise let me know who i should speak to when i call the shop.

PM sent mate.

[mickyd555]

what sort of flow rate for the water pump is suitible for W/A cooling?

[Northside 4x4]

what sort of flow rate for the water pump is suitible for W/A cooling?

Highly depends on the application.

Bosch make a number of very reliable pumps with small to large flow capacity.

On extreme setups, use of two pumps becomes an easier option than trying to package one huge pump.

[mickyd555]

so is there a calculation i can make or is it trial and error? maybe a variable system is more suitible?

[Northside 4x4]

so is there a calculation i can make or is it trial and error? maybe a variable system is more suitible?

Well yeah it can be calculated, but its a bit of a pain trying to get the calcs right due to the amount of data needed.
I have learnt more from trial and error than I ever would have using theory and calculations to test the results.

The smaller bosch pump will be suitable for most street applications. The large bosch pump will be enough for almost all serious applications.
Also comes down to how much restriction there is in the radiator and intercooler core.

I basically started out using the biggest pump available to me, and worked my way down until I found the limits of each one.

[mickyd555]

The smaller bosch pump will be suitable for most street applications. The large bosch pump will be enough for almost all serious applications.

which Bosch pumps are you refering to? do you have part no.'s

[1MadEngineer]

so is there a calculation i can make or is it trial and error? maybe a variable system is more suitible?

A variable system is the ultimate! We did an engineering research project, which proved to give massive benefits, BUT it is way too difficult for average joe. We used a meziere WP136 ( PWR part # PWA5874), then made a proportional amplifier to drive it. Hooked up to an array of pressure and temp sensors and an IFM calorific flow meter, i designed a contol ECU which has a specific algorithm which monitors load / temp / pressure and heat soak at various points in the system. Honestly it is amazing the difference! its like a carby car Vs an injected car......

[mickyd555]

so is there a calculation i can make or is it trial and error? maybe a variable system is more suitible?

A variable system is the ultimate! We did an engineering research project, which proved to give massive benefits, BUT it is way too difficult for average joe. We used a meziere WP136 ( PWR part # PWA5874), then made a proportional amplifier to drive it. Hooked up to an array of pressure and temp sensors and an IFM calorific flow meter, i designed a contol ECU which has a specific algorithm which monitors load / temp / pressure and heat soak at various points in the system. Honestly it is amazing the difference! its like a carby car Vs an injected car......

I was thinking about restricting the flow with a ball valve or something simple like that but i suppose an array of pressure sensors would work too

[1MadEngineer]

so is there a calculation i can make or is it trial and error? maybe a variable system is more suitible?

A variable system is the ultimate! We did an engineering research project, which proved to give massive benefits, BUT it is way too difficult for average joe. We used a meziere WP136 ( PWR part # PWA5874), then made a proportional amplifier to drive it. Hooked up to an array of pressure and temp sensors and an IFM calorific flow meter, i designed a contol ECU which has a specific algorithm which monitors load / temp / pressure and heat soak at various points in the system. Honestly it is amazing the difference! its like a carby car Vs an injected car......

I was thinking about restricting the flow with a ball valve or something simple like that but i suppose an array of pressure sensors would work too

no proportional ramp amplifier is much easier!

[mickyd555]

Greg, would a temp sensor on the radiator pipe work to switch on/off the water pump be a similar situatiuon to your trial set up.

[Northside 4x4]

The best time to lower flow rate or stop it completely is when you are at very low boost obviously.
It is done this way because the charge air temp is not very high, and you obviously dont need alot of power at that time.
Second, the radiator has more time to get the heat out of the water and have a large volume of cool water that is now ready to be pushed through the intercooler when you are under high boost, keeping temps lower for longer.

Of all the cars I have made variable systems on, such as 1madengineer (but using a unichip to control the system) I have found very few applications that require it and even fewer will be able to tell the difference between this and an always on setup.

And yes, using a temp switch on the intercooler water outlet can do it.
But your better off using a hobbs switch with a timer of about 3mins.

[showtime393]

I have been reading about these for quite some time now and I'm becomming very interested. Can someone tell me if there is a kit available for a TB42 yet?
I would imagine these would work as well on a diesel as they would on a petrol or strait gas? I currently have a top mount but heat soak from engine is proving to be quite impossible to eliminate. I don't really want to be shopping around for different radiators and custom pipe work tho. I'm interested if there is a kit that comes with cooler, radiator, thermos, pumps, hoses and wiring. I can deal with fitting pipes, waterlines, mounting and plumbing. But to chase parts and put together an entire set-up with fittings and all. Sounds like to much work.

So is there a kit like this?

[love ke70]

i was in the same boat, so when i spoke with matt he hooked me up with a heat exchanger with 2 spal thermos mounted to it

and i went to repco, got a roll of heater hose, and a davies, craig EWP80 water pump.

then you just have to get some wiring, a couple of relays, and a couple of switches, and fit it all and wire it up.

thats probably the best you will get, the wiring isnt too much of a big deal, plenty of info on wiring basics like a relay with a switch etc

just make sure you get one of those good fuse holders, that take a blade type fuse, you will melt an inline one. i did inside 30 seconds. fuse was good, holder melted...

[showtime393]

Ok thanks but what about the intercooler itself? I have seen these built into inlet manifolds on a TD42, Is something like this available for a TB42 or is it just buy the universal cooler and fit it up?

[love ke70]

are the manifolds different?
i think exhaust is the same, is intake not?