the suspension system built by Erez (overland Israel)... I'll let him explain what's in the pics..
asaf.
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a well built defender 90 - pics
Moderator: Micka
a well built defender 90 - pics
the suspension system built by Erez (overland Israel)... I'll let him explain what's in the pics..
asaf.
"scars are tattoos with better stories"
There's a couple of cunning design features that have me a bit confused. That stick collector in front of the radiator - does it double as an intercooler? 
...and original side steps - wow! They tend to remove themselves normally, often taking the sills and doors with them...
Rest looks good though...
...and original side steps - wow! They tend to remove themselves normally, often taking the sills and doors with them...
Rest looks good though...
ct
Thanks for the post Asaf.
How do you find the disconnected rear end ?
Most of the experienced blokes over here that have tried that have gone back to retained springs, I'm assuming for more stability.
Maybe some one like Sam could chime in on their experience of the pros/cons of the rear end.
What model Fox dampers are they ?
I'm assuming twelve inch travel ?
Is that a bump adjuster on the can ? (blue knob)
Have you had any problem with the unprotected shafts ?
Any 90/110/130 over here doing a lot of dirt/off road ends up with the (conventionally mounted) rear shocks looking pretty second hand pretty quickly, (my old stock ones almost had square bodies) to the point that a number of people are fabbing up stone shields to protect the damper body. Do you think some sort of boot, at the least, would reduce the possibilty of shaft damage ?
Look at MX/Enduro bikes these days with up side down forks. They genearlly run a shield in front of the stanchion thanks to its exposure.
Is it a 300Tdi ? 'cause that is the biggest damn intercooler I've ever seen on a Rover !
Lowbox has a point, we'd be worried about a stick/rock/Roo/pedestrian/Harold Scruby going through it without some sort of grille. Might not be a problem where you are.
Please don't take this as critisism, just questions. You've done some things I've been mulling over, (like the shocks) so I'm after your feedback.
Rick
How do you find the disconnected rear end ?
Most of the experienced blokes over here that have tried that have gone back to retained springs, I'm assuming for more stability.
Maybe some one like Sam could chime in on their experience of the pros/cons of the rear end.
What model Fox dampers are they ?
I'm assuming twelve inch travel ?
Is that a bump adjuster on the can ? (blue knob)
Have you had any problem with the unprotected shafts ?
Any 90/110/130 over here doing a lot of dirt/off road ends up with the (conventionally mounted) rear shocks looking pretty second hand pretty quickly, (my old stock ones almost had square bodies) to the point that a number of people are fabbing up stone shields to protect the damper body. Do you think some sort of boot, at the least, would reduce the possibilty of shaft damage ?
Look at MX/Enduro bikes these days with up side down forks. They genearlly run a shield in front of the stanchion thanks to its exposure.
Is it a 300Tdi ? 'cause that is the biggest damn intercooler I've ever seen on a Rover !
Lowbox has a point, we'd be worried about a stick/rock/Roo/pedestrian/Harold Scruby going through it without some sort of grille. Might not be a problem where you are.
Please don't take this as critisism, just questions. You've done some things I've been mulling over, (like the shocks) so I'm after your feedback.
Rick
First- it's not my LR- mine's a d110 HD SW, under construction right now (I promise to post some pics as soon as it will be rolling).
this 90 belongs to our local LR parts ditstributer- He is selling these way-to-big Allard intercoolers, so he wants everyone to see the intercooler (by the way- this is the strongest tdi300 I've ever met- with about 53 Kgm and about 165HP).
Many of us are using the "drop kit" (dislocation cones) built by Erez (overland israel) on daily driven LRs (90s, 110s, RRCs and discos). some with vehicles lifted up to 4". no problem. the kit won't damage the handling- It's not working on road, due to the vehicle weight. offroad, the kit help articulation, and by keeping all the wheels on the ground- gives some stability on uneven terrain (altough not to much traction added this way... and.. oh yeah... it looks GREAT!!
).
about the springs/ shocks/ shock mounts or whatever- I'm waiting for Erez to post some more explanations about the suspension specs (he built it- he'll have to explain).
Asaf.
(I promise to post some pics as soon as it will be rolling).
this 90 belongs to our local LR parts ditstributer- He is selling these way-to-big Allard intercoolers, so he wants everyone to see the intercooler (by the way- this is the strongest tdi300 I've ever met- with about 53 Kgm and about 165HP).
Many of us are using the "drop kit" (dislocation cones) built by Erez (overland israel) on daily driven LRs (90s, 110s, RRCs and discos). some with vehicles lifted up to 4". no problem. the kit won't damage the handling- It's not working on road, due to the vehicle weight. offroad, the kit help articulation, and by keeping all the wheels on the ground- gives some stability on uneven terrain (altough not to much traction added this way... and.. oh yeah... it looks GREAT!!
).
about the springs/ shocks/ shock mounts or whatever- I'm waiting for Erez to post some more explanations about the suspension specs (he built it- he'll have to explain).
Asaf.
"scars are tattoos with better stories"
Asaf,
it's the off road stability, say, on a side slope, that I would be concerned about.
I've experimented a little with long travel rear shocks and dislocated springs, but for the time being I'm back to a stock/retained set up.
With those Fox dampers, as well as unsprung weight pushing the wheels down, you have the gas pressure in the dampers. This 'lifting force' (it's not really quite like a spring) is a function of the cross sectional area of the shaft multiplied by the gas pressure. So if you had 200 psi in the shock, and a shaft of 5/8", this would be a force pushing down of 61lbs, which helps hold the wheel on the ground.
With regard to that intercooler, I wonder what the pressure drop and lag is like compared to a 'correctly sized' one.
Here is a good commercial site that discusses the importance of a correctly designed end tank in their tech section.
http://www.are.com.au/index.htm
Rick.
it's the off road stability, say, on a side slope, that I would be concerned about.
I've experimented a little with long travel rear shocks and dislocated springs, but for the time being I'm back to a stock/retained set up.
With those Fox dampers, as well as unsprung weight pushing the wheels down, you have the gas pressure in the dampers. This 'lifting force' (it's not really quite like a spring) is a function of the cross sectional area of the shaft multiplied by the gas pressure. So if you had 200 psi in the shock, and a shaft of 5/8", this would be a force pushing down of 61lbs, which helps hold the wheel on the ground.
With regard to that intercooler, I wonder what the pressure drop and lag is like compared to a 'correctly sized' one.
Here is a good commercial site that discusses the importance of a correctly designed end tank in their tech section.
http://www.are.com.au/index.htm
Rick.
Hey guys,
I built this Defender. I'll try to answer your questions.
The front suspension travel - the truck owner thinks he's an F16 pilot (you DO have F16s in Australia, right?
). He drives on the open road (offroad) at a speed you would not believe. Therefore, I planned the front suspension with a longer upper travel (to absorb shocks) than down travel.
All my explanations to him that this is a D90 and not an Impreza Turbo did not help. He's aware that he's in a high platform with mud tires - the last platform I would think of for speed, but he doesn't care.
The rear suspension is a 14" fox shock. On the reservoir we have 8 adjustable damping rates.
From my experience, up to 14" shock with a dislocated spring works fine, gives the truck extra grip, and more stability on the obstacle. (All tires are almost always on the ground, even if they don't have enough grip they still stabilize the truck - a thing that doesn't exist with a regular suspension).
We call the disconnected springs system in Israel Drop Kit. I've installed many such systems. In my experience, they isn't active on-road, open-road (high speeds) and work only when the truck is in axle-twisting.
Till now, after installing several dozen dampers, I haven't encountered any damage to the shock or the reservoir or the shafts. We drive a lot in the desert (dust, stones) an 2 very intensive months each year in mud.
But you do have something there, and I'd be happy to hear ideas how to relocate the reservoir.
Regarding the intercooler - it's a phase III Allard (if I remember correctly). The truck owner is a LR parts distributor. He sells these Allard intercoolers, which is probably why he cares more about showing off the intercooler than protecting it from possible external damage.
In addition to the intercooler he has a larger Garrett Turbo, headers, and an extra-size exhaust pipe. On top of this add 4.1 in the axles and GKN overdrive and you get the fastest and quickest accelerating Defender you ever saw!
Here are a few more pics of trucks with drop-kits :
I built this Defender. I'll try to answer your questions.
The front suspension travel - the truck owner thinks he's an F16 pilot (you DO have F16s in Australia, right?
). He drives on the open road (offroad) at a speed you would not believe. Therefore, I planned the front suspension with a longer upper travel (to absorb shocks) than down travel.
All my explanations to him that this is a D90 and not an Impreza Turbo did not help. He's aware that he's in a high platform with mud tires - the last platform I would think of for speed, but he doesn't care.
The rear suspension is a 14" fox shock. On the reservoir we have 8 adjustable damping rates.
From my experience, up to 14" shock with a dislocated spring works fine, gives the truck extra grip, and more stability on the obstacle. (All tires are almost always on the ground, even if they don't have enough grip they still stabilize the truck - a thing that doesn't exist with a regular suspension).
We call the disconnected springs system in Israel Drop Kit. I've installed many such systems. In my experience, they isn't active on-road, open-road (high speeds) and work only when the truck is in axle-twisting.
Till now, after installing several dozen dampers, I haven't encountered any damage to the shock or the reservoir or the shafts. We drive a lot in the desert (dust, stones) an 2 very intensive months each year in mud.
But you do have something there, and I'd be happy to hear ideas how to relocate the reservoir.
Regarding the intercooler - it's a phase III Allard (if I remember correctly). The truck owner is a LR parts distributor. He sells these Allard intercoolers, which is probably why he cares more about showing off the intercooler than protecting it from possible external damage.
In addition to the intercooler he has a larger Garrett Turbo, headers, and an extra-size exhaust pipe. On top of this add 4.1 in the axles and GKN overdrive and you get the fastest and quickest accelerating Defender you ever saw!
Here are a few more pics of trucks with drop-kits :
No..... it's not a jeep
Erez,
Nice stuff. The "drop kits" you refer to are similar to the ones a lot of people have been using. I use RoverTym's cones for the rear with my 12" OME shocks.
That Disco sure looks pretty! Must handle FAR better at speed than a D90...
I keep seeing you on all the boards! We should wheel together in Jordan...
Nadim
Nice stuff. The "drop kits" you refer to are similar to the ones a lot of people have been using. I use RoverTym's cones for the rear with my 12" OME shocks.
That Disco sure looks pretty! Must handle FAR better at speed than a D90...
I keep seeing you on all the boards! We should wheel together in Jordan...
Nadim
LR Disco truggy:
42" Iroks, ZF, dual cases & ARBs, 30 splined, Longfielded, OMEs, Optimas, M8274-50s, Rockstomper rope & Bead-L
LR D-90 TD5 ST:
33" BFT AT, tuned, caged, 1/2 top
42" Iroks, ZF, dual cases & ARBs, 30 splined, Longfielded, OMEs, Optimas, M8274-50s, Rockstomper rope & Bead-L
LR D-90 TD5 ST:
33" BFT AT, tuned, caged, 1/2 top
Dave,
They are the N29s (Nissan GU rears)
I may be wrong about the 12" travel now, you got me thinking...
I do remember them being 65cm extended and around 34cm compressed though...
They are the N29s (Nissan GU rears)
I may be wrong about the 12" travel now, you got me thinking...
I do remember them being 65cm extended and around 34cm compressed though...
LR Disco truggy:
42" Iroks, ZF, dual cases & ARBs, 30 splined, Longfielded, OMEs, Optimas, M8274-50s, Rockstomper rope & Bead-L
LR D-90 TD5 ST:
33" BFT AT, tuned, caged, 1/2 top
42" Iroks, ZF, dual cases & ARBs, 30 splined, Longfielded, OMEs, Optimas, M8274-50s, Rockstomper rope & Bead-L
LR D-90 TD5 ST:
33" BFT AT, tuned, caged, 1/2 top
I do remember them being 65cm extended and around 34cm compressed though.
The GU leaf rear shocks I measured were 650mm open, 388mm closed (not OME's), which gave 10" travel on the rear of my 'fender, till I swaped them out.
The valving was all wrong for the coil rear.
Rick.
Last edited by rick130 on Wed Apr 14, 2004 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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