Solid axle widening

[georgey]

Hey
Just wondering if you can use parts from an IFS front end and put them on a hilux diff to gain the width without using a Solid axle widening kit with IFS hubs?

thanks

[vk7ybi]

What parts?

[vk7ybi]

This, http://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner ... axles.html, IMHO is the best way to widen an axle. Its what I'm doing to a 40 axle to make it the same width as a 60 axle to go SOA in my 40.

[Frankenyota]

Have a read of this thread on pirate
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.p ... ost2423615" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm looking at doing this mod to the front of my hilux to match the rear IFS diff.
Looking for a 40 series disc rotor that will bolt on to the ifs hubs, not sure if they are still available?

Matt

[vk7ybi]

I dont like the look of the way they mount the caliper.. Not only is that bad, it messes with the scrub radius and puts the centre of the wheel off-centre on the wheel bearings..

[hulsty]

Hey
Just wondering if you can use parts from an IFS front end and put them on a hilux diff to gain the width without using a Solid axle widening kit with IFS hubs?

thanks

What your saying does not make sense, you want to use IFS parts to avoid using IFS parts to widen the front end.

I use a marks adapters kit, this one below on my car with IFS wheel hubs. Quick easy to fit, uses standard discs, standard caliper mounts and the wheel bearing loads are the same as a IFS hilux so I have no worries there. Only issue, for some people might be the scrub radius is increased by 33mm each side. No problem for me, handling effects are minimal and the swivel hub bearings have over 100,000km on them with no ill effects.

http://www.marks4wd.com/products/Axle%2 ... dening.htm

[Dannyboy]

I dont like the look of the way they mount the caliper.. Not only is that bad, it messes with the scrub radius and puts the centre of the wheel off-centre on the wheel bearings..

Since i did mine, what you said with the increase in scrub radius was correct and it tramlines or follows the small ruts in the road, well did, After doing a search with someone we both know who is into modifying race cars we found that if you increase the toe in by 1-2mm it goes away, I know this wears the tyres more but for a bush rig not a great drama.

[Frankenyota]

Are you saying the IFS hub affects the scrub radius, because the wheel hub mounting is 1.5" further out?
If so i'm happy to try it for the benefits of a wider track and more stability.
The mounting of the caliper shouldn't change the steering geometry.

What set up do you have dannyboy?

Matt

[hulsty]

Yes, also the mounting of the caliper does not change from factory.

[vk7ybi]

I just re-read what I typed, its nonsense.

What It should read is "I dont like the look of the way they mount the caliper.. Not only is the caliper mounting method bad, the axle widening method messes with the scrub radius and puts the centre of the wheel off-centre on the wheel bearings.."

Putting the wheel off centre on the bearings increases the load, and therefore wear and therefore chance of failure.

The scrub radius changes when the wheel mounting surface is moved and the rim isnt changed to suit. Youll notice that IFS rims are offset differently to solid axle ones. I think Toyota did this to fit all the swing arm and balljoint junk in there. The rear axle is widened to suit the WMS to WMS distance on the IFS front.

The mounting of the caliper has nothing to do with suspension geometry.

By widening the axle housing and using a longer inner axle shaft, more of the stock geometry is retained.. Anyone contemplating widening the track is probably doing it to fit larger wheels, larger wheels need lower gears, lower gearing stresses parts, so Longs get installed. When you order the Longs, get a custom inner.. The extra cost of the custom inner is less than that of the IFS hub to rotor spacers. Thats my reasoning anyway..

[Dannyboy]

I run the IFS 4Runner hubs with marks adapters spacer. Myself and vk7ybi live close by and had this discussion when I was doing mine and no doubt the way he is doing his is the ultimate but I didn't have the skill or gear to do it myself or the money to pay someone and was nto keen on parts like the custom axles. Putting the wheels further out by 33mm per side as per the kit does affect the handling, from what I have read and had explained to me as your wheels turn the inside wheel turns more than the outside and leans back, turn you wheel and have a look for yourself. when you move the wheels out from the pivot it changes the ratio of inside wheel turning to outside turning and one of the side effects include tram-lining or following the ruts in the road left by trucks and cars etc. This was the only thing I noticed. to overcome this I run 2mm more toe in which means I can sit on 110 km/hr and drives like my 2009 hilux. As far as the calliper mount it doesn't change it stays in the factory location. Instead the Brake rotor has a spacer between it and the hub to bring the rotor back in line with the calliper, I used copious amounts of thread locker and grade 8.8cap heads to hold it together. As for the wheel bearing load that is 100% correct there is more load on the smaller outer bearing on the hub, but im prepared to wear more regular bearing changes for the track increase. Just remember though mine is a weekend toy not a daily driver. I guess the decision is your to make there are 3 options i know of, IFS 4runner hubs like I have, widening the housing and custom axle shaft, or using a 60 series housing and either out boarding the springs or notching the pumpkin.

[hulsty]

I daily drive mine on 35''s and wheel bearings dont excessively wear, I think my drivers side has over 30,000km on it and is probably getting close to needing replacement.

[Z()LTAN]

If its an issue why not extend the housing? Very easy and no scrub issues. Personally I like the increased turning angle spacers give you.

[vk7ybi]

Personally I like the increased turning angle spacers give you.

Please explain..

[Z()LTAN]

Gives you more toot.

[vk7ybi]

More what?

[foxracing_is]

Personally I like the increased turning angle spacers give you.

Please explain..

I believe he is talking about the fact that once you add 35" tires or larger, generally the main factor in limiting your steering angle is your tires hitting the control arms / chassis or other parts of your vehicle at full turn (and full suspension compression/flex). Adding wheel spacers pushes the tires further out, possibly allowing you to retain the factory steering stops or even wind them in a little (giving more steering angle).

[vk7ybi]

Yes, and widening the axle does the same thing..

[Z()LTAN]

Test it out man. Measure your turning circle with and without spacers. Let us know what u find.

[georgey]

None of these have answered my original question.

Can you use stock parts from an IFS 4runner on a solid axle hilux diff to increase track width without BUYING the solid axle widening kit from a shop.

I am asking because i am doing an SAS conversion on a 4runner and the bloke wants ifs hub spacers instead of wheel spacers because it is being engineered.

If i can use parts from the ifs i have removed it will save money instead of spending $400 odd dollars on the kit.
Thanks

[Frankenyota]

Did you read the link i posted?
You can use the IFS hubs with out spacers but you have to mount the brake caliper on the other
side of the mounting ears on the hub.
Or buy the spacers to put the rotor back to the original position. Not sure if either way is engineer approved thou?

Matt

[Mr DJ]

Frankenyota is right from my experience.
I went the rotor spacer route. Spacer is about 30mm from memory.
Rotor spacers = legal/engineerable
Wheel spacers = illegal

[Dannyboy]

Frankenyota is right from my experience.
I went the rotor spacer route. Spacer is about 30mm from memory.
Rotor spacers = legal/engineerable
Wheel spacers = illegal

33mm to be exact

[georgey]

my apologies frankenyota.
thanks for the info