Is 170+Kw for a TD42 possible with standard turbo and IP

[farmerbrown34]

Hi all,

Im looking for a bit more power out of my TD42 and Id like to know whats possible with a standard turbo and fuel pump. Ive increased the fuel and boost (18 PSI). And have plans for a liquid intercooler and water/meth injection. Right now EGTs reach around 530 at 140km/h on flat ground with no weight.

Id like most of my power around 2200rpm+ for highway drivng. Im not looking for a racecar, just something that can have a bit of go for overtaking on the highway.

Am I dreaming if I want to get 170kw at the crank by just increasing fuel, boost, intercooler and w/m injection? Or am i looking at new turbo and injector pump mods?

Its a 2000 Nissan Patrol ute 4.2L

Cheers,
Matthew

[UGOTNUFN]

Hi all,

Im looking for a bit more power out of my TD42 and Id like to know whats possible with a standard turbo and fuel pump. Ive increased the fuel and boost (18 PSI). And have plans for a liquid intercooler and water/meth injection. Right now EGTs reach around 530 at 140km/h on flat ground with no weight.

Id like most of my power around 2200rpm+ for highway drivng. Im not looking for a racecar, just something that can have a bit of go for overtaking on the highway.

Am I dreaming if I want to get 170kw at the crank by just increasing fuel, boost, intercooler and w/m injection? Or am i looking at new turbo and injector pump mods?

Its a 2000 Nissan Patrol ute 4.2L

Cheers,
Matthew

NO, have a search around the forums mate all your questions will be answered.

[GUtripper]

Had a few discussions with 3 well known tuners in Melb before winding mine up a bit...... I was told by all 3 that around 130-140kw is possible with standard pump and turbo, (but each engine will be different) but thats about it......and you would need to de-restrict std GU airbox, intake etc, or EGT's would exceed safe limits, typically 550 deg under prolonged boost/load.

The amount of air you can get in and the amount of fuel the std 11mm plunger will deliver are the limiting factors.

Mine is a GU4 with dual battery and ABS, and the standard airbox, which is a poor design. On the dyno, it picked up 7kw just by removing the air intake from the engine side of the filter. There are a few companys around manufacturing GU airboxes which breathe way better than the standard junk. I have seen Cruiser airboxes used in GU's as well, but a bit of work to make them fit.

[gu town]

it picked up 7kw just by removing the air intake from the engine side of the filter. .

What do you mean by this?

[GUtripper]

it picked up 7kw just by removing the air intake from the engine side of the filter. .

What do you mean by this?

Meaning just that.
On the dyno, there was a power gain after removing a section of the ducting on the engine side of the airbox..... the turbo could pull more air in. The standard GU 4.2 airbox has a 3" inlet that hits the side of the filter head on. Ever noticed a dirty circle on the side of the filter?
Would be better to have at least a 4" inlet, and the ducting to be set up so the air swirls around the filter rather than meet it head on.
Because of the poor /restrictive airflow, the fuel had to be turned down to keep egt's under control.
The turbo and standard IP is capable of more, but the airbox design is the bottleneck. And I run a high flow airbox lid.

[Northside 4x4]

I would say the standard turbo is safely capable of around 100-120kw (depending on the dyno) at the wheels and thats about it. 12psi as a safe limit, 15psi as an absolute max limit on the poor little ht18... And even that would be having the fuel pump wound up past where it should be.
The standard pump is more than capable of 150-160rwkw, which is about its limit.

Instead of looking at power when your increasing the boost or de-restricting air intakes, you should be looking at air fuel ratio.
Its not uncommon for people to up the boost well past the compressor or turbine efficiency point and gain power. But when you look at AFR you can see its because it is becoming much richer due to either hotter air, or more pre turbine backpressure restricting air flow.

It sounds ass about face, but honestly when testing anything airflow related on a diesel, AFR and to a lesser extent EGT are the only true indicators of how good it is.

In a nutshell. Your modification list should be (in order of engine reliability and power production)
3" Exhaust
Hi Flow Airfilter
Better Intercooler (Forget a bigger top mount)
And Either a UF TD, or Garrett turbo. Both have pro's and cons, and it comes down to alot of variables when choosing.
Air Box modifications (dont be fooled, the standard airbox will flow enough for 200kw atw, its snorkels that are the big killer)
Most importantly, someone who knows how to tune the Injector pump properly.

[farmerbrown34]

So if i max out the injector pump while keeping EGTs under control (with intake mods, intercooler, w/m injection, boost) I could hope for up near 130kW? My pyro sensor is post turbo in the dump pipe, is the 550deg figure still relevant for there?

I’m a bit of a newbie when it comes to engines but I’ve been told that I might need my valve clearances checked to get a bit more grunt out of it?? Engine has 220,000kms??

Hope to get it on the dyno next week to see what shes at now.

Cheers,

[farmerbrown34]

Hi northside,

At the moment have a 3inch straight through and dump pipe. no intercooler as yet.

160rwkw would be a dream, would having the TD42 tuned that high be safe enough for a daily driver?

Was looking at FMIC but it seems for a similar price I can get an 'ebay' liquid intercooler. Has anyone had any experinece with these?

Cheers,

[Northside 4x4]

So if i max out the injector pump while keeping EGTs under control (with intake mods, intercooler, w/m injection, boost) I could hope for up near 130kW? My pyro sensor is post turbo in the dump pipe, is the 550deg figure still relevant for there?

I’m a bit of a newbie when it comes to engines but I’ve been told that I might need my valve clearances checked to get a bit more grunt out of it?? Engine has 220,000kms??

Hope to get it on the dyno next week to see what shes at now.

Cheers,

Your injector pump will provide fueling for 150-160kw.
If you add water methanol to that you can realistically achieve another 20kw on top of your maxed out pump.

I use post turbo egt about 1% of the time. It is irrelevant and a very vague guide to actual temps.
If you want a proper reading, tap the sensor into #1 or #6 exhaust port.

[hulsty]

Your injector pump will provide fueling for 150-160kw.
If you add water methanol to that you can realistically achieve another 20kw on top of your maxed out pump.

I use post turbo egt about 1% of the time. It is irrelevant and a very vague guide to actual temps.
If you want a proper reading, tap the sensor into #1 or #6 exhaust port.

Do you have any more info on the water methanol (methylated spirits and water ?) setup? How does it work and are their kits available? My cruiser pump is maxed out and I have plenty of boost left.

[Northside 4x4]

Snow Performance make a kit
As well as Coolingmist.

http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmain.a ... sdieselegt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would recommend coolingmist. And dont be cheap when buying the kit, get the best one you can afford.
They are all under $1000 which is half what you would otherwise spend to safely gain the 20-30kw at the wheels like you can with a water meth kit.

[GUtripper]

I would say the standard turbo is safely capable of around 100-120kw (depending on the dyno) at the wheels and thats about it. 12psi as a safe limit, 15psi as an absolute max limit on the poor little ht18... And even that would be having the fuel pump wound up past where it should be.
The standard pump is more than capable of 150-160rwkw, which is about its limit.

Instead of looking at power when your increasing the boost or de-restricting air intakes, you should be looking at air fuel ratio.
Its not uncommon for people to up the boost well past the compressor or turbine efficiency point and gain power. But when you look at AFR you can see its because it is becoming much richer due to either hotter air, or more pre turbine backpressure restricting air flow.

It sounds ass about face, but honestly when testing anything airflow related on a diesel, AFR and to a lesser extent EGT are the only true indicators of how good it is.

In a nutshell. Your modification list should be (in order of engine reliability and power production)
3" Exhaust
Hi Flow Airfilter
Better Intercooler (Forget a bigger top mount)
And Either a UF TD, or Garrett turbo. Both have pro's and cons, and it comes down to alot of variables when choosing.
Air Box modifications (dont be fooled, the standard airbox will flow enough for 200kw atw, its snorkels that are the big killer)
Most importantly, someone who knows how to tune the Injector pump properly.

Hmmm, a touch at odds with what I was told ....
But yes, mods have been done in the order you suggested, incl a big frontmount.
Still the bottleneck seems to be the ducting from the snorkel into the airbox, and the crap design of the airbox.
If stock airboxes are so good, why do most tuned up (ie 160kw+) 4.2's run aftermarket/fabricated set ups?

[Northside 4x4]

I would say the standard turbo is safely capable of around 100-120kw (depending on the dyno) at the wheels and thats about it. 12psi as a safe limit, 15psi as an absolute max limit on the poor little ht18... And even that would be having the fuel pump wound up past where it should be.
The standard pump is more than capable of 150-160rwkw, which is about its limit.

Instead of looking at power when your increasing the boost or de-restricting air intakes, you should be looking at air fuel ratio.
Its not uncommon for people to up the boost well past the compressor or turbine efficiency point and gain power. But when you look at AFR you can see its because it is becoming much richer due to either hotter air, or more pre turbine backpressure restricting air flow.

It sounds ass about face, but honestly when testing anything airflow related on a diesel, AFR and to a lesser extent EGT are the only true indicators of how good it is.

In a nutshell. Your modification list should be (in order of engine reliability and power production)
3" Exhaust
Hi Flow Airfilter
Better Intercooler (Forget a bigger top mount)
And Either a UF TD, or Garrett turbo. Both have pro's and cons, and it comes down to alot of variables when choosing.
Air Box modifications (dont be fooled, the standard airbox will flow enough for 200kw atw, its snorkels that are the big killer)
Most importantly, someone who knows how to tune the Injector pump properly.

Hmmm, a touch at odds with what I was told ....
But yes, mods have been done in the order you suggested, incl a big frontmount.
Still the bottleneck seems to be the ducting from the snorkel into the airbox, and the crap design of the airbox.
If stock airboxes are so good, why do most tuned up (ie 160kw+) 4.2's run aftermarket/fabricated set ups?

Because people like to say they are no good.
There doesnt have to be any truth in an internet statement, for it to be taken as gospel among forum readers.

Have you upgraded your intake manifold??? Until you replace that there is no point looking for any other bottlenecks as that is THE biggest restriction to making good power.

Im not saying the standard air box is great. It could use alot of improvement, but.... Its not as bad as alot of people say. I have run multiple GU's with 250-270hp atw and still running through the std airbox.
Yes they did lean out and increase in power then it was taken out of the equation, meaning it is a restriction. Just not to the extent it is made out to be.