DiffGearing Question...

[zeeto]

Alright, I'm in the process of designing custom axles using a 33-spline h233 3rd and 404 portal boxes.
The problem is over here in the US the lowest gearing we have is ~4.3 for the diff. Do the patrols come in a lower gearing? I'm looking for something like a mid to high 3.xx at the most. If they do, do most guys swap them out? I know shipping would be expensive so I'd want to find them relatively cheap, ie someones junk...
thanks

[Wendle]

3.9, (39cw & 10p) and yeah you should be able to do a trade with someone no problem.. freight shouldn't be too bad??

got any pics of these axles??

[zeeto]

cool thanks wendle...

no pics yet, i was trying to find out if the gear ratios could go any lower than what we have over here before I started the actual build. I'm basically going to take the center portion of a h233, retube it, and fit the portal boxes to the ends.
my only real hurdle will probably be getting the 3rd to run upside down and still continue to be oiled properly. probably will see how the oil flows in that position and weld some "pockets" in to direct the flow the right way.
if it works great, if not i'll use toyota 8" knuckles and birfs welded to the tube ends...i want to first try and create a portal though

[big red]

you can get a 3.5 but its a front only.
3.9
4.1
4.3
4.6
4.8 aftermarket

[zeeto]

you can get a 3.5 but its a front only.
3.9
4.1
4.3
4.6
4.8 aftermarket

what do you mean by front only? i thought the h233 was used in the front as well? i assumed it was like a Toy 8" being that you could swap 3rds between front and rear...

[XterraGuy]

I take it that the inversion of the third member is necessary to pre-reverse the rotation that would get re-reversed in the portals.
For lubrication issues, might be worth looking into a GQ front diff third member, they're high-pinion units and shouldn't have any lubrication problems (at least for the pinion) when inverted. Course, that kinda limits you to the HP gears because they're cut opposite the LP units, but the 3.9 ratio was used in the GQ if I recall. Don't know what the 3.5 was in.
The other issue with either would be getting oil out to the ends of the shafts, but I think that's pretty easily solved by just putting some materal in a chevron pattern on the rear of the housing so that the oil runs down them and outwards into the tubes.

Brent

[Juzza]

you can get a 3.5 but its a front only.
3.9
4.1
4.3
4.6
4.8 aftermarket

what do you mean by front only? i thought the h233 was used in the front as well? i assumed it was like a Toy 8" being that you could swap 3rds between front and rear...

3.5s are fitted to GU (y61) patrols fitted with 4.8 litre motor in AU, but the rear is a h260.

[zeeto]

you can get a 3.5 but its a front only.
3.9
4.1
4.3
4.6
4.8 aftermarket

what do you mean by front only? i thought the h233 was used in the front as well? i assumed it was like a Toy 8" being that you could swap 3rds between front and rear...

3.5s are fitted to GU (y61) patrols fitted with 4.8 litre motor in AU, but the rear is a h260.

ok so let me get this straight....

The GUs have h233 in front but h260 in rear?
So would there be a problem in taking the front 3.5 h233 gears from a GU and putting them into a rear h233?

and is that you brent? i'm trying to keep, for the most part, parts that are somewhat easily available in the US...i'd like the gears to be the only things needed from overseas

[Wendle]

the GU front is also high pinion, so you'd end up needing the whole carrier, which goes against what you are trying to achieve with availability? a high pinion turned upsidedown might help with any sump/chassis clearance problems created by the portals though??

[XterraGuy]

Yup, it's me Chris, I'm EVERYWHERE I've been mining this place for info about that hybrid MQ-rear/GQ-front SFA I hope to have built.

Using gears for an HP unit in a LP unit won't work. Well, if they're physically interchangeable (pinion length, bearing size, etc.), I suppose they would, but you would end up running on the coast side of the gears instead of the drive side, which makes the overall thing about 40% weaker as I'm told since the gears are trying to push apart under load instead of drawn together.
Shipping an entire third member from OZ shouldn't be terribly expensive if you're not in a hurry to get it here. There's a guy on Ebay that ships LSD carriers from Japan (~30 lbs or so) for $120 by air, the slow boat ought to be under $100 for an 80 lb. third member. I know some of these guys here have shipped stuff overseas before, bet someone would have a guesstimate.

Brent

[zeeto]

the GU front is also high pinion, so you'd end up needing the whole carrier, which goes against what you are trying to achieve with availability? a high pinion turned upsidedown might help with any sump/chassis clearance problems created by the portals though??

yeah that a problem. also because i want to be able to swap 3rds front to rear.
how much does a 3rd (gears & carrier) usually run from a GU? if it's not that bad then this may not be much of a problem. 3.5 is really around the gearing i'd want to run with the portal boxes...

[zeeto]

Yup, it's me Chris, I'm EVERYWHERE

yeah i figured that you were brent
when you were talking about your project i figured you would have found your way to this board...

[Wendle]

the GU front is also high pinion, so you'd end up needing the whole carrier, which goes against what you are trying to achieve with availability? a high pinion turned upsidedown might help with any sump/chassis clearance problems created by the portals though??

yeah that a problem. also because i want to be able to swap 3rds front to rear.
how much does a 3rd (gears & carrier) usually run from a GU? if it's not that bad then this may not be much of a problem. 3.5 is really around the gearing i'd want to run with the portal boxes...

no-one really buys just the centre.. a complete pair of axles can usually be had for about $1000 AUD. that is for GQ axles, GU axles are a bit more sought after due to the CV joints being quite a lot bigger, among other things.
The GU 3.5 H233 crownwheel will fit onto a GQ centre with a bit of machining. or if you are going to run air lockers, you can just buy a GU locker. the other thing is, that you are now working with front diffs that are only 31 spline, not 33.
bot a e-mail address?? I'll send you some specs.

[Wendle]

e-mail sent to the address in the little tag under your posts..

[big red]

you can use the 4.36 navarra diff in a rear 2.8 td gu carrier so maybe if the navarra has a 3.55 rear diff [i dunno if it has] you could fit a 4.8 petrol auto GU front third and a GU or GQ rear third with 3.55 navara CW&P [ if they make that ratio]
or use the 3.55 gu H260 rear diff ...
just a thought

[XterraGuy]

Not sure if it will throw a curve into any of this, but H260 thirds mate up to H233B housings, at least in some cases. Couldn't believe it myself, but for reference:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... p?p=190669
May be more gearing options, certainly may make the GU's 3.5 gears a bit easier to swallow. Dunno, just throwing that tidbit out. If you're going to be fabbing custom shafts up, doesn't matter the spline counts.

[Wendle]

the MQ ones may use the same housings, but the GQ/GU ones definitely differ. a GU H260 is pretty unmistakable..

[zeeto]

gah, thanks a lot brent, now more to consider. but if you can make it fit there really isn't anything to consider...37-spline 1.51" shaft vs. 33-spline 1.31" shaft

thanks a lot for that spec sheet wendle. my original plan was to only use 33-spline carriers for a bit more strenght.
so wendle you think that a h260 diff from a MQ may bolt up to a h233 housing? this will probably be my new route if this is true...

[zeeto]

the MQ ones may use the same housings...

does this have anything to do with the fact that it can coem with a h233 rear housing and not a h233b?
i just noticed that off the spec sheet you emailed me...it's the only one listed without the b...

[Wendle]

the MQ ones may use the same housings...

does this have anything to do with the fact that it can coem with a h233 rear housing and not a h233b?
i just noticed that off the spec sheet you emailed me...it's the only one listed without the b...

yeah, maybe. i think there is more to this though.. maybe the old h260 hemisphere will take a h233 ring gear or some shit.. i dunno??
just thinking about it, when you slide the h233 carrier into the housing, there is no way whatsoever that a ring gear 27mm bigger would fit into the hole??
i'm confused

[zeeto]

just thinking about it, when you slide the h233 carrier into the housing, there is no way whatsoever that a ring gear 27mm bigger would fit into the hole??
i'm confused

yeah that is what i was wondering today. that is a good amount more stuff to fit in there...i know to fit cruiser diffs in my 8" i'd have to grind away a bit but that's only ~.4" (~10.16mm) difference between the two

i'll have to go back to that post brent put above and ask some questions...i'd much rather have 37 spline than 33

[zeeto]

yeah, maybe. i think there is more to this though.. maybe the old h260 hemisphere will take a h233 ring gear or some shit.. i dunno??

wendle, when you say hemisphere what are you talking about? the mounting area where the 3rd member bolts up?

[Juzza]

you can get a 3.5 but its a front only.
3.9
4.1
4.3
4.6
4.8 aftermarket

what do you mean by front only? i thought the h233 was used in the front as well? i assumed it was like a Toy 8" being that you could swap 3rds between front and rear...

3.5s are fitted to GU (y61) patrols fitted with 4.8 litre motor in AU, but the rear is a h260.

Don't know if this is still of interest but i saw a GU 4.8 with h233 rear today, still running 3.5 ratios too.

[Wendle]

you can get a 3.5 but its a front only.
3.9
4.1
4.3
4.6
4.8 aftermarket

what do you mean by front only? i thought the h233 was used in the front as well? i assumed it was like a Toy 8" being that you could swap 3rds between front and rear...

3.5s are fitted to GU (y61) patrols fitted with 4.8 litre motor in AU, but the rear is a h260.

Don't know if this is still of interest but i saw a GU 4.8 with h233 rear today, still running 3.5 ratios too.

that is what he wants then..