Tuff Truck 2013 - Results...

[Rolly]

matt it depends if your grille comes out front past your tyres and to what up travel you have as to wether it would work or not .
in our case it wont cause the grille is inline with the diff and i am running 6" of uptravel .
all is good we have had 5 great years at tt and were able to meet alot of great people maybe in a couple of years we can build another car and be back again.

[Jcas24]

I wonder if someone has an interest in Performance Metals Australia? and all these people will be needing to re-bend their cages, where do you get a JD from?

Maybe they should ban any other tyre but Interco as well?

Money must be getting tight

I thought it was quiet interesting at scrutineering, that the 'industry expert' testing wall thickness was also major sponsor handing out business cards.

[morewheeldrive]

Oh well things change, and so must rules. At the end of the day what's a length or two of new pipe and some new dies when you've just gone and spent 2-3k on tyres or a v8 conversion. Most trucks in TT, the cage is the cheapest bit of gear on the truck ( stupid considering it saves you and your rig) but let's face it, it's chicken feed. Let's all suck it up and move forward with our sport. ......on another note anyone wanna buy some 40nb pipe and jd2 dies to suit :-D goin cheeeeeeap! Lol

[Z()LTAN]

its not the cash involved bro its more the fact that the cage is now an integral part of the car. Cutting it off is just not possible without pretty much starting again.

Fark that.

If all cars are going to have to adhere to 'CCDA' rules, are they all going to have to have internal roll cages as well as their current externals?

[DUDELUX]

its not the cash involved bro its more the fact that the cage is now an integral part of the car. Cutting it off is just not possible without pretty much starting again.

Fark that.

If all cars are going to have to adhere to 'CCDA' rules, are they all going to have to have internal roll cages as well as their current externals?

Im sure I read somewhere in this thread that if your exo meets the new regs, you wont need an internal cage too.
To be honest, how much safer would you feel with both internal and external cages?? It could be your life relying on the barwork.

[stock 4runner]

I think zoltan is saying its going to be easier to just fit an internal cage then make his external meet the specs. I know that's what I'm planning to do if we decide to run.

[Z()LTAN]

In no way shape or form can an 100% external cage meet CCDA specs

CCDA cage drawings are all internal (secondary impact) cages. Unless of course you have no body at all.

[alexcliffo]

matt it depends if your grille comes out front past your tyres and to what up travel you have as to wether it would work or not .
in our case it wont cause the grille is inline with the diff and i am running 6" of uptravel .
all is good we have had 5 great years at tt and were able to meet alot of great people maybe in a couple of years we can build another car and be back again.

What doesnt comply Brett, your cage materials or front profile, or both?

Will miss your Nissan at TT

[alexcliffo]

In no way shape or form can an 100% external cage meet CCDA specs

CCDA cage drawings are all internal (secondary impact) cages. Unless of course you have no body at all.

I think CCDA allows external cages that are built to internal specs

[Tuff Events]

Hey Guys,

We are looking into alternate solutions with CCDA regarding external cages. Will advise after CCDA confirms.

Regarding the Profile Rule. This was our written rule prior to this re-clarification:

QUOTE direct from TT website

"Retains the look of the original 4WD vehicle, comprising 80% of the original front profile including, Grille, Headlights & Windscreen"

Additional to this their is a Windscreen Rule that was also on the TT Site:

"Windscreens – With the nature of this event windscreens are compulsory. Windscreens must retain 95% of original size of body shape used, Lexan is an approved alternative, Mounting must be in an “original frame”, or replicated copy. ( ie. fibreglass ) No exceptions"

In my opinion, anybody that has made there grill narrower than 80% to begin with after reading the above rule, surely should have suspected that they should have seeked clarification prior to completing works.

There is also this rule which plays a huge role to everything overall.

"TEPA holds no responsibility for miss-interpretation of the building guidelines, whilst we do our best to clarify each rule there may be ways each person reads them. It is highly suggested that any competitor planning to build a vehicle for TTC, then you should contact Competition Managers Tony & Steve Price to discuss specifically your intentions"

Its all about communication guys, you are going to a lot of trouble & expense to build your trucks ( too which we appreciate immensely ) for the competition, However nearly all circumstances listed in most of the posts in this thread could have been avoided if you had studied the rules more closely or simply emailed us or even followed up with a phone call.

Overall the responses have been positive, we are not here to make your lives more difficult, however we are here to ensure that all teams are safe, CCDA compliant & adequately insured if something serious was to occur.

Regards
TT Competition Managers

[Rolly]

matt it depends if your grille comes out front past your tyres and to what up travel you have as to wether it would work or not .
in our case it wont cause the grille is inline with the diff and i am running 6" of uptravel .
all is good we have had 5 great years at tt and were able to meet alot of great people maybe in a couple of years we can build another car and be back again.

What doesnt comply Brett, your cage materials or front profile, or both?

Will miss your Nissan at TT

i was lucky enough to have competed this long knowing my front profile was just under the 80% rule and yes my cage is not legal as of 2014 .
you cant knock a rule that makes this sport safer and a few of us were pushing the boundries regarding the profile and windscreen rules .
all is good i got nothing to complain about i just would have liked to give the old bus one more year before cutting it up .

[alexcliffo]

matt it depends if your grille comes out front past your tyres and to what up travel you have as to wether it would work or not .
in our case it wont cause the grille is inline with the diff and i am running 6" of uptravel .
all is good we have had 5 great years at tt and were able to meet alot of great people maybe in a couple of years we can build another car and be back again.

What doesnt comply Brett, your cage materials or front profile, or both?

Will miss your Nissan at TT

i was lucky enough to have competed this long knowing my front profile was just under the 80% rule and yes my cage is not legal as of 2014 .
you cant knock a rule that makes this sport safer and a few of us were pushing the boundries regarding the profile and windscreen rules .
all is good i got nothing to complain about i just would have liked to give the old bus one more year before cutting it up .

Just curious Brett, I agree with the rules 100%

[want33s]

I thought it was quiet interesting at scrutineering, that the 'industry expert' testing wall thickness was also major sponsor handing out business cards.

So if I sponsor the event too can I get some custom made rules to benefit my business?

As far as I'm aware there has never been an injury to a competitor or spectator at TT yet the new cage rules are in the name of 'safety'.

[VR Rodeo]

So if I sponsor the event too can I get some custom made rules to benefit my business?

As far as I'm aware there has never been an injury to a competitor or spectator at TT yet the new cage rules are in the name of 'safety'.

Dont forget to get the blind homeless guy at the end of the street to weld it together for you, apparently that makes it all good

[Tuff Events]

I thought it was quiet interesting at scrutineering, that the 'industry expert' testing wall thickness was also major sponsor handing out business cards.

So if I sponsor the event too can I get some custom made rules to benefit my business?

As far as I'm aware there has never been an injury to a competitor or spectator at TT yet the new cage rules are in the name of 'safety'.

You are a dead set peanut!

Performance Metals is a Stage Sponsor & TT specifically engaged them to be part of scrutineering to assist us in ensuring vehicle cages are compliant with CCDA Specs.

We see fit that an Industry Expert in Tube supply would be perfect to conduct such a test, & he was handing out information packs to the teams so they have more information regarding material. Why shouldn't a Sponsor of the event be given this opportunity to promote their business & products. Hence why businesses pay $$ to be part of any event. ROI.

THESE ARE NOT RULES MADE BY TTC, THEY ARE CCDA's RULES WHO PROVIDE INSURANCE TO ALLOW US TO EVEN RUN THE EVENT. Due to non compliance of a number of teams it is our DUTY OF CARE to take measures to ensure compliance in the future. Which we have done.

We are not insisting that anyone has to buy products from Performance Metals or OPW for that matter, & for those that think that is the case you seriously need to give yourself an uppercut & get off your tall poppy tree & come back down to earth.

There are many businesses that can provide Tube or Bending equipment to address the compliance of CCDA Rules that HAVE NOT CHANGED SINCE 2005.

Added to this, why wouldn't you want to support the businesses that are actively supporting the events that we are associated with, whether you are a spectator or competitor. Without their support, there would be no future events!

[want33s]

If I'm a peanut you must be just plain ignorant.

How about answering some of the questions posted here to clarify the rules?

EG:

Just wanting to check. I'm assuming cutting sections out of the middle of the grill to clear winch motors and bar work dosnt affect my 80% so I can still cut a 1m grill down to 0.8. At a quick measure and calculation I have removed 18% out of the middle but am still at full width so can I narrow it by 20% now or 2% ?

I'd like an answer to this too...

[pricey]

I thought it was quiet interesting at scrutineering, that the 'industry expert' testing wall thickness was also major sponsor handing out business cards.

So if I sponsor the event too can I get some custom made rules to benefit my business?

As far as I'm aware there has never been an injury to a competitor or spectator at TT yet the new cage rules are in the name of 'safety'.

You are a deat set oxygen theif

What do you reckon would happen to the event if there was an accident at TT, and someone ended up badly injured or worst case killed by a cage failing, and after an investigation it was found that the competing car did not comply to the rules which TT run under through CCDA????? You reckon TT would continue ?
I'm extremely happy that there has never been an injury of this nature at TT, and would like to beleive there never would be .

One aspect to this that is extremely frustrating, is that the rollcage material specs have always been there. We are only enforcing what has always been there. Why is it that people are willing to spend 3k on a set of poofy shiney rims or a flash paint job, but dont want to fork out for the most important part of the vehicle

You want to add brain dead smart ass comments about us wanting to run a safer event, then go for it.

What would you prefer, us to look to improve the safety and well being of our competitors and the event as a whole, or just come to the conclusion that fuck it, its too much hassle and risk and pull the pin on the event?

[Tuff Events]

How about answering some of the questions posted here to clarify the rules?

EG:

Just wanting to check. I'm assuming cutting sections out of the middle of the grill to clear winch motors and bar work dosnt affect my 80% so I can still cut a 1m grill down to 0.8. At a quick measure and calculation I have removed 18% out of the middle but am still at full width so can I narrow it by 20% now or 2% ?

I'd like an answer to this too...

I don't web wheel on here all day, some Q's may get missed. So if any team or potential team seeks clarification on rules, please email us with your questions. tonyp@tuffevents.com & stevep@tuffevents.com

Regarding this one, We feel that this will be based on case by case basis. Email us some photos with what you have in mind and sketch over the photo, or send a pic of a similar mod on another vehicle.

Yes we are mainly concerned about overall width of Grill Area as this creates substantial vehicle recognition, however if the entire centre was cut & looks ridiculous, then we would not allow it.

[want33s]

You are a deat set oxygen theif

What do you reckon would happen to the event if there was an accident at TT, and someone ended up badly injured or worst case killed by a cage failing, and after an investigation it was found that the competing car did not comply to the rules which TT run under through CCDA????? You reckon TT would continue ?
I'm extremely happy that there has never been an injury of this nature at TT, and would like to beleive there never would be .

One aspect to this that is extremely frustrating, is that the rollcage material specs have always been there. We are only enforcing what has always been there. Why is it that people are willing to spend 3k on a set of poofy shiney rims or a flash paint job, but dont want to fork out for the most important part of the vehicle

You want to add brain dead smart ass comments about us wanting to run a safer event, then go for it.

What would you prefer, us to look to improve the safety and well being of our competitors and the event as a whole, or just come to the conclusion that fuck it, its too much hassle and risk and pull the pin on the event?

You are entitled to your opinion but at least I can spell THIEF...

It is the double standard that gets me... Cars with Nb cages have competed for years with the blessing of TT organisers even though they knew that CCDA wouldn't cover them.
Cars with Nb will be competing in 2013 too.

[want33s]

I don't web wheel on here all day, some Q's may get missed. So if any team or potential team seeks clarification on rules, please email us with your questions. tonyp@tuffevents.com & stevep@tuffevents.com

Regarding this one, We feel that this will be based on case by case basis. Email us some photos with what you have in mind and sketch over the photo, or send a pic of a similar mod on another vehicle.

Yes we are mainly concerned about overall width of Grill Area as this creates substantial vehicle recognition, however if the entire centre was cut & looks ridiculous, then we would not allow it.

Thankyou.

[Tuff Events]

You are a deat set oxygen theif

What do you reckon would happen to the event if there was an accident at TT, and someone ended up badly injured or worst case killed by a cage failing, and after an investigation it was found that the competing car did not comply to the rules which TT run under through CCDA????? You reckon TT would continue ?
I'm extremely happy that there has never been an injury of this nature at TT, and would like to beleive there never would be .

One aspect to this that is extremely frustrating, is that the rollcage material specs have always been there. We are only enforcing what has always been there. Why is it that people are willing to spend 3k on a set of poofy shiney rims or a flash paint job, but dont want to fork out for the most important part of the vehicle

You want to add brain dead smart ass comments about us wanting to run a safer event, then go for it.

What would you prefer, us to look to improve the safety and well being of our competitors and the event as a whole, or just come to the conclusion that fuck it, its too much hassle and risk and pull the pin on the event?

You are entitled to your opinion but at least I can spell THIEF...

It is the double standard that gets me... Cars with Nb cages have competed for years with the blessing of TT organisers even though they knew that CCDA wouldn't cover them.
Cars with Nb will be competing in 2013 too.

You are not seeing the bigger picture here, No compliance = No insurance, No Insurance = No Event. Your choice.

CCDA are happy to work with us to bring teams into line, hence why we have given teams up to 20 months to comply. ( but that's it, their has to be a deadline ) And yes all teams have been covered by CCDA to date as our behind the scenes Supps covered it. ( this is no longer an option from 2014 ) What has happened in the past is really irrelevant.

How about we take your approach, do nothing & continue as is until there is a Fatal accident. to which insurance will not hand over a single $ to anyone. That would be real satisfying to the families directly impacted.

We personally have a Duty of Care to take all measures to make the event Safe for all.

[CV Smasher]

Guys, Pete and Steve have put the new rules changes up for everyone to see and ask questions but stupid unfounded accusations are not helpful.

Event organizers soon get sick and tired of there integrity being questioned and will want to wash their hands of the event, so in the best interests of the sport please can everyone pull their head in and ask questions related to the rules not create problems.

So can we get back to the rules.

[t price]

Guys, Pete and Steve have put the new rules changes up for everyone to see and ask questions but stupid unfounded accusations are not helpful.

Event organizers soon get sick and tired of there integrity being questioned and will want to wash their hands of the event, so in the best interests of the sport please can everyone pull their head in and ask questions related to the rules not create problems.

So can we get back to the rules.

Lets not get into more garbage as Chris has just posted, I have not received any emails or calls from any of the writers of the above posts. If you need clarification email me, I will not reply to individual comments on outers.

Tony Price
TT Comp Manager with Steve

[evanstaniland]

Quick question, how often do the managers emails get checked? Just so I and others have an idea when to expect a reply?

Cheers
Evan

[want33s]

5.3.11 GUIDANCE ON WELDING

All welding shall be of the highest possible quality with full penetration and preferably using a gas
shielded arc, and shall demonstrate good workmanship.

Are there any plans to change this in future?
EG: All welds to be X-rayed

[Tuff Events]

5.3.11 GUIDANCE ON WELDING

All welding shall be of the highest possible quality with full penetration and preferably using a gas
shielded arc, and shall demonstrate good workmanship.

Are there any plans to change this in future?
EG: All welds to be X-rayed

We are in discussion with CCDA on how to approach this matter. Its a tricky one. But once a decision is made it will be advised.

I can assure you that we will be requesting a greater amount of detailed photos from teams of their roll cage design and welds.

[Tuff Events]

Quick question, how often do the managers emails get checked? Just so I and others have an idea when to expect a reply?

Cheers
Evan

I check all emails Mon-Fri, as do Tony & Steve. Expect a reply within a few days, if urgent we are only a phone call away.

[SierraDan]

its funny how people keep saying "new" rules haha

[Z()LTAN]

I'm not having a go or anything here guys but, the NB pipe i have used is Seamless, exceeds the minimum OD and ID and is of a tensile rating above 350Mpa

I cant help but feel a little annoyed at being tarred with the same brush as those using inferior seamed lower tensile pipe.

No where in the CCDA handbook does it state that no NB pipe can be used.

[Tuff Events]

I'm not having a go or anything here guys but, the NB pipe i have used is Seamless, exceeds the minimum OD and ID and is of a tensile rating above 350Mpa

I cant help but feel a little annoyed at being tarred with the same brush as those using inferior seamed lower tensile pipe.

No where in the CCDA handbook does it state that no NB pipe can be used.

This is also a clarification that is yet to be decided by CCDA.

Most of our research found teams using 42.2mm OD Pipe to which was a small OD than the spec. The problem with any pipe is that regardless of its said tensile strength there are a number of properties within the material that are not consistent with higher quality tube. Therefore making it weaker.

I'll let CCDA decide this one for us. Any team in this circumstance should email us to seek further clarification once CCDA confirms their position. One other concern about using that size (48.3mm OD ) is that without cutting a piece out of the cage and having it tested, it is difficult to determine what its true grade is. where as e.g. 1.75 Tube across the board has a consistent grade well in excess of 350mpa.