Supercharging 1HZ v.s turbo charging

[slobo]

I was thinking of supercharging my 1HZ 105 series Landcruiser. There is a kit available at: http://www.bulletcars.com/superchargers ... ystem.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am just wondering if anyone had any experience with these systems?

I wanted a supercharger over a turbo because:
It runs at lower temperatures,
It produces power from Idle (Unlike turbo, which becomes noticeable at certain RPMs)
It requires less components that need to be modified and has no impact on exhaust gases.

The only disadvantage of supercharger kit is its price, for Bulletcars kit they are asking $5700, but than DTS turbo charger kit and intercooler would cost about the same and in addition to that with turbo kit you need to upgrade the exhaust as well.

Looking forward to your opinions.

[80's_delirious]

all your reasons for wanting a supercharger In preference to turbo are incorrect or ill informed.

In many cases, turbo install is simpler, supercharger has to be precisely positioned so belts run without issue.

A properly matched turbo can produce smooth boost from 1000rpm through to redline, search here for posts from "customturbo" or threads about "Gturbo" for custom modified Toyota turbos.
Again, a properly matched turbo with correct fuel pump tune will produce plenty of power without negative impact on engine temps or exhaust temps

A supercharger creates drag on the engine, robbing power, it is running constantly vs a turbo which produces power on demand.

Do some searching in this section, there has been some good threads on turbos recently, you may just change your mind? ;-)

[TheBigBoy]

all your reasons for wanting a supercharger In preference to turbo are incorrect or ill informed.

Thats a bolt statement.

-It still gets hot, but cooler than a turbo.
-It does produce boost from idle.
-The components part is debatable.

We turbo'd 1 1HZ and supercharged another. There was hardly anything in it between the 2 running the same boost. Althought the supercharged truck ran cooler and could tow dead car bodies around with idle turned up. The only time it lagged was at high speed 130 plus is when you felt it run out of power. And the turbo kept going.

Id turbo it forsure but with a propper pump and tune. But I still wouldnt go knocking the superchargers. They definately have their place.

[Punchy]

Modern super charger technology's have advanced in leaps and bounds sure and have their place in performance automotive applications.

In this case most people dont tell you that supercharging 1hz'ed can be done but special attention is required to the harmonic balancer, as just bolting a pully on the front to drive after market kits usually has them parting company and bits flying everywhere. Additionally the cost of a supercharger installation is always almost double that of a aturbo application.. Sure you can buy "cheap" blowers, and you'll get cheap over all performance. Cheap blowers wont have reticulation bypass systems, wont make boost properly, have poor adbatic efficencies etc.. ( read: boost pressure isnt always real boost..heated and expanded air give boost pressure but less density - in short ) 2lobe and 3 lobe rotor blowers work well for give rps ranges, but most like a gm style wont have a bypass system and has a constant drag on the engine robbing of you of power and economy..yes you can have econmoy with a blower if the installation is correct.

In general tho - if anyone ever says i want a blower and i want economy they arnt well informed of the real cost of supercharging initially and overall.

Turbo charging however in your application is better.
Initial costs are lower - and yes who ever quoted you that price for the turbo and intercooler assembly needs arse kicking ..thats well over normal - not including tune up and exhaust system...
Personally i believe the full exhaust system is over rated and is more for Noise power .Not fitting it.. peak performance takes a small hit...but your pocket doesnt...dyno figures I've worked with suggest I'm right as well...1000 bucks for 10 peak HP..forget it.
Big dump pipe and a good centre muffler..ditch the rear all good.
Intercooled boost systems are definately a good practice on aspirated engines that get boosted...you can stick as much air in as you like really ( within reason ) but if the cylinder temp gets to high..thats when pistons and head gaskets say enough's enough...
Intercooled turbo systems...and blown..can see pre-cooler intake tempretures as high as 200 degree.. Fitting a good intercooler ( read into them as well i suggest ) will take anything up to 75% of the boosted heat temp out and leave you with a more managable 60 - 100 degree intake temp..
Heat in the intake charge is what leads to engine heat up and detonation. This is exacerbated if combined with a poor tune, over fuelling and or to much initial advance in the injection timing.
AS most tuning places cant adjust the advance curve of the injection pump itself internally, the total amount of injection advance isnt curbed, so most places will give a moderate initial timing setting and just fuel her up a bit to try and compensate- which then affects your overall economy to.

Additionally - blowers have a fraction of the life span to that of a good water cooled turbo with moderate boost say (1 bar . 14.7 psi) Given your starting with an aspirated engine and want it to last...8-10 psi only is a good recommendation.

Power example.
I had a 91 model factory turbo 80 series. tweaked tuned and no intercooler at 13 lb boost went and pulled like a train.
I fitted a dts turbo kit with dts intercooler assembly to my brothers 1999 100 series. I tuned it and even with the standard factory exhaust on it we had a squirt on the way home after fitting it all up.
We halled up a road with a hill on it, and the bloody thing of his over took me and went around me on the outside of the turn....it was very impressive at the time, and it only ran 7 lb's boost. Buts he's always has complained about economy as the aspirated pumps dont have boost compensators and the other trick ( and expensive to fit bits ) like a factory turbo engine pump

So in the end. the converted 100 series engine had more power..but worse economy always _ ( i always put it down to the fact he was driving a big white bus, compared to the sleek lines of an 80 series....

[80's_delirious]

Punchy, your comments re exhaust system doesn't take improvement in drive-ability into consideration.
In my experience (80series 1HD-T), adding free flowing exhaust improved bottom end torque, bottom end response, and improved response throughout the rev range. I don't doubt peak HP figures probably didn't change much, but the car was much better to drive after doing only an exhaust system upgrade.

[Z()LTAN]

I think we have been around long enough to see these threads come and go.

In this instance the best thing to do is follow the herd and go the turbo.

100's of thousands of people cant be wrong. (unless we are talking religion) lol

[RED60]

100's of thousands of people cant be wrong. (unless we are talking religion) lol

Straight to hell for you........................

I'll have a spare coal shovel ready for you....... heh heh

[Z()LTAN]

Thats fine, ill shovel that coal. Alongside everyone else...

[80's_delirious]

Interesting discussion on turbo v supercharger on Ih8mud, I've borrowed a good explanation from dougal, (aka 'kiwi bacon' on here) on the downside of supercharging a diesel.

On a petrol engine it's not as bad because they spend most of their life off boost, so when on boost and chewing fuel it doesn't matter as much because it's only a fraction of the time. But diesels spend most of their life on boost. So anything which creates boost in a way that sucks fuel (like superchargers do) is extremely bad.

A properly sized turbocharger on a diesel increases it's efficiency by up to 20% even at part load. So you are using less fuel for the crank power. A supercharger has two modes, clutched out it's a naturally aspirated engine (less efficient that turbocharged), clutched in it's putting a big drag on the crank and still not increasing engine efficiency.

At the same boost level supercharged EGT's are higher than turbocharged. At the same power level it's even better for turbochargers. At cruise a turbocharger scales it's speed and boost to match what is needed. A turbocharger can have a life as long as the engine it's bolted to.

In a nutshell, there is no diesel performance, economy or longevity point where a supercharger is better than a turbocharger.

Full thread here
http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24- ... eks-2.html