thanks 1boofa1
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Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Moderator: Micka
Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Im new to the world of Landrover, just got a 1997 s1 Disco tdi - 5speed. Stock as a rock & need to start modding it into an Fun weekend & occasional tourer. Are the 4cylinder tdi manuals really slower than a slug? What can you do to boost performance? Im in Victoria, Take it to Les Richmond autos for all mods? So do they really run 10spline axles stock? Every1 ive talked to says YOU MUST!!! upgrade to 24 splines & CRMO CV'S before any mods, they WILL fail otherwise. Can anyone offer me advice PLZ? thanks 1boofa1
thanks 1boofa1
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Welcome 1Boofa1,
Yes tdi's are generally a slug, but not always. Not sure on who to see about enhancing them or the mods available.
1997 will have 24 spline axles already.
If you only intend on running up to 33" tires you could possibly get by (I did for quiet some time), but I would always aim to have a spare set of axles in the camping/touring kit just in case.
Yes tdi's are generally a slug, but not always. Not sure on who to see about enhancing them or the mods available.
1997 will have 24 spline axles already.
If you only intend on running up to 33" tires you could possibly get by (I did for quiet some time), but I would always aim to have a spare set of axles in the camping/touring kit just in case.
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Big thanks for the welcome Grimace & I used Nankang 37x13.5x16.5 on tubes on a previous vehicle I owned & want to use these again on my 1997 s1 5 door SE- tdi, 5speed & used to go out wheeling with a couple of Rover guys( their rigs where ALWAYS breaking CV's, axles, clutch/gearbox dramas etc.) I love the Disco's & always envied Disco drivers, but MINE MUST BE RELIABLE- I'll be doing very hard Vic tracks mainly Neerim south, Gembrook, Toolangi, Narbethong, & some High country/Alpine NP w/ends- If I break down out there or on a track ( Ill be completely F*&ked). So if I do have 24 splines in my 1997 model, use Les Richmond 4.88 H/d gears? In my last ride used "LOKKA" auto locker F&R- are they available for 1997 S1 disco's? Ill be doing this on the cheap, s/hand parts- wreckers etc. So the Les Richmond XL flares the go? PLZ more advice? I really appreciate it
& I used Nankang 37x13.5x16.5 on tubes on a previous vehicle I owned & want to use these again on my 1997 s1 5 door SE- tdi, 5speed & used to go out wheeling with a couple of Rover guys( their rigs where ALWAYS breaking CV's, axles, clutch/gearbox dramas etc.) I love the Disco's & always envied Disco drivers, but MINE MUST BE RELIABLE- I'll be doing very hard Vic tracks mainly Neerim south, Gembrook, Toolangi, Narbethong, & some High country/Alpine NP w/ends- If I break down out there or on a track ( Ill be completely F*&ked). So if I do have 24 splines in my 1997 model, use Les Richmond 4.88 H/d gears? In my last ride used "LOKKA" auto locker F&R- are they available for 1997 S1 disco's? Ill be doing this on the cheap, s/hand parts- wreckers etc. So the Les Richmond XL flares the go? PLZ more advice? I really appreciate it Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
37's on a disco.... You must be rich?
I'm not quitting drinking, I'm retiring at the top of my game - sporting comeback likely.
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Hi guys, thanks to Grimace & Scanas for your input - I DO appreciate it. I AM NOT RICH & this WILL NOT be a chequebook build, I do know the reputation for ROVERS weakspots BUT- why cant I do it? If diffs are that much of a problem, swap diffs for toyota 80 series or nissan GQ's? What are the problems associated with these diff swaps? The TDi is no powerhouse but I've been told with bolt on mods- can pull a 1800kg trailer fully loaded in 5th gears with speeds12o+kph easily( I dont know how true this is?) Ive been told the TDi 5 speed is very strong and no dramas if serviced every 10k & the transfer case is plenty strong enough too? So where do i start? what are weakest parts that need replacing first? Ive been told dual mass flywheel is crap, swap fo solid & I have to do clutch now as clutch is GONE, replace with OE for $227 parts only or Xtreme( claim3xstronger than stock) complete assembly $447 parts only? Please help me I need all advice available
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Patrol and Yota diffs have been done before, have a read through the members there will be a few. They all seem to get lots and lots of teething problems that take ages to sort out. Some regret going Patrol and Yota stuff and wish they had of stuck with built rover stuff for cost. I think you'd be looking to spend at least $2000 an end to be able to run 37's if you could do somethings yourself.
I'm not quitting drinking, I'm retiring at the top of my game - sporting comeback likely.
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
anything is possible, it just depends on how much money you want to spend.
IMHO you dont need 37's on a rover and 35's will do you fine unless you want to do something like tt.
To run 35's factor in diff ratio changes, bigger axles, stronger diff centres and stronger CV's. Put all that together and you have spent $3-4K an end.
With big tyres all of these parts become wear items and second hand will probably fail you sooner than new.
You say you want reliable, then you cant go cheap.
It's like the equation for Horse Power, Reliability and Budget. You can get any two that you want but not all 3. You chose which one you want to sacrifice.
BTW dont worry about your car being highly illegal and mr plod giving you a canary the first time he see's it, leaving you with a bundle of parts and no ride.
IMHO you dont need 37's on a rover and 35's will do you fine unless you want to do something like tt.
To run 35's factor in diff ratio changes, bigger axles, stronger diff centres and stronger CV's. Put all that together and you have spent $3-4K an end.
With big tyres all of these parts become wear items and second hand will probably fail you sooner than new.
You say you want reliable, then you cant go cheap.
It's like the equation for Horse Power, Reliability and Budget. You can get any two that you want but not all 3. You chose which one you want to sacrifice.
BTW dont worry about your car being highly illegal and mr plod giving you a canary the first time he see's it, leaving you with a bundle of parts and no ride.
Warn - Dont leave home without it
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
If you need different ratio's I could see it being 3-4k, ouch !TRobbo wrote:
To run 35's factor in diff ratio changes, bigger axles, stronger diff centres and stronger CV's. Put all that together and you have spent $3-4K an end.
.
I'm not quitting drinking, I'm retiring at the top of my game - sporting comeback likely.
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
37s on the disco... firstly forget about the LRA flares you will have to cut too much panel work, the flares wont have anything to bolt to.
You will need a decent spring lift (3") and 2" body lift, extended bump stops (maybe 3"), offset rims (-30), and even then it will rub hard on the inner guards still.
Some people would adjust castor on a 3" spring lift to improve on road handling. Many different ways to go about this, all cost $$$.
So all that crap above only solves fitting the things at a given ride height.
What will break;
Rear lower links - These will bend if driven hard enough.
Rear upper a-frame ball joint mount to diff - This could tear away from the diff if shock loaded enough under climbing conditions.
Rear axles - 24 spline rear axles will break in about 33 seconds, aftermarket (hitough/rovertracks) are required and even these can be broken
Third member - Weak points are the single cross pin in the diff & the flex from the standard carrier. Aftermarket (ARB/Ashcrofts) locker are available to alleviate the two problems, but just like the aftermarket axles standard CW&P can be busted still (see next note for CWP).
CWPs - As per the third member note above, both front and rear are at risk, but given the size of tyre you plan to run, you are going to want aftermarket gears. Ashcroft are the way to go, but remember the lower the ratio (higher the number :1) the weaker the gear, so I wouldn't personally go above 4.12. Further more diff peggin is another option to further prolong any breakage.
Front Axles/CVs - Don't even bother with standard they will break about 32 seconds before the rear axles. Aftermarket axles & cv sets are available, but not many suppliers these days and getting costly. Even still the aftermarket stuff will break if you beat on it.
Panhard - Can bend if abused, but not likely, main reason for aftermarket is to adjust diff location after spring lift.
Drag link - is a toothpick. aftermarket required.
Tie/track rod - refer to drag link.
axle/diff housings - soft pumpkin face, needs protection. Diffs have been known to bend but not likely if you are not a complete bogan.
front radius arms - similar to panhard. Should be fine, although if you wish to correct castor with aftermarket then go for it.
Driveshafts - Generally wont break unless you land on them, or they have been previously damaged. Aftermarket is available (tom woods is my preference).
Transfer case - Yes they are pretty darn strong, but the two piece cross shaft design has been known to fail. Aftermarket is the go (ashcrofts/macnamara) but unless you can fit it yourself it will be uber costly.
What else will be required;
All the effort you porbably want to get some better flex so you will need shocks, shock mounts (raised if you go much larger compressed length shocks), extended brake lines, spring retainers (strong ones).
Then you need all the regular gear, like body protection & bar work etc etc...
Even after doing all the above, I would still recommend carrying a spare set of axles, a spare kit of hose clamps and zip ties, a spare rear lower link.
The tdi will struggle a little on road and probably off road. Lowr ange gearing for the transfer case is available but that's just more $$$$ (prob best to do it at the same time you do the single piece cross shaft.
I always said to myself you need $15000 to make a pretty damn orsum rover, and to fit 37s your getting into the pretty damn orsum category, of course you can spend less (much less), but it wont be all that reliable!
You will need a decent spring lift (3") and 2" body lift, extended bump stops (maybe 3"), offset rims (-30), and even then it will rub hard on the inner guards still.
Some people would adjust castor on a 3" spring lift to improve on road handling. Many different ways to go about this, all cost $$$.
So all that crap above only solves fitting the things at a given ride height.
What will break;
Rear lower links - These will bend if driven hard enough.
Rear upper a-frame ball joint mount to diff - This could tear away from the diff if shock loaded enough under climbing conditions.
Rear axles - 24 spline rear axles will break in about 33 seconds, aftermarket (hitough/rovertracks) are required and even these can be broken
Third member - Weak points are the single cross pin in the diff & the flex from the standard carrier. Aftermarket (ARB/Ashcrofts) locker are available to alleviate the two problems, but just like the aftermarket axles standard CW&P can be busted still (see next note for CWP).
CWPs - As per the third member note above, both front and rear are at risk, but given the size of tyre you plan to run, you are going to want aftermarket gears. Ashcroft are the way to go, but remember the lower the ratio (higher the number :1) the weaker the gear, so I wouldn't personally go above 4.12. Further more diff peggin is another option to further prolong any breakage.
Front Axles/CVs - Don't even bother with standard they will break about 32 seconds before the rear axles. Aftermarket axles & cv sets are available, but not many suppliers these days and getting costly. Even still the aftermarket stuff will break if you beat on it.
Panhard - Can bend if abused, but not likely, main reason for aftermarket is to adjust diff location after spring lift.
Drag link - is a toothpick. aftermarket required.
Tie/track rod - refer to drag link.
axle/diff housings - soft pumpkin face, needs protection. Diffs have been known to bend but not likely if you are not a complete bogan.
front radius arms - similar to panhard. Should be fine, although if you wish to correct castor with aftermarket then go for it.
Driveshafts - Generally wont break unless you land on them, or they have been previously damaged. Aftermarket is available (tom woods is my preference).
Transfer case - Yes they are pretty darn strong, but the two piece cross shaft design has been known to fail. Aftermarket is the go (ashcrofts/macnamara) but unless you can fit it yourself it will be uber costly.
What else will be required;
All the effort you porbably want to get some better flex so you will need shocks, shock mounts (raised if you go much larger compressed length shocks), extended brake lines, spring retainers (strong ones).
Then you need all the regular gear, like body protection & bar work etc etc...
Even after doing all the above, I would still recommend carrying a spare set of axles, a spare kit of hose clamps and zip ties, a spare rear lower link.
The tdi will struggle a little on road and probably off road. Lowr ange gearing for the transfer case is available but that's just more $$$$ (prob best to do it at the same time you do the single piece cross shaft.
I always said to myself you need $15000 to make a pretty damn orsum rover, and to fit 37s your getting into the pretty damn orsum category, of course you can spend less (much less), but it wont be all that reliable!
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Thanks Grimace, Scanas, Trobbo for all your advice- Its GR8 as Im only a new "ROVER MAN" - Im not just being a NOB & saying I wanna run 37's. A 4WD club I used to be a member of & cant wait to join again really needs you to have the BIG rubber as almost every1 is running 37's & over my old ride I used 36" Simex centrepedes & I was the smallest on most trips. So a close friend owns a 4Wd wreckers & if I can get bits from there will help me with $$$. My Disco is already named the"Junkyard Dog" So Im not a tightass & will spend $$$ if its necc. & theres no cheap alternative, I think I'll use the 4wd systems H/D part time 4wd kit( any feedback plz?) or do I bite the bullet & put 60,80 series diffs under? or GQ's as I can aquire either? Im building this rig to my own exact requirements e.g tracks I like to drive? What do I do PLZ any1? Thanks 1boofa1
So Im not a tightass & will spend $$$ if its necc. & theres no cheap alternative, I think I'll use the 4wd systems H/D part time 4wd kit( any feedback plz?) or do I bite the bullet & put 60,80 series diffs under? or GQ's as I can aquire either? Im building this rig to my own exact requirements e.g tracks I like to drive? What do I do PLZ any1? Thanks 1boofa1Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
don't bother with the part time kit, money wasted for no improvement on or offroad.1boofa1 wrote:Thanks Grimace, Scanas, Trobbo for all your advice- Its GR8 as Im only a new "ROVER MAN" - Im not just being a NOB & saying I wanna run 37's. A 4WD club I used to be a member of & cant wait to join again really needs you to have the BIG rubber as almost every1 is running 37's & over my old ride I used 36" Simex centrepedes & I was the smallest on most trips. So a close friend owns a 4Wd wreckers & if I can get bits from there will help me with $$$. My Disco is already named the"Junkyard Dog"
Spend them dollars on something useful.
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
The size of your weener is not measured by the size of your tyres.1boofa1 wrote: A 4WD club I used to be a member of & cant wait to join again really needs you to have the BIG rubber as almost every1 is running 37's & over my old ride I used 36" Simex centrepedes & I was the smallest on most trips.
Just remember it's a rover and you have small pumpkins. On my d1 I ran 33's, 34's or 35's depending on where I was going and tread type required. (Yes my wife thought I was crazy having 20 wheels for just 1 car). Because of my smaller pumpkins I regularily got to places on my 33's people in their patrol's on 36's could not. And I regularily set and tested Ateco tracks on 34's for trucks racing on 37's.
37's on a rover is getting pretty extreme and illegal
Warn - Dont leave home without it
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
A BIG thanks again to Grimace, Scanas, Trobbo for valuable advice & Im starting to understand what your all trying to say & im going to take your advice so 315/75/16 M/T on the "Junkyard Dog" But i'll still need to upgrade my S1 diff strength- are the 30 spline Toyo conversions good? who makes them? $$$ involved? Or can I brace & laminate? standard diffs upgrade to CRMO CV's, the 4.88 h/d gears from Les Richmond autos &" Lokkas" F&R(if available) or if i have to Detroit Lockers F & R. I wanted to put the P/T 4WD Systems kit in just to try & save some money on fuel cost? Am I being more realistic now? I do not want an unrealiable Disco, I will put $$$ in as to try and "bulletproof" it? Thanks again 1boofa1
But i'll still need to upgrade my S1 diff strength- are the 30 spline Toyo conversions good? who makes them? $$$ involved? Or can I brace & laminate? standard diffs upgrade to CRMO CV's, the 4.88 h/d gears from Les Richmond autos &" Lokkas" F&R(if available) or if i have to Detroit Lockers F & R. I wanted to put the P/T 4WD Systems kit in just to try & save some money on fuel cost? Am I being more realistic now? I do not want an unrealiable Disco, I will put $$$ in as to try and "bulletproof" it? Thanks again 1boofa1Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
Any more advice out there please guys?
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
there is lots of information on what you are asking and a search will provide you with your answers. I just did a search on the term toy conversion and came up with 58 pages of results. Here are a couple of relevant ones that you may find enlightening.
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... n#p2069670" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... n#p2113740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... n#p2013928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some of these threads are even on the front page of the rover section
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... n#p2069670" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... n#p2113740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic ... n#p2013928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some of these threads are even on the front page of the rover section
Warn - Dont leave home without it
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
I agree with Grimace and would go with ashcroft centres, axles and cvs as its a lot less drama. if you go with diff swap you have to modify mounts, tailshafts, steering, etc etc and deal with the drama that comes with that when you do break something. It becomes a lot harder to find replacement parts when everything is modified.. The ashcroft gear is fine there is guys running it in winch comps with v8s and with out any dramas and they push pretty hard they do only run 35s tho. Scott runs a Defender and does comps like tough tracks on 37s with ashcroft gear and he loves it.
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Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
A big thanks to Grimace,Scanas,Trobbo & Kirby- for all your valuable advice & I wont do diff swaps, will run the "ashcroft gear" - Im in Victoria & H8 buying online- much prefer buying off a person, do I go to Les Richmond Autos in Thomastown? thanks again 1boofa1
Re: Hello Outer Limits 4x4
I know your in Victoria but the guys I am talking about are British Off Road in Queensland, They know there stuff and run ashcroft gear in comp trucks them selves. I would talk to them and Les Richmond. Get there advice and go from there.
http://www.britishoffroad.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.britishoffroad.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks to, All the sponsors who support ROCKIT 4X4 CHALLENGE.
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