efs, ironman or tuff dog suspension

[flyinwall]

ok after all the responses i have received saying they will fit i took a trip out to the wreckers and got myself a pair out of a 2001 triton ($88 each)
got them home and removed a spring from the challenger and laid them out besides each other and..........

they are NOT the same.... triton spring on the top
take notice to the front of the spring



considering how much bow is in the challenger springs they sat almost flat while on the car

distance from wheel to guard with original springs (6")


"new" spring pack after i added a leaf from the triton pack and changed the overload springs over (the pack on the bottom)



and the new distance from wheel to guard with the "new" spring pack (after i went for a drive to settle them in)(8")



there is also another reason why the triton springs wont fit the challenger as the front spring pin is a different size, triton is 14mm challenger is 16mm

[flyinwall]

please tell me WTF that /\/\ has got to do with anything on this thread

[stilivn]

Ok so which one of you lot is the mistress??.

I am trying to figure out who has what up whos arse and how who found out about who had what up the other whos arse!

You looking for tips again? You sic fk

[ferog]

Cool it guys. I started a clean up then given up hence why some comments remain, it's not hard to have some consideration and tolerance.

Next person to post up inflammatory comments or crap in here will be banned.

[6.5 rangie]

Hey really sorry to here about your little brother. No harm was meant in my comment, i only posted that because it seemed no research or effort went into your first question. Now it seems my post was pulled, not sure why, but presume i was supposed to know about your circumstanses, which i had no idea. Once again sorry to here of your misfortune.

[flyinwall]

Hey really sorry to here about your little brother. No harm was meant in my comment, i only posted that because it seemed no research or effort went into your first question. Now it seems my post was pulled, not sure why, but presume i was supposed to know about your circumstanses, which i had no idea. Once again sorry to here of your misfortune.

i had nothing to do with any posts being deleted as that was the mods (and no i didnt contact them about anything on this thread)
and thank you for your condolances
there was research done before i posted but it seams i am the first person to want to put triton springs in a challenger

[RO8M]

ok after all the responses i have received saying they will fit i took a trip out to the wreckers and got myself a pair out of a 2001 triton ($88 each)
got them home and removed a spring from the challenger and laid them out besides each other and..........

they are NOT the same.... triton spring on the top
take notice to the front of the spring

img

considering how much bow is in the challenger springs they sat almost flat while on the car

distance from wheel to guard with original springs (6")
img

"new" spring pack after i added a leaf from the triton pack and changed the overload springs over (the pack on the bottom)

img

and the new distance from wheel to guard with the "new" spring pack (after i went for a drive to settle them in)(8")

img

there is also another reason why the triton springs wont fit the challenger as the front spring pin is a different size, triton is 14mm challenger is 16mm

Excellent result.

[V.W.Dave]

To Piglet please explain how these are good quality bushings.
Nissan Navara with 80k on the clock 60k on the TJM Gold shocks/struts. Rear shocks the bushings are falling out. The front struts lower bush has callapsed.






Toyota Hilux with 170k on the clock this is the second set of TJM Golds on the front. Same story as the D22 the front struts lower bush has callapsed.



The D22 is in the workshop right now having all the bushings replaced. The Hilux lower bushings are on order and will be repaced AGAIN on monday.

Piglet I know you run a huge store down in Brizy and you may fit out 10 times the amout of utes we do but the mine utes you fit out leave and go to work and MOST of them would never come back to you as you are over 200ks away from the mines. ALL of our utes come back to this workshop EVERY 5k. From what we have found TJM Gold shocks/struts are good but the bushings are worthless.

[flyinwall]

hey dave, could the condition of the rubbers possibly be from the extreme situations that they are subject to a (and was it a component failure or just the rubber bushes)

[V.W.Dave]

hey dave, could the condition of the rubbers possibly be from the extreme situations that they are subject to a (and was it a component failure or just the rubber bushes)

Our utes do get driven hard as in the amount of ks put on them but these utes never see the inside of a mine pit. Only our Patrols make it into the pit. These utes have only been driven to and from the mine sites. SO yes they do get some of the mine dust on them and that could contribute to them failing but the EFS and Tough Dog shocks we use will easly go over 100ks before anything like this happens. The strut bush has a solid sleeve so they cant be over tightend and they have always been tightend when the weight of the ute is on them. The rear shock pin have a shoulder on them that the big bush washer can not go over so they cant be over tightend either. The shock bushings are not as bad as the strut bushings but they all fail. The shocks are good I have not seen any of them leak its just the bush we have problems with. Our big local TJM store keeps plenty of the lower strut bushings in stock for a reason.

[GRIMACE]

Hey dave, That first shot looks to me that someone got a bit happy with the air ratchet and has well over tighten the bushes.
Other then that, carry on!

[Guy]

The TJM shock bush is likely wider than the factory unit .. so the shoulder on the mount is now incorrect and the nut is over tightened. ( would be my guess )

[V.W.Dave]

Hey dave, That first shot looks to me that someone got a bit happy with the air ratchet and has well over tighten the bushes.
Other then that, carry on!

When they ( notice I didnt say IF) Fail they split accros the bottom and then push out like you see in the picture. The stud that the bush/shock eye goes over has a shoulder on it that makes it impossible to over tighten. I will admit they are a little tighter fit then a factory set but they are not as tight as the tough dog bush but the tough dog have a much lower failure rate.

Out of interest I did a quick google search on TJM Gold bush failing and seems like I am not the only one.

[V.W.Dave]

VERY VERY interesting... Its funny how you talk about somethng and for some strange reason it comes true. I have just had a blow in customer with a 2010 hilux with a noise in the front end put it up on the hoist and guess what struts it has in the front end....... I bet you have no idea. Well let me kill the suspence. Its a set of TJM GOLDs. This customer had them fitted 3 years ago in Melb. They have done about 50k. Lucky for him I had a few spair bushings I could press in for him. I wil up load a picture in a few mins of just how bad these bushes can get. This is the worst one I have come across.

[V.W.Dave]

My phone died before I could upload what it looked like in the car but I will put that up when I get home. Just so we can see the quality lower bush in all its glory
What do we have here ahhhh the supply of 4 we keep on hand because need to.

[V.W.Dave]

Looky Looky ^^^^^^^ three posts in a row Yahhhhhyyyy I am a post whore

[GRIMACE]

Looky Looky ^^^^^^^ three posts in a row Yahhhhhyyyy I am a post whore

um I count 4

[V.W.Dave]

Such high quality that were tested for 3 yrs and never had any problems my ass. Just because a product says something on the side of the box ( "THEY CLAIM" ) doesn't make the product good. Yes they do have a 3 yr warranty but that warranty doesn't cover my labor to replace them. Just that part. As I have already said I would put EFS in anything it will fit 10 times before a Gold simply because I don't like to have to do a job 2 or 3 times.
In about a week or so when we have another set of golds come in and if I am not in a rush to replace them I will make a how to replace your golds lower bush video so when you need to replace yours you can look this up and know how.

Here is the picture of the customers lower strut bush. 3 yrs and 50k after install. This is not a mine truck and it only ever goes off road ones or twice a year.


Piglet can you please come back and preach to us some more about how good these shocks are I always enjoy having people tell me how wrong I am.

[flyinwall]

ok dave ((thank you for keeping my thread up in the top ))

I keep hearing you bag these shocks but am yet to see the actual shock fail only the rubber bush, so if it is only the bush that is failing and not the actual shock why dont you start to bag the bush and not the shock as from all the pics you have shown all i can see is a worn out bush and not a blown out shock,,,, so what is the actual problem..... some worn out bushes or some blown out shocks?????? (which is cheaper to replace, a bush or a complete shock???)

Ps. what do you expect when you drive on some of the worlds harshest roads

[V.W.Dave]

ok dave ((thank you for keeping my thread up in the top ))

I keep hearing you bag these shocks but am yet to see the actual shock fail only the rubber bush, so if it is only the bush that is failing and not the actual shock why dont you start to bag the bush and not the shock as from all the pics you have shown all i can see is a worn out bush and not a blown out shock,,,, so what is the actual problem..... some worn out bushes or some blown out shocks?????? (which is cheaper to replace, a bush or a complete shock???)

Ps. what do you expect when you drive on some of the worlds harshest roads

As I have said a few times now the shocks/struts them selfs are good the cheap bushs are there down fall.

The shock bushings are not as bad as the strut bushings but they all fail. The shocks are good I have not seen any of them leak its just the bush we have problems with. Our big local TJM store keeps plenty of the lower strut bushings in stock for a reason.

[flyinwall]

i do believe this was the last thing you wrote
Piglet can you please come back and preach to us some more about how good these shocks are I always enjoy having people tell me how wrong I am.


can you show me a shock or strut bush (of any brand) that has never failed??? (they will ALL wear out and "fail")

i suggest you give up before you dig yourself in too much deeper (or no winch will be able to get you out of that hole)

[hotgemini]

flyinwall: Jesus fucking christ, do you know absolutely nothing about good marketing?

Upon hearing of a customer complaint;
Step 1) At least pretend to listen
Step 2) Validate the concern (note: this doesn't mean you have to admit it exists)
Step 3) Promise some sort of follow-up

What you're doing is only making TJM products look awful (far more effectively than V.W. Dave is). Don't take my word for it though, ring up a TJM state/national sales manager, get him to read this thread and I'm quite confident he'll promptly shit bricks and tell you to stop attacking the end-user in a public forum.

Wow, just wow.

-Adam.

[V.W.Dave]

When the bush fails the product fails. When you buy a shock/strut the bush comes with it. The shock/valving are good I would say above average but the lack in quality of the bush they put in the shocks make them a pore quality product over all. I am not even going to try to explain that any further no need to.

If TJM started using better quality bushs then they would have probably the best product on the market and I have no problem in saying that because I believe its the truth.

You said they are driven on the harshes roads around? Our D22s and Hiluxs only ever see highway to and from the mines and at most 500m of on site work to get to the workshop they never go down into the pits. They just do ALOT of highway to and from each shift.

Adam,
I like the TJM brand they have some great products and good warrantys. To a customer walking in the front door asking about the Golds I will never tell them how bad the bushs are I will just talk about how good the warranty is and how they were tested and and and.... But if a customer asks me what I would use I will walk them out to one of our work utes and point out the EFS stickers that are on most of our utes.

On here and to freinds I have no problem being very open and bluntly honest about a product as you have already read. The workshop I am in has no real ties to any brand at all we keep some TJM stuff in stock, some Tough dog stuff and a lot of EFS on the shelf. If a customer is blinded but the advertising of how great a bad product is and wants it I will sell it to them.

Either way I think I am over this now. I know what I would use and I know what I always recomend first second and last.

[flyinwall]

hey hotgemini if you actually read my posts i am asking dave what is it he is actually complaining about is it the shocks/struts or the bushes cause he runs down the shocks/struts when it is only the bushes that are wearing out because of the conditions in which they are being used, so before you go jumping on the bandwagon with dave and helping him dig his hole deeper you might want to actually read what i have written

[-Scott-]

hey hotgemini if you actually read my posts i am asking dave what is it he is actually complaining about is it the shocks/struts or the bushes cause he runs down the shocks/struts when it is only the bushes that are wearing out because of the conditions in which they are being used, so before you go jumping on the bandwagon with dave and helping him dig his hole deeper you might want to actually read what i have written

If you go back and read all of Dave's post, he has also reported cases of non-mining vehicles with failure of the bushes from what would appear to be mild usage.

I also take exception to your "only the bushes" argument. Nobody expects dampers to last forever; it is well understood that they wear, and will require replacement. Many manufacturers seem to be able to make their bushes last as long as the dampers - why can't TJM with this product? Obviously, you have a different opinion, but I'd be a little annoyed if I had to pay the labour to have "only the bushes" replaced during warranty, particularly if I didn't do a lot of off-road driving.

I have no particular opinion of TJM, one way or another. But after reading this thread, I wouldn't be in a hurry to purchase their dampers, because it looks to me like they use crap bushes.

[Shieldsy]

I love tjm suspension, it's cheap and iv never had a drama. I don't know what your all on about

[V.W.Dave]

Well you all know I am never one to put salt in the fresh cuts but then again.....
This is our Hilux that is a taxi to and from the mine site and only ever goes to the workshop. Looking through the books this one has had the bushs replaced 2 times and now this.

Great Product

[GRIMACE]

looks fine to me, bit of tape and a couple of large zip ties... maybe a hose clamp, and your back in business.

[76 Tourer]

Not wishing to debate what's good and what's not ... But have seen the exact ^^^^ same thing happen 10 +times to the genuine struts on Hilux, an EFS strut (once) along with a (single) Amada extreme . Possibly not the shock's fault just a shit design from Toyota.

[-Scott-]

Dave, does this wear happen before or after the bottom mount fails?