Willowglen Challenge 2013

[brad 93hilux]

Brad

The way your shackle is in the recovery point allows the pin to bind. Irrespective of whether the rating of the shackle is well above the requirement you should allow this to happen. I do agree that the majority of people have their recovery points set up this way but we are now talking about a vertical lift. In the case of lifting with 1 recovery point I dont see there would be too much issue, However I would assume that the recoveries will make use of both recovery points on the front or rear of the vehicle causing the chain to triangulate (as per thunders image).
This causes the pin to bind or worse spread the legs of the shackle. The load should be on the pin, not on the legs where the pin passes through. To correctly do a vertical lift with the pin in the recovery point, the axis of the pin needs to run in the direction front to back along the vehicle. but this obviously wouldnt allow a horizontal recovery.

The design of the bow shackle allows the bow end (not the pin end) to to take a load in multiple directions.
I dont proclaim to be a rigger but I design heavy machinery in excess of 10T where lifting points need to be considered.
Whether youre lifting 50kg or 20T the same principles should be applied.


Paul

Yep fair point, but the stress would be minimally different.

But it's still going to be pulling on a angle between the two points, only difference is less binding.

I'm not disputing adrenalin's points have slightly less load on them, but more to the point that it is still over engineered.
Having my points welded on would be much stronger again.

In my case my truck weighs a max of 2T
So that's approx 600kg each front point and roughly maybe 400kg each on rear, then it depends if it was stuck in mud or weather it's leaning to one side.

Either way with the pins binding its still overkill and safe.
A 12mm 12.9 grade bolt (that I have used) is rated to around 10T depending on the load being applied.

Brad

[thunder]

People are still going to turn up with hooks and be allowed to compete.
Maybe the events are going to use a spreader bar.

[GU_247]

Brad

The way your shackle is in the recovery point allows the pin to bind. Irrespective of whether the rating of the shackle is well above the requirement you should allow this to happen. I do agree that the majority of people have their recovery points set up this way but we are now talking about a vertical lift. In the case of lifting with 1 recovery point I dont see there would be too much issue, However I would assume that the recoveries will make use of both recovery points on the front or rear of the vehicle causing the chain to triangulate (as per thunders image).
This causes the pin to bind or worse spread the legs of the shackle. The load should be on the pin, not on the legs where the pin passes through. To correctly do a vertical lift with the pin in the recovery point, the axis of the pin needs to run in the direction front to back along the vehicle. but this obviously wouldnt allow a horizontal recovery.

The design of the bow shackle allows the bow end (not the pin end) to to take a load in multiple directions.
I dont proclaim to be a rigger but I design heavy machinery in excess of 10T where lifting points need to be considered.
Whether youre lifting 50kg or 20T the same principles should be applied.


Paul

Yep fair point, but the stress would be minimally different.

But it's still going to be pulling on a angle between the two points, only difference is less binding.

I'm not disputing adrenalin's points have slightly less load on them, but more to the point that it is still over engineered.
Having my points welded on would be much stronger again.

In my case my truck weighs a max of 2T
So that's approx 600kg each front point and roughly maybe 400kg each on rear, then it depends if it was stuck in mud or weather it's leaning to one side.

Either way with the pins binding its still overkill and safe.
A 12mm 12.9 grade bolt (that I have used) is rated to around 10T depending on the load being applied.

Brad

If the shackle pin stretches from the legs of the shackle being spread think of it in the same scenario of a a wheel stud being stretched...now we all know what happens once they stretch and let go...I know this is an extreme scenario but a shackle can be fatigued without visible signs...I have no doubt that hundreds of vehicles will get lifted out without any issue. It would be good to get some clarification on this from the event organisers.

[brad 93hilux]

People are still going to turn up with hooks and be allowed to compete.
Maybe the events are going to use a spreader bar.

They really should be firm and say sorry, go fix it. Surely there is enough warning and I'm sure it will be outlined in the rules given to competing vehicles when registering.

Spreader bar still wouldn't make it safe. But would be better for the new style recovery points.

Regards GU-247. They are still valid points I'm not denying but I believe in my experience and knowledge that what I have would never fail.

The points and shackles should be inspected before/ after recoveries. A 4.7 ton shackle and you would be surprised how much abuse they take in the real world, really a 3.25 ton shackle is over rated, so them making it 4.7 (even for a dirty big poootrol ) will be fine.

Brad

[DUDELUX]

Does anyone have an email address for whoever it is that runs Willowglen??

Im trying to get hold of a list of requirements, so I can be certain that Im building/fitting the correct stuff. I want to get down there knowing Im 100% compliant.

Ive sent off a few emails to the address on the clubs website, but have had no replies yet. Maybe they have the same amount of faith in the Dudlux being comp ready as Tony Price does.

[evanstaniland]

Any more thought out into an open class?

[ET4Runner]

Got a email back from TLCC

The rules for 2013 Willowglen Challenge will be the same as last year with the exception of the addition of two recovery points on the front and back of the vehicle (a total of 4 points). The plate needs to be 75mm x 12mm thick and support a hole which allows a 4.7 shackle to be inserted. This allows us to use excavators for recoveries. The plate needs to be mounted as close to the chassis rail as possible.

Regards

Peter

So that's great news, now I know where I stand..

Brad

This seems pretty clear....

[pricey]

Don't know if its a mistake in the recovery point material size, 10x75mm is only needed for TT and toperi, not 12mm?

[DUDELUX]

Got a email back from TLCC

The rules for 2013 Willowglen Challenge will be the same as last year with the exception of the addition of two recovery points on the front and back of the vehicle (a total of 4 points). The plate needs to be 75mm x 12mm thick and support a hole which allows a 4.7 shackle to be inserted. This allows us to use excavators for recoveries. The plate needs to be mounted as close to the chassis rail as possible.

Regards

Peter

So that's great news, now I know where I stand..

Brad

This seems pretty clear....

If this ^^^ was for me, I dont have the rules from last years event, which is why Im trying to find the person that has all the rules. So I can build the DL to meet the regs.

If anyone has a copy of the rules, that they could email me, please PM me.

[MrsForby]

Any more thought out into an open class?

I was actually talking to senior about this at TTC. The DA on the land won't permit an open class. It's not a club decision, but a Council one so unfortunately there's a lot more to it.

[MrsForby]

Got a email back from TLCC

The rules for 2013 Willowglen Challenge will be the same as last year with the exception of the addition of two recovery points on the front and back of the vehicle (a total of 4 points). The plate needs to be 75mm x 12mm thick and support a hole which allows a 4.7 shackle to be inserted. This allows us to use excavators for recoveries. The plate needs to be mounted as close to the chassis rail as possible.

Regards

Peter

So that's great news, now I know where I stand..

Brad

This seems pretty clear....

If this ^^^ was for me, I dont have the rules from last years event, which is why Im trying to find the person that has all the rules. So I can build the DL to meet the regs.

If anyone has a copy of the rules, that they could email me, please PM me.

Someone help him out - I wanna see how the supernavi works with a different driver!

[DUDELUX]

You just wanna see the Dudlux on its side Jess. Its ok, you can admit it.

[evanstaniland]

Any more thought out into an open class?

I was actually talking to senior about this at TTC. The DA on the land won't permit an open class. It's not a club decision, but a Council one so unfortunately there's a lot more to it.

Yea this was mentioned. But is there any reason why an application for a change in DA can't be done? Even for one year with a report done afterwards to determine if it can be a viable future change.
Just seeing as the amount of people building tuff truck style vehicles and buggies having another event to play at would be good.

[DUDELUX]

Personally I think we need to have more entry level comps, but thats probably a discussion better to have round the campfire or in a new thread. Not in here.

[turbo gu]

Any more thought out into an open class?

I was actually talking to senior about this at TTC. The DA on the land won't permit an open class. It's not a club decision, but a Council one so unfortunately there's a lot more to it.

Yea this was mentioned. But is there any reason why an application for a change in DA can't be done? Even for one year with a report done afterwards to determine if it can be a viable future change.
Just seeing as the amount of people building tuff truck style vehicles and buggies having another event to play at would be good.

Its been mentioned various times apart from the DA its getting more volunteers to help at working bees to build, modify tracks, run the event etc.
Also for TLCC is it worth the effort for maybe a handful off trucks??

[t price]

It has been confirmed to all Willowglen Team managers that the recovery plate is "10" mm plate, not 12 mm as in a prior post. This makes the recovery points consistent with Tuff Truck and Topiri. It is also in the latest CCDA rules.

[evanstaniland]

Any more thought out into an open class?

I was actually talking to senior about this at TTC. The DA on the land won't permit an open class. It's not a club decision, but a Council one so unfortunately there's a lot more to it.

Yea this was mentioned. But is there any reason why an application for a change in DA can't be done? Even for one year with a report done afterwards to determine if it can be a viable future change.
Just seeing as the amount of people building tuff truck style vehicles and buggies having another event to play at would be good.

Its been mentioned various times apart from the DA its getting more volunteers to help at working bees to build, modify tracks, run the event etc.
Also for TLCC is it worth the effort for maybe a handful off trucks??

I dont think so.
the tracks dont need to be changed. maybe just look at the scoring system IF that. i think that the scores will just be closer in an outlaw class. everyone has shitty days driving.
Even with a handfull of cars its good to get them out and drive under comp conditions and put on a bit of a show.

[turbo gu]

Any more thought out into an open class?

I was actually talking to senior about this at TTC. The DA on the land won't permit an open class. It's not a club decision, but a Council one so unfortunately there's a lot more to it.

Yea this was mentioned. But is there any reason why an application for a change in DA can't be done? Even for one year with a report done afterwards to determine if it can be a viable future change.
Just seeing as the amount of people building tuff truck style vehicles and buggies having another event to play at would be good.

Its been mentioned various times apart from the DA its getting more volunteers to help at working bees to build, modify tracks, run the event etc.
Also for TLCC is it worth the effort for maybe a handful off trucks??

I dont think so.
the tracks dont need to be changed. maybe just look at the scoring system IF that. i think that the scores will just be closer in an outlaw class. everyone has shitty days driving.
Even with a handfull of cars its good to get them out and drive under comp conditions and put on a bit of a show.

Not changing the tracks 1 year might get away with it but I would bet that most outlaw cars wouldnt come a second time if you didnt! Who is going to want to tow a car 3/4/5hours to drive easy tracks.

[evanstaniland]

I know a few that would. Even if you put a max tyre size on it.
We took our bundy down one year and had a ball. Now we have full hydro and a few other bits I'm non compliant.
I'd still look at bringing my buggy down too

[Ratty562]

So your saying I can't weld a plate under my chassis and weld the point on it

[DUDELUX]

I think the recovery points need to be setup similar to what they have at TTC. Points easily accessible to the front and rear, so they can be strapped and picked up with an excavator or something like that.

Having points under the vehicle like that will be ok for snatch recoveries, but they dont normally do snatch recoveries at willowglen, they use an excavator on most tracks.

[t price]

I totally agree with Dudlux on the recovery points. Pete from the Willowglen commitee said they would be under the same specs and rules as Tuff truck and Topiri.
That means they should be attatched so the shackle can be used horizontally for pulling and then be able to swing upwards for a verticle lift.
The plates you show in your pictures are ideal in size but should be on the front of your comp truck.Not underneath.
The reason a 4.7T shackle is asked for is not for the loading, but to easily allow 2 or more strap loops to fit.

[DUDELUX]

Ok, dumb question time.
Do the driver and navi of a team need to be in the same club?? Me in 1 4x4 club, and navi in a different club??

[turbo gu]

I totally agree with Dudlux on the recovery points. Pete from the Willowglen commitee said they would be under the same specs and rules as Tuff truck and Topiri.
That means they should be attatched so the shackle can be used horizontally for pulling and then be able to swing upwards for a verticle lift.
The plates you show in your pictures are ideal in size but should be on the front of your comp truck.Not underneath.
The reason a 4.7T shackle is asked for is not for the loading, but to easily allow 2 or more strap loops to fit.

looks like they got their rules wrong as all the paperwork asks for 3.7t shackles not 4.7t shackles.

Yes Dudelux the driver and nai need to be members of the competing club for insurance reasons

[brad 93hilux]

If anyone is looking for a club to compete send me a msg or give me a ring as well sprung have 1 maybe 2 places at this stage, only thing is i want to send in forms/money in a few weeks so need to he a definate if your keen
Basic cost/what you need to come join us
-need the $220 entry money and be able to comply with regs and fill in forms which includes driver/navi + partners (total 4)
-have/join ccda
-join well sprung $60/year plus $10 for a window sticker..

Brad

[brad 93hilux]

Well Sprung have a team together now so thanks for the messages from those interested.

Brad

[jono4x4]

Due to a couple of our trucks not being able to compete this year, if anyone is looking for another truck I'd be keen. Ph 0414267008

Cheers

John

[MrsForby]

Bump.

I'm heading down bright and early Sunday. Work's fully booked on Saturday so I can't get out of it.

Tone, you gotta still be driving when I get there, or I'm cable tie-ing you and Mel inside your tent!

[Vortech Disco]

HI guys im very keen for a run in willowglen, we cant get enough cars for a team so looking for a run with another club, cheers guys, Dan 0422272440

[TLCC]

I have heard there may be vacancies in the Canobolas Team. I can't speak for them, but may be an option for one or two.
There is vacancies at Willowglen. Late entries will be accepted, if you are quick.
Steve Curtis TLCC.