CCDA external roll cage rules

[WICKED]

I know of an MQ you could get plenty of NB pipe from.............people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.......



Thanks for an intelligent reply On the exo issues Steve.

My exo is 32nb with pieces of 25nb. My exo was build before the CCDA rules came out in 05.
I never commented on tube or pipe.

[Zookstock]

ahhhhh....... It feels like home again.

I miss the dysfunction of this place....

I'm glad a first post back could be in a prestigious thread like this.....

Matt - Pot calling the kettle black, I don't miss seeing your posts on facebook since you blocked me - I do however enjoy seeing everyone else slandering you afterwards though. How fast are you going to do across the desert at KOH this year? Keep up enlightened.
VWDave - hahahaha - you have some shit points and some valid points - I love that you stir up guys like this ^^^^^^^^
Bad Line - Lets catch up for a beer soon....


Love,

Dave.

[V.W.Dave]

Dave why would have ago at Rob...

Matt, Rob is a mate of mine he well and he understood what i was saying. It had nothing against him at all.

We only dislike your smart ass no it all crap that dribbles from your mouth

As for all my dislikes at no point in my life have i ever cared about how much I was liked or disliked. I know where I stand and have no problem with it. The funny thing is I intentionally came into this thread just to ster you up. And it worked. My second intention was to get the likes of Pricey or Pete to comment and look what I did.

Have a read of a few other threads on here Matt. I was simply bringing people out of the woodwork for the fun of it. Thanks for helping.

[GRIMACE]

So much man love.

[evanstaniland]

Unless you want to move to QLD as they still allow black pipe as cages...

So exactly how much stronger is a cage built from ERW than a cage built from pipe?

Ask anyone who has bent both pipe and proper cage material and they will tell you the proper tube is so much more difficult to bend with a manual bender than the pipe. Kinda gives you the answer right there.

Hmmm I wouldn't say tube is harder to bend than NB pipe.... The hardest stuff I've bent was high mpa seamless 40nb.

Also seen Phil's new tube exo don't a lot easier than his old NB one.

That aside it's what the rules say. If you don't like don't compete, not that hard to digest!

[sprungupcruiser]

Unless you want to move to QLD as they still allow black pipe as cages...

So exactly how much stronger is a cage built from ERW than a cage built from pipe?

Ask anyone who has bent both pipe and proper cage material and they will tell you the proper tube is so much more difficult to bend with a manual bender than the pipe. Kinda gives you the answer right there.

Hmmm I wouldn't say tube is harder to bend than NB pipe.... The hardest stuff I've bent was high mpa seamless 40nb.

Also seen Phil's new tube exo don't a lot easier than his old NB one.

That aside it's what the rules say. If you don't like don't compete, not that hard to digest!

I agree with this, I've bent 1.75" with the 2.6mm wall (or whatever it is) and 32nb with 3.2mm wall and 8 can't say I noticed a great deal of difference. I thought the reason behind using the higher grade tube was the consistency of wall thickness over the entire tube, where the pipe is more likely to have variations in wall thickness.

[WICKED]

My understanding is that NB isn't regulated by a standard where as erw has a min standard.

[evanstaniland]

Seamless NB would you'd think

[pricey]

Yes the consistency is the key. But you're comparing 2.6mm to 3.2mm. Bend the 3.0mm 350mpa tube it'll be a different story.

Also what is a tad odd is that with the cage rules that we run under states "MINIMUM of 2.5mm wall thickness". People see that and think that's what they HAVE to use. Ive had people carrying on like a right sook that "it dents too easy". All we have ever said is that's the minimum thickness allowed, not what you have to use! It does come in different thicknesses people, if you choose to run it over the available 3.0mm then so be it.

Its a little disappointing that (not in this thread but others ive read) people whine and complain regarding rollcage materials, that they cost too much etc when they are more than happy to fork out more for a set of alloy beadlocks or coilovers but not the safety aspect of the vehicle.

We will update as soon as we hear back from CCDA.

[V.W.Dave]

Pricey,
A real question.
The likes of Dave Camps old rig being made of the correct material but to small. Micheal Sweeney rig being made of NB. Both of these cars are a few years old and very proven cars that both get entered into comps on a regular bases. Both have been rolled numerous times and both of them have never had any issues with cage strength. If you look at Sweeneys zook up close the main b-pillar and a-pillar look unmarked and in perfect condition.

For vehicles like these is there or will there be any kind of "grandfathering" or exception made seeing as they are proven cages?

[johnsy86]

Why should an exception be made for 1 or 2 cars when all the new enternats and some old have bite the bullet and changed rigs or done redisgns to encorporate the correct material? Just my 2c.

[pricey]

Campys old rig (now Ethan's) has been re-caged.

[mkpatrol]

Its a little disappointing that (not in this thread but others ive read) people whine and complain regarding rollcage materials, that they cost too much etc when they are more than happy to fork out more for a set of alloy beadlocks or coilovers but not the safety aspect of the vehicle.

Welcome to my world........

[Ice]

Guys just a general comment,

These rules are minimum spec for your safety and those around you. yes they are being enforced so we all have the chance to continue doing this in the future.

If you would like to argue on whats stronger or not perhaps look into doing a double degree on mech engineering and then metallurgy and volunteer to help CCDA

Im not an expert in either but have a rudimentary understanding of both through my own education and experience within the steel and manufacturing industries.

Metallurgy is a science, there are so many variables in steel manufacture. even 10 degrees of temp difference can cause tons of material to go to scrap.
This forum will never cover it all

to put it simply would you rather have the right tube when your rig is rolling upside down or having that split second to think i used the wrong pipe as the
pipe fails and your roof is crushing in towards you or a passenger in your rig ?

but hey you saved a few $$$ and farked it up for everyone.... and to top it off your bent cage is farked now too.

yes my old exo cage did comply however i am still putting an internal in now as i have the chance to do it, quit bitching about it and get on with building!

[pricey]

Pricey,
A real question.
The likes of Dave Camps old rig being made of the correct material but to small. Micheal Sweeney rig being made of NB. Both of these cars are a few years old and very proven cars that both get entered into comps on a regular bases. Both have been rolled numerous times and both of them have never had any issues with cage strength. If you look at Sweeneys zook up close the main b-pillar and a-pillar look unmarked and in perfect condition.

For vehicles like these is there or will there be any kind of "grandfathering" or exception made seeing as they are proven cages?

So let me get this straight...
For a few years you have accused us of showing preferential treatment to certain teams, which has never happened and will never happen while Pete, Tony and myself are in charge, but now you are asking us to give preferential treatment to a mate of yours?
Are you for real?

[turbo gu]

Its a little disappointing that (not in this thread but others ive read) people whine and complain regarding rollcage materials, that they cost too much etc when they are more than happy to fork out more for a set of alloy beadlocks or coilovers but not the safety aspect of the vehicle.

Welcome to my world........

Come on its got to look cool when you cruise thru coles!

Its in the rules of the governing body! If you dont like it go create your own comp/governing body etc!
That said I think the CCDA should have had a set of EXO cages drawings/rules by now!

[pricey]

Its a little disappointing that (not in this thread but others ive read) people whine and complain regarding rollcage materials, that they cost too much etc when they are more than happy to fork out more for a set of alloy beadlocks or coilovers but not the safety aspect of the vehicle.

Welcome to my world........

I've been in your world for a while mate. I've been saying this for a few years now.....

[pricey]

Its a little disappointing that (not in this thread but others ive read) people whine and complain regarding rollcage materials, that they cost too much etc when they are more than happy to fork out more for a set of alloy beadlocks or coilovers but not the safety aspect of the vehicle.

Welcome to my world........

Come on its got to look cool when you cruise thru coles!

Its in the rules of the governing body! If you dont like it go create your own comp/governing body etc!
That said I think the CCDA should have had a set of EXO cages drawings/rules by now!

We're working on it Charles. As you can imagine its a very involved process....

[turbo gu]

Its a little disappointing that (not in this thread but others ive read) people whine and complain regarding rollcage materials, that they cost too much etc when they are more than happy to fork out more for a set of alloy beadlocks or coilovers but not the safety aspect of the vehicle.

Welcome to my world........

Come on its got to look cool when you cruise thru coles!

Its in the rules of the governing body! If you dont like it go create your own comp/governing body etc!
That said I think the CCDA should have had a set of EXO cages drawings/rules by now!

We're working on it Charles. As you can imagine its a very involved process....

Yeah I could imagin but CCDA has been involved with TT since 2005 and Toperi for a couple of years. Long time on their side to come up with rules.

[brad 93hilux]

Ah the stooge season has begun!
Good to see you back Tex, I love reading all your informative, well spelt and well punctuated posts that are full of valuable knowledge at this time of year. You never let us down, especially when TT is mentioned by someone.

Tex, in NSW comps tend to follow what we are aiming to achieve, which is a safer sport. Yes it's been frustrating for those who are trying to get a solid answer out of CCDA but we believe we are on the right track working with them to get some clarity with the cage rules. What is virtually impossible is to write a set of rules that applies equally to each make and model. All we are trying to do is improve on what we have and eliminate more grey areas. If you want to try cause shit and bag the fawk out of what we do then feel free, it's expected by now. At least we are out there trying to improve the safety and professionalism of the sport.

Brad we are in the process working with CCDA to get a set of drawings and specs for various styles of exo and truggy style cages to try eliminate grey areas of the rules as its well documented there are no specs/diagrams of an exo cage or Truggy build. Hopefully we have some news shortly.

At the end of the day all we are trying to do is ensure people are building better designed and safer vehicles. If we didn't care we would just say run whatever. The rules will never be perfect.

We will always have our critics, with you being without doubt #1 Tex, but at least we're out there doing something constructive and positive to the sport.

Didn't this get off topic a bit, but i guess it shows how much we really need a better defined set of rules/ guide lines to follow.

Thanks for the info, and i wouldn't use NB pipe any way as i have a jd2 bender with a 1 3/4 die and notcher at home..
To me personally im not going to compete at TT and about the highest level will be Toperi the rest im looking at is opposite lock challenge (will be outlaw) and willowglen again.

I would like to make a removable Exo out of 1 3/4 CDS using the cromo roll cage tube joiners like low range sells and have them used in the tube bar i have and hoop over the back of the cab (all CDS tube) but the way i read it is the a and b pillar hoops have to be one consistant piece which will mean it won't be removable due to the shape of the cab.

As it is now i have no cage and have had a few close calls over the years, im tempted to make a Exo segmented (joiners) out of the correct tube and follow the rest of the rules that are there as i would like the Exo to protect the body and protect me incase of a severe roll over.

Just unsure with all the grey areas as to make it fully compliant means i really have to start towing it places rather then driving it to events/ social runs.

[V.W.Dave]

Pricey,
A real question.
The likes of Dave Camps old rig being made of the correct material but to small. Micheal Sweeney rig being made of NB. Both of these cars are a few years old and very proven cars that both get entered into comps on a regular bases. Both have been rolled numerous times and both of them have never had any issues with cage strength. If you look at Sweeneys zook up close the main b-pillar and a-pillar look unmarked and in perfect condition.

For vehicles like these is there or will there be any kind of "grandfathering" or exception made seeing as they are proven cages?

So let me get this straight...
For a few years you have accused us of showing preferential treatment to certain teams, which has never happened and will never happen while Pete, Tony and myself are in charge, but now you are asking us to give preferential treatment to a mate of yours?
Are you for real?

Did I say anything at all last year??? Not a f*#king thing on any forum. The only post I put up about it was one on Facebook with the picture of the OPW 40 that read V.W.Dave doesn't agree. Then 2 days later it was found that Camp won and all I posted was "WOW Hahahaha what a joke" nothing more. two and three years ago I did my fair share because some one needed to. Since then I got over it now I just like to ster the $#it out of you guys because it always gets a good reaction. If I pull one of your strings surely a second or third will pop up. You lot never disappoint.

I am not asking you to do anything other then answer a question... It was just a simple question not prompted by anyone just a question for my own knowledge. I was just asking to ask.

[pricey]

Pricey,
A real question.
The likes of Dave Camps old rig being made of the correct material but to small. Micheal Sweeney rig being made of NB. Both of these cars are a few years old and very proven cars that both get entered into comps on a regular bases. Both have been rolled numerous times and both of them have never had any issues with cage strength. If you look at Sweeneys zook up close the main b-pillar and a-pillar look unmarked and in perfect condition.

For vehicles like these is there or will there be any kind of "grandfathering" or exception made seeing as they are proven cages?

So let me get this straight...
For a few years you have accused us of showing preferential treatment to certain teams, which has never happened and will never happen while Pete, Tony and myself are in charge, but now you are asking us to give preferential treatment to a mate of yours?
Are you for real?

Did I say anything at all last year??? Not a f*#king thing on any forum. The only post I put up about it was one on Facebook with the picture of the OPW 40 that read V.W.Dave doesn't agree. Then 2 days later it was found that Camp won and all I posted was "WOW Hahahaha what a joke" nothing more. two and three years ago I did my fair share because some one needed to. Since then I got over it now I just like to ster the $#it out of you guys because it always gets a good reaction. If I pull one of your strings surely a second or third will pop up. You lot never disappoint.

I am not asking you to do anything other then answer a question... It was just a simple question not prompted by anyone just a question for my own knowledge. I was just asking to ask.

Every now and then you come up with a valid criticism, but what you posted about Sweeny is laughable.
What a sad and pathetic life you have if all you want to do around this time is "ster" (it's actually stir) the shit out of us.

In answer to your ridiculous question. . . . . . No.

[pricey]

[quote="brad 93hiluxDidn't this get off topic a bit, but i guess it shows how much we really need a better defined set of rules/ guide lines to follow.

[/quote]

Trust me, we are trying. All I can say is we have been trying for a few years now...... It does get very frustrating and tiring but we believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Dover]

[quote="brad 93hiluxDidn't this get off topic a bit, but i guess it shows how much we really need a better defined set of rules/ guide lines to follow.

[/quote] Trust me, we are trying. All I can say is we have been trying for a few years now...... It does get very frustrating and tiring but we believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.[/quote]
Can I just ask why a competition as big and as well run as TTC hasn't gone out on their own and made their own set of rules rather than following that of CCDA??
Cheers Ben.

[pricey]

Oh and Tex, this is the last time I waste my time replying to your shit.

[ethann]

Campys old rig (now Ethan's) has been re-caged.

Where do I apply for dem padded courses?

[GRIMACE]

Oh and Tex, this is the last time I waste my time replying to your shit.

break ups on the Interweb are nasty!!! Grrrr!

[V.W.Dave]

What a sad and pathetic life you have if all you want to do around this time is "ster" (it's actually stir) the shit out of us.

I like it better as Ster it fits what I do and kind of fits my accent.

Pricey have you ever thought about entering your rig into TT??? I have been to a few social wheels and seen you drive a few times. I think a few people out there would love to see you compete at the next level.

[brooksy]

Both Sweeneys & Crampys were in worse shape than you think Tex.


brooksy

[Pal]

Well it is obvious the CCDA has no experience in building exo cages.

So some one should start a new thread here and get some good input from everyone into building an exo cage to a minimum standard to protect the occupants, not the truck.

Summarise it and submit it to the CCDA for a look.

If you lot don't submit drawings don't complain if their approved exo cage is" way off the mark"