Another Volvo Rangie

[DaveS3]

Whoaa....

That is the schnitz!!!

[DFND90]

Its threads like this one that make you question what you want to do to your landrover

Damn you all

Now im investigating volvo portals

[HSV Rangie]

very very nice.
workmanship is excellent.

regards
Michael.

[Barathrum]

Its threads like this one that make you question what you want to do to your landrover

Damn you all

Now im investigating volvo portals

i'm keen if you've got the money

[DFND90]

Now im investigating volvo portals

i'm keen if you've got the money

Yeah, i do... and Dougys shed!!

You can take a week off work to install them for me??

[DaveS3]

Bill...

Is your truck running a leafsprung rear end????

This picture "HYBRID 094.jpg" looks like it is??

If so with what setup?

Dave

[daddylonglegs]

I constructed the drop boxes using as many landrover parts as possible.
Each box contain 4 gears on two shafts The upper gears are 2 straight cut ones from series 3 transfercase intermediate gears, siamesed together for strength. The lower gears are 2 straight cut low range slider gears from series 1 transfer cases also siamesed. they are mounted on carriers made from old transfercase rear output shafts and supported on taper roller bearings which are Rangerover wheel hub bearings.The drop box casings are welded, fabricate steel. The bearing housings are made from old series 1,2 or 3 swivel balls. the rear inner top axles are series 3 Salisbury. The front inner top axles are aftermarket 24 spline RangeRover. The bottom stub shafts are custom made. The diff housings are Range Rover modified to turn the diff upside down. The front swivel housings are series 3 heavily reinforced internally to cope with the added leverage . the ratio at the hubs is 1.56:1 The ring and pinion is 3.54:1. Air lockers are fitted.
The front suspension is a 3link design plus panhard rod. the front coil springs are mounted on swing arms directly under the chassis and on mounts behind the axle tubes. 14 inch stroke adjustable shock absorbers are fitted.
The rear axle located by a triangulated tripod which is anchored to the original radius rod and "A" frame ball joint mounts and runs forward to attach to a crossmember via large single rubber bush . The rear springs are single tapered leaf (parabolic) with telescopic shackles on the rear and a swing down pivoting hanger at their front. The whole suspension system gives positive axle location and stable handling, yet still permits around 1.3 metres of axle articulation. Of course I had a graveyard full of old landrovers to source the parts from, otherwise the project would not have been at all feasible. Well thats about it really
Regards Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

Well all I can say is WOW!!!. And thanks for all the info.

But I still have a couple of questions... sorry but this is extremely interesting.

How did you spline the 24spline salisbury axles to the two siamesed intermediate gears? The hole for the intermediate gear bearings is too big. And what size and spline are the stub axles so they don't break with 270:1 after the crawler and the portal reduction???

Cheers, and thanks for all the info,

[daddylonglegs]

Isuzurover. Because I was working with a very limited budget of a couple of hundred dollars I pressed a machined billet into the intermediate gear bores and scotch pinned them with old intermediate bearing rollers. I then had them broached to 24splines. I have two sets of stub shafts. one set that are still fitted to the vehicle and coping well are also 24 spline and made from Hituff. These were left over from a previous 6x6 project. The other set I have had cutom made are 1.5 inches in diameter with 21 splines (LR 101 pattern) I have also modified a set of hubs with larger spindles to suit these shafts. I want to continue with the 24 spline shafts for now to see how long they will last and fit the larger components at a later date if i feel it is necessary. Of couse, Nothing I make could resist the torque multiplication that is possible with a 278:1 gear ratio, but this is a creeper gear for extremely slow speed over difficult or dangerous terrain and not really intended to provide an enormous torque increase at the wheels, although the potential is always there. Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

I like the couple of hundred dollars cost.

Do you think it would be possible to machine a 24 spline diff side gear down and fit it inside the gear? Since this would save the cost of broaching.

Did you look at making a 3/4 gear portal (non reversed direction) like MD makes now so you don't have to flip the fiffs? I know your method is the same as volvo and mog and lighter than a non reversed portal box.

Once again, thanks for the reply. I seriously want to make myself a set of these...

[daddylonglegs]

IsuzuRover. Funny you should suggest that. A gear set that I made up to carry as a spare, is made using a ground down 24 spline side gear. I only chose the other method when a friend of mine had access to a 24 spline broach and machine for a few days. I did consider the 3 and 4 gear -shaft options but rejected them on the grounds of complexity and the fact that I would not be able to swing the boxes in my old centre lathe. In keeping with the low budget restraints I did all machining and boring on that lathe and I reworked the gears and shafts on it too using a 115mm angle grinder attached to the tool post. All very agricultural yes, but you can acheive satisfactory results if you are prepared to take your time.
I don't know if you noticed from the photos but the wheels have almost 100% negative offset in order to bring the scrub radius back to reasonable limits. If you look at the distance between the trackrod ends(ball joints) and the centre of the tire it is misleading because I have flipped the steering arms from bottom to top to reverse the "Ackerman angle" This permits the outside wheel to turn sharper than the inside wheel when making a turn rather than the other way round. this improves the turning circle markedly. and gives a better feel to the steering in my opinion. Incidently, I have discovered a very good company in Melbourne called Hills heat treatment, who are able to anneal hardend gears and shafts so that you can rework them, and then reharden them to the original specification without shrinkage. other companies I have tried over the years always manage to shrink things when rehardening them. Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

Thanks for all the additional info Bill.

I didn't notice the negative offset on the wheels, but I noticed the flipped steering arms. It looks like you have RR axle tubes with series swivels bolted to them, is that right?

I have access to a large lathe and mill (and lots of old series parts), so should be able to do most of the work myself. Who are the company in Melbourne? could you please post or pm their details? What do you think about using second and/or third gears from a IIA gearbox in a 4-gear/4-shaft setup? The helical gears should be stronger and quieter shouldn't they... (I should check myself but I am in Germany at the moment and can't go and measure my gears).

Oh and what track are you running? about 60"?

[daddylonglegs]

Yes, they are series 3 swivels on Rangerover housings. I do not rate the Rangerover/110 swivels to be anywhere near strong enough for portals.
The standard series 3 ones are marginal too but because I am using CVjoints, that are supported in a bronze bush at the spindles I removed the roller bearing from the chrome ball that supported the old U J axle and machined a press in strengthening sleeve that I welded into the throat of the ball housings. The track width is 66 inches actually.
I would consider the helical gears unsuitable for that application due to heat generation, end thrust issues,and light construction.
Surprisingly the straight cut gears do not make any discernable noise or generate any appreciable heat in portal application, unlike that of transfercase application.
The company is Hills Heat Treatment in Bayswater Melbourne. I will post their phone number as soon as I find an old invoice.
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

Hopefully the last question Bill,

What did you have to do with the pinion oiling when the diff is uside down? Probably not as much of a problem with a spiral bevel Rover diff?? I have a rear salisbury so it may be a be a bit mre difficult to keep the pinion well oiled.

[Bush65]

Ben,
With portal reduction, the strength of rover ring and pinion is not so much of an issue. I know you have sals.

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben,
With portal reduction, the strength of rover ring and pinion is not so much of an issue. I know you have sals.

I know the R&P (and CV) strength is not an issue with the portal reduction - which is why I want to build portals - as well as the extra clearance - it is cheaper to build the portals than upgrade the CV's.

I have a rear Sals with maxi drive - so I think my plan at this stage is to flip the rear sals and install it in the front (with narrowed tubes and resplined outer axles - to 23 spline) - and then build a new flipped rear axle from another sals (with a 2nd MD locker). All that is cheaper than buying a single Rover Maxi-drive (and not much more than 1 ARB) - and the sals clearance issue is not an issue with portals.

All I have to solve is the problem of oiling the pinion, which shouldn't be insurmountable.

[daddylonglegs]

Ben. While I was building the portals I had nagging concerns about possible pinion bearing oiling problems, but once I had got the vehicle mobile I discovered the opposite problem. The pinion seal was being overwhelmed by the quantity of oil that the crownwheel was throwing at it and I had to put a restricter in the oil gallery and make a baffle plate similar to that behind the Salisbury pinion seal. I am not sure if the same thing would occur with Salisbury diffs. Volvo diffs have a spring loaded tube in the oil gallery that touches the outside surface of the crownwheel and scrapes oil into the pinion bearings. Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

Thanks again Bill, again you have answered my questions - I'm sure I can sort something out.

[ISUZUROVER]

What's the deal with the pics on this page. All the others seem to be back up???

[modman]

pics seem to be up now!!!!
david

[TuffRR]

pics seem to be up now!!!!

[modman]

my hair is not blonde

[ptl]

Hi,

I'm the owner of the car shown in the 1st post of this thread, and it's quite interesting to see pictures of it so far away...

Anyway, maybe you folks might be interested in for more details? Stop reading if Volvo portals in a RR sounds dull.

The starting point was '88 RRC with std 3.5 efi engine and ZF auto.

This is my car two years ago when I bought it



I found a pair of C303 axles in Sweden, and Offivaruste (http://www.offivaruste.com/) did the conversion work. In case you are interested in the Volvo axles or conversion work, pls. contact them.

The rear axle was quite straight-forward, the front axle required more work. The caster angle vs. pinion angle required new holes in the portal flange, it was tilted something like 20 degrees, and now caster and pinion angles are quite close to RRC original.

Original pinion angle in Volvo is quite horizontal, and now I have 6l (1½l originally in Volvo... ) oil in front axle, since I burned the outer pinion bearing two weeks ago, the root cause might have been the higher angle (lack of oil) or the bearing might have been old. Anyway, Volvo spare part service turned out the be more than excellent, new spare parts within 24h at very reasonable cost.

It has original RRC suspension and propshafts, master brake cylinder is from some drum-brake land rover. And the beast is 100% street legal in Finland, in the country known for very strict rules!

BTW the drum brakes suck, I miss so much for the original RR discs, after driving in wet conditions (=swamp & mud) the car has no more brakes, or braking makes the car to turn (jump sideways?) very much, so I'm looking for disc-brake conversion later this year.

More pictures e.g. in here:

http://stiletti.wipsl.com/gallery/album90/ (latest safari to Lappland)

Please let me know if you need more info or pictures. Some pictures of the Volvo C303 portal axles also in here:

http://www.itsajeep.org/PhotoPost/showg ... &ppuser=35

-Paavo / paavo.leinonen@wipsl.com

[daddylonglegs]

Well done Paavo, do your diffs still have the spring loaded brass oil scrapers for lubricating the pinion bearings ? Of the six diffs I stripped down only two still had them. The others were presumably lost by the Malaysion army workshops. I do not think that they are absolutely necessary anyway.

maybe your front diff is tilted a little too much? or as you suspect, the pinion bearing was already bad.Some of these are already nearly 30 years old after all.
If Finlands vehicle modification laws are as strict as those in Victoria Australia, then I doubt that you would be able to convert to disc brakes and still remain legal. When I looked at doing the conversion I determined that the wheels would need to be altered to increase the positive offset by 60mm to clear the calipers. Vicroads only permit an increase of 25mm.
I didn't try it on the Volvo brakes but on my Landy I opened up the drain holes in the corner of the brake drums to 13mm and chamfered the holes to prevent cracking. and the brakes work quite well when wet.
I did read a couple of years ago that a bloke in the US whose Bronco was in the Top Truck Challenge ,changed from four wheel discs to four wheel drums. The drums were extensively drilled on the braking surface and he claimed they "stopped like glue" were far superior to his previous setup. I think that Bronco came second in the stopping test on that competition. I do have a spare set of six cylinder brake drums so i might try it one day. Bill.

[ptl]

Hi,

I have opened the front diff only so far, and it did have the "spring loaded brass oil scrapers for lubricating the pinion bearings". The diff is tilted upwards, but I hope the oil 300% overfill will cope with that...

But tilting less than that would have meant more work, now the new holes are next to the old ones (maybe 2mm or 0.1" between the holes), drilling the new holes closer to the originals would have required welding the old ones?

The disc brake conversion should not increase offset, or my can won't be street legal any more, Finnish rules allow 100mm (4") track width increase, and the std volvo axles are already 2.5" wider than the RRC originals, so I don't have too much left, and more offset would mean body work, too, now the rear tyres have just and just the room they need to articulate. Trimming the rear doors is not the easiest task I think, of one wants decent result.





The initial plan by the offivaruste guys was to use range rover discs and calipers, and maybe those are small enough to allow original offset in the volvo 16" rims.

Drilling the drums is of course an option, which I haven't had the time to implement yet, I have been quite busy with more urgent things (like piping the vacuum to the diff locks, re-building the front axle after the bearing melted etc.). Next big safari in on two weeks... :-)

Thanks for the feedback and good tips!

-Paavo

[daddylonglegs]

Paavo, I made up a drill jig to tilt the diff 15 degrees so that the pinion would be at the same angle as the original Rangerover. There are eight original bolt holes which means they are 45 degrees apart. 15 degrees is one third the distance between the bolt holes which is far enough away so that you do not have to weld up the original holes. I think Nam may have already posted photos of his modified axles somewhere on this forum. if not i am sure that he would do so, and you could see that there is plenty of distance between old and new bolt holes. Regards Bill.

[ptl]

Hi,

this picture shows how much my front pinion angle has been tilted (given that the caster angle is close to original, I think it is):



Anybody guess how many degrees that is?

-Paavo

[red90]

12.7435

[daddylonglegs]

I agree with RedRover that it would have been around 13 degrees which is not excessive for these diffs as far as pinion bearing lubrication is concerned, so I think your bearing may have been faulty, possibly gone rusty from condensation when lying around in the wreckers yard.
Bill.

[ISUZUROVER]

I have another question which I thought I would tack onto this thread - that Bill or John B should be able to answer.

if I make 4-gear portals (2 intermediate gears) instead of 2-gear portals like Bill, does that mean I can use gears that are half the width (i.e. not use doubled gears like Bill) since there should be roughly twice the number of teeth in contact with each gear at any one time? Assuming both setups would have the same overall reduction.