80 series front diff

Post by **Carl Coight** » Wed May 19, 2004 11:55 am

Just wondering how tuff the GXL 80 series front diff is?
What breaks?
How often?
Can they take a pizzelen with locker and 37" tyres?
Thanks guys, Carl

Post by **80UTE** » Wed May 19, 2004 12:35 pm

it is the weak point in the drive train ive run 37 Procomps and 38 TSL Swampers on my missus HDJ80 with factory lockers (C&P is the same) but treated it well and dont do any reversing where ther is heaps of load on the front diff. Ive personally seen 5 front diffs break and its always been reversing out of bogs or uphill backwards. In my 80Ute i built a new housing and fitted a GQ front 9' hi-pinion diff , air locked with Toyota side gears, 80 axles,CV's, hubs and brakes and have hammered it real hard with the BB Chev . Only ever broken one CV (at the spines in the FWH). Ive built these front diffs for 4 others and they too have never had a problem.
Wally

Post by **Pesky Pete** » Wed May 19, 2004 6:10 pm

Carl Coight wrote:Just wondering how tuff the GXL 80 series front diff is?
What breaks?
How often?
Can they take a pizzelen with locker and 37" tyres?
Thanks guys, Carl

Gidday Carl

Not a hope with 37's on a standard diff. I broke mine driving up Hilux hill at cruiser park. Got a wheel lift and when the wheel came in contact with track again BANG. 5 teeth of crown wheel, and one off pinion. This is what normally breaks. I was only running 33's too. THey might last if you baby it, but give it a hard time on 37's and it will break in no time.

As Wally said normally they break when loaded up in reverse. Who knows, maybe I had already stressed the diff previously as I had done a lot of towing and shiat in reverse.

Cheers

Pete

Post by **slowhilux** » Wed May 19, 2004 6:56 pm

Hey carl, i got 35" BFg Muds on mine (well, 315/75/16's :roll:

), and have never had a problem. I have picked up wheels both locked and unlocked, sometimes hitting the deck with heaps of traction, and its never had a complaint. I still dont have any CV noise :lol:

. I have also reversed up only a few hills in low range, but i have been very careful when doing so, as like the other guys said, they are known for breaking in reverse.

I can see that i have just jinxed myself, cos the next time i go out, it will destroy something in the front end

Post by **Carl Coight** » Thu May 20, 2004 5:17 am

80UTE wrote:it is the weak point in the drive train ive run 37 Procomps and 38 TSL Swampers on my missus HDJ80 with factory lockers (C&P is the same) but treated it well and dont do any reversing where ther is heaps of load on the front diff. Ive personally seen 5 front diffs break and its always been reversing out of bogs or uphill backwards. In my 80Ute i built a new housing and fitted a GQ front 9' hi-pinion diff , air locked with Toyota side gears, 80 axles,CV's, hubs and brakes and have hammered it real hard with the BB Chev . Only ever broken one CV (at the spines in the FWH). Ive built these front diffs for 4 others and they too have never had a problem.
Wally

Hey Wally.
Whats it worth for you to do up a front diff?

Post by **80UTE** » Thu May 20, 2004 10:53 am

I need i housing to cut up for the swivels balls, radius arm mounts, spring/shock mounts. Bent housings are fine as straight ones are worth to much to cut up. To build the housing and machine $1000.00 keep in mind you need a GQ front diff centre (4.11-1) $200-$400 if your fitting a ARB locker $1000-$1100 ARB Toyota side gears ~$300 (match splines) Then fit all your axle c/v's swivels brakes hubs etc etc. I have fitted Toyota side gears to a STD open GQ front diff centre
Wally

Post by **RUFF** » Thu May 20, 2004 6:29 pm

I dont know what you guys are doing wrong but i run an 80series 4.1 high pinion in the front of my Hilux running 38" TSLs dual cases V8 and a heavy right foot and a lot of hard driving and have not damaged one yet. However i would not try to reverse when the front is loaded up as i know this is where the weak point is.

We also run a 4.3HP in the front of Sams tube buggy with both 37"BFG Competition Crawlers and a set of 38"TSLs that are full of water and have done no damage at all.

I would say either the gear set ups have been wrong or they have been damaged in reverse before letting go driving forward.

Carl i have one Question. Do you realy think you are going to be driving a Rangie harder than either myself or Sam?

And Wally i understand why you have gone the route you have concidering the big block that is driving these axles.

Post by **bubs** » Thu May 20, 2004 8:46 pm

I have to agree with RUFF on this one

Why do you guys say the 80 series front end is weak - there are a number of people who beat on there hiluxs with hy pinon 80 series diffs all day long with longfields etc and dont have much drama - how can this be a big problem :?:

Post by **NICK** » Thu May 20, 2004 9:20 pm

RUFF wrote:I dont know what you guys are doing wrong but i run an 80series 4.1 high pinion in the front of my Hilux running 38" TSLs dual cases V8 and a heavy right foot and a lot of hard driving and have not damaged one yet. However i would not try to reverse when the front is loaded up as i know this is where the weak point is.

i gave you an HZJ75 front diff, an 80s would have done 1000 times the kilometers and the case harding on the gears would be worn, the bearings would be fawked (eg bubs diff) were as the 75's is alot younger, your right they are the same diff ( one is 4.1 and the other is 4.11 is you really want to get into it :finger:

) but i believe it is the extra wear caused buy the fulltime 4x4 but kills them.

NICK

Post by **80UTE** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:41 am

As i said ive seen 5 go but always in reverse with the front loaded. With the Nav events we do Vic i need to know i will make to the end and nothing can be overlooked and if i can be improved for performance or reliability well you do it. We could be doing 400-500 km over 24 hrs and if the diff goes it all over go home.

Wally

Post by **slosh** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:26 am

80UTE maybe you are thinking these diffs are weak when they are under a great big 80 series Cruiser with all the fruit. There is a lot of weight for that little diff to move.

The other guys seem to be looking at it from a lightweight Hilux drivers point of view, where maybe the diff is plenty strong.

As for Pesky Pete, maybe he does lots of reverse burnouts??

Post by **Pesky Pete** » Fri May 21, 2004 1:02 pm

slosh wrote:
As for Pesky Pete, maybe he does lots of reverse burnouts??

Maybe Pesky Pete just drives hard. :shock:

Seriously though. The question was asked about peoples experience with 80 series front diffs, and myself, and a few guys I know have all broken them and each time going up hills. normally going hard too

BUT...... There is a lot of difference between a 80 series diff in a hilux and an 80 series diff in an 80 series. I gave mine a load of crap before it broke, and have given the near gears as much of a hard time and not yet broken them (now Ive done it, they will break within the week)

Post by **Carl Coight** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:17 pm

Thanks guys!
I'll just get a complete 80 front and take my chances.
It's going into a Rangie so i think it will be strong enough. :lol:

Post by **dow50r** » Sat May 22, 2004 9:36 am

Gday Carl
The weakness in them is reversing. You load up the angled teeth on them and they spread appart and start chewing.
Putting an air locker in them strengthens them by 10 times, the original hemi is a single pin and there is windows either side to get gears out. Thats where they flex and teeth come appart. The loka is alot stronger setup.
Andrew

Post by **DNA Off Road** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:17 am

C’mon lads – a bit of common sense, no full noise reversing with the locker in when it’s loaded up on the front. Be selective when you lock the front in – only when you need to and drive it hard but drive it using your big head so it stays together. If you cannot restrain yourself go get something more bullet proof.

:cool:

Post by **dow50r** » Sat May 22, 2004 11:54 am

80UTE wrote:As i said ive seen 5 go but always in reverse with the front loaded. With the Nav events we do Vic i need to know i will make to the end and nothing can be overlooked and if i can be improved for performance or reliability well you do it. We could be doing 400-500 km over 24 hrs and if the diff goes it all over go home.

Wally

Gday
Were these diffs std centred (locked or not doesnt matter) or air locked?
The air locker is heaps stronger where the ring bolts to and resists spreading.
Andrew

Post by **80UTE** » Mon May 24, 2004 8:03 am

3 of them had ARB's, 1 lockrite and 1 std.
:lol:

Post by **dow50r** » Mon May 24, 2004 8:22 am

MMmmm Bugger.
They must have been having fun up until the teeth fell out :twisted:

Andrw

Post by **Pesky Pete** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:57 am

Mine had a Lockrite in it and mates was ARB. The other one I have seen fail was a Detroit no spin but I think that they are complete centres and use their own CW&P anyway.

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