wheel balancing questions ( CSA Ranger RV rim problems )

[murcod]

Should it be any harder to balance a wheel by using the self adhesive weights and hammered on ones on only the inside of the rim with none hammered onto the outside viewable rim edge?

I'm having issues with the local Cooper dealer not being able to balance my CSA Ranger rims (15 x 7 steel sunraysia's) and 235/70R15 A/T- which to me shouldn't be hard to balance.... I asked them to not use the hammer on weight on the outside edge, and they're blaming that for not being able to balance them.

I was getting lots of steering wheel shake at 65km/h, now after rebalancing and rotation, I'm getting it at 70-80km/h and twice as bad.

They also left a wheelnut loose on one wheel (not even finger tight!) and the centre cap only half pushed on another.... Luckily I spotted those almost straight away...

[bazzle]

Bob Jane balance mine with a finger balancer (Bronze or Silver balance) and their good. They use stick on on the Inside only.
35 x12.5 Cooper Sts on 8x15 rims. One tyre wouldnt run true and wobbled after a while and Cooper replaced it.

Sometimes weight has to be as far out as the equal and opposite inbalance. If putting on clip on weights fixes it then try putting stick on your self in line with clip ons if you really Need too?

Bazzle

[MQ080]

Stick on weights are a pain because the computer doesn't know exactly how far in on the rim you are going to place them as every rim is shaped differently... consequently you can just be chasing the weight over and over.

Ask them to either spin the tyres on the rims i.e. rubber 180 degrees to the rim (doesn't move at all). If they're going to do this you can also check the wheel by itself on the machine (thus eliminating one factor). Just a couple of methods, depends how far you want to take this. Some tyres come from the factory with massive runout and as they wear it is accentuated.

[murcod]

I could live it it originally- only a slight wheel movement at 65km/h which I've put up with for 6500km. But now it's ridiculous.

I don't want the weights hammered on the rim edge as they were brand new and it's only going to cause unsightly rust problems (particularly when Cooper want the tyres rebalanced every 10000km for their warranty). That way I look at it is alloy wheels don't have the outer lip for the weights so it shouldn't be a problem (?)

I'm beginning to wonder if they even balanced them; I think they just swapped the front to back and said that'll do......

[blackmav]

get an on car balance. if they come up good look elsewhere.sounds like a VERY well trodden path on this site.

[MQ080]

I'm beginning to wonder if they even balanced them......

Old tricks include putting new weights back in the same old places rather than testing them on the balancer, or even cleaning your old weights and saying after a good 1/2hr of you not knowing that your car is in the air for no real reason ..."all done"

[RUFF]

If the guy who is balancing them has no real experiance with balancing a wheel without the weights on the outside then they are wasting their time even trying. it takes practice to get this right as every rim style needs to be done differently.
If ther machine says it wants 10g on the outside then you need to be able to work out how much it needs when fitting it in further on the rim as the 10g will not be right unless it is fitted to the outside.

I have had Passenger car mags balanced with only clip on weights on the inside of the rim as if stick on ones were used they were visable through the spokes.

It is possible to do it the way they are trying but obviously they dont know what they are doing. Try another tyre shop and see how you go. If they get it right then take the recept to your cooper dealer and try and get a refund.

[dumbdunce]

it is not usually possible to achieve a dynamic (2 plane) balance using weights on one side of the rim only. a lot of the time with passenger car tyres you only need a static (one plane) balance to make them drive ok but with wider, larger diameter 4WD tyres it gets more difficult. A static balance treats the wheel/tyre assembly as a flat disk, a dynamic balance treats it as a true three dimensional assembly. the out of balance forces generated by a rotating body have a magnitude, direction and a point of application along the axis of the assembly. basically a static balance addresses only the magnitude and direction of the imbalance but ignores where along the axis the force is acting. to address the point of application, weights on both planes (side of the rim) are required.

this may or may not help.

http://www.trucktires.com/us_eng/librar ... doctor.asp

ALSO

find out if your wobble is due to to imbalance, or out-of round, which is common to many tyres. if a tyre is out of round, no matter how good it's balanced, it will ride awfully. you can balance an egg but you can't make it round.

[murcod]

Thanks for that link.

I have noticed it appears to be worse on roads with a bit of camber and when the steering wheel is slightly turned. I'll ring the joint back this arvo and see what they've got to say before I go spend more money elsewhere.....

[murcod]

Ba***rds....

Rang them back and told them about the balance problem and wheel nut not being tightened etc. Said to bring it in and they'd have a look- get there and I could hear the guy I talked to on the phone telling the manager about the loose wheel nut as I walked into the showroom. The manager came up to me and said the only option was to use the hammer on weights on the outside edge.... no apologies about the wheel nut until I mentioned it to him.

So reluctantly I agreed to the rebalance saying I didn't want the weights like that as the powder coating would get chipped off and cause rust. Anyway get the vehicle home and the d***heads have not just had one go at balancing them, but two- large amounts of power coat chipped off the edge where they'd obviously had the first go and decided to try again.

Can't wait to have that done every 10000km for the stupid Cooper warranty. I still don't think they've got it balanced properly either!

[murcod]

Just an update on what's been happening.

Another Outerlimits member who deals with Cooper Tyres interstate contacted me after my last post and kindly offered assistance. He then got the ball rolling and the local dealer was suddenly interested in helping me (after handing the keys back last time and admitting there was still a problem.....) Obviously he'd had phone calls asking him what was going on!

Today I met with the SA Cooper Distributor who inspected the tyres and immediately decided to order me two new tyres for the front! (One had a large amount of weight on the rim to balance it, so he's suspicious of that tyre.) They are going to fit the new tyres on Saturday and he is personally coming in to watch the local dealer fit/ balance them.

Very impressed with the back up service from Coopers.

[L,C 60]

go to your local K mart tyre & auto store they can balance them properly with out all the hassels
i know this as i work for them in melbourne
they also have a nation wide warranty

[murcod]

Another update as it appears my problem is finally fixed!!

When the replacment tyres arrived it was noticed one of the new steel rims I'd bought had a large amount of run out (sideways wobble) when run up on the balancing machine. The local Coopers distributor noticed this and suggested that was the fault.

So two new rims were ordered, but they also had a similar problem. The tyre dealer arranged a deal for me with CSA and I swapped my steel Ranger RV rims over for some new CSA alloys and paid the extra. Not too bad a deal considering the steel rims have been on my vehicle now for probably six months.

The good news is the alloys have cured the problem, and without weights being placed on the outside wheel lip!

So just to clear everything up there was absolutely nothing wrong with my Cooper tyres. The CSA Ranger RV steel rims- well buyer beware ; pay the extra for their alloys.

A big thanks to Ryano and particularly Steve the local Cooper Distributor for their help. And of course a big plug for Cooper Tyres for providing the best after sales service possible.

[MQ080]

go to your local K mart tyre & auto store they can balance them properly with out all the hassels
i know this as i work for them in melbourne
they also have a nation wide warranty

Can you speak on behalf of every employee? I would say it depends on plenty of factors such as the fitter's attitude on the day. I used to work for them also and I would say go nowhere near them, as they don't (always) do things properly. My experience vs your experience; is yours anymore valid than mine?

Murcod, I would suggest it may take many trips to many diffrent fitters to find one with a certain level of expertise that your problem requires. However I would try a dedicated tyre mob first to narrow thisngs down.

[murcod]

It was an Tyrepower dealer I bought them through. He came good in the end- just required a bit of prodding from Cooper to get him more interested in fixing the problem.

I should have just bought alloys in the first place.... live and learn I guess.

[-Scott-]

Murcod

The CSA Rangers - do they look anything like the rims in the pic below? I've had trouble getting my Goodyears (bought second hand) properly balanced, and after the last round the store I bought the rims from tells me there is a little run-out in one tyre. I was picturing out-of-round, but if the rim isn't true, then that could be the problem.

Scott

[murcod]

G'day Scott, yes that looks like them..... if they're a CSA wheel then they will be the Ranger RV. From memory mine had a blue and red stripe running around the outside of the rim edge.

Here's the only pic of mine I can find ATM:

[-Scott-]

From memory mine had a blue and red stripe running around the outside of the rim edge.

Yep, that's what I've got!

Looks like another trip to the tyre place...

Thanks,

Scott

[murcod]

Try and get them replaced with a different brand (eg. Speedy Desert Rat) or upgrade to alloys like I did. Don't bother getting them replaced with the same- you'll most likely find the new ones are just as bad like I did.

[bazzle]

I use ROH Trak 2

Bazzle